8 ms·

Another reason is the horrible interest rates. Wealthfront and Robinhood are offering "bank" accounts that have 1.8% APY that is FDIC insured. If your business

Another reason is the horrible interest rates. Wealthfront and Robinhood are offering "bank" accounts that have 1.8% APY that is FDIC insured. If your business has a high turnover month-to-month, that money used to pay your bills can accumulate interest.

toomuchtodo 7y ago
I bank with a shitty national bank (long story, need access to Zelle/P2P transfers). My emergency fund is 6 months expenses, low 5 figures. 150-200 basis points of interest annually is trivial when 1 or 2 wire fees ($20) to get access to those funds same day blows away all of interest gains over 6-12 months. If interest rate mattered to folks, more would move to providers offering higher rates (you see this sprouting up with Credit Karma, Personal Capital, and other fintech startups offering cash management accounts because they're making a fee for getting deposits to underlying banks hungry for them). But that doesn't seem to be the case. Which is unfortunate, because it should be not too difficult to offer a checking account with check access, ATM access, unlimited transactions, P2P payments, mobile deposits, and interest bearing (brokerages do it living off the float [1]). Sidenote: This focuses on personal accounts. Brex's Cash Management account seems to be a great biz banking option for those who qualify. No affiliation. Banking infra in the US sucks, which is why everyone has to be a bank. [1] https://www.kalzumeus.com/2019/6/26/how-brokerages-make-money/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2019/6/26/how-brokerages-make-mone...
- thomaslangston 7y ago
  If you have 6 months expenses saved, you don't need same day access. You keep 1 month in an immediate access account and 5 in the high yield savings account.
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    I have had to come up with a dollar amount worth several months of expenses on very short notice (same day, life is unpredictable). YMMV, but there's no reason I shouldn't be able to get those funds within seconds (if I'm adequately authenticated). With a wire, I can get it same day (if executed by ~3pm eastern). I shouldn't need to pay for a wire, or talk to a human unless a fraud signal was detected. I'm not a hedge fund seeking tens of millions of dollars of liquidity of a cash equivalent in a moment. These dollar amounts are trivial (<$100k). Financial services users should be able to have access to and be able to move their funds through financial plumbing inexpensively and rapidly. Fix the plumbing, raise the bar with regulations on financial services providers to commodify the offerings.
    - cstoner 7y ago
      > I have had to come up with a dollar amount worth several months of expenses on very short notice (same day, life is unpredictable). That seems like a perfect use case for using a credit card to cover the expense and then pay yourself back when your money moves out of the savings account. I have trouble imagining a case outside of a hostage situation where you would need access to your emergency fund same day.
      - toomuchtodo 7y ago
        Two examples: Auto purchase where there was an issue with the banking partner of the vehicle manufacturer. Another is a real estate transaction. Bailing friends out of jail is always cheap (~$500), but not everyone takes credit cards (no chance for the first two scenarios). Fundamentally, I should not have to explain why I would desire immediate access to my own cash reserves at a moment's notice to excuse broken financial infrastructure.
        cstoner 7y ago
        Your examples seem like cases that can easily be handled by a checking account. > Fundamentally, I should not have to explain why I would desire immediate access to my own cash reserves at a moment's notice to excuse broken financial infrastructure. Yes, if you are investing in less-liquid assets to get a better RoI then you absolutely do. If you don't like the terms then you are free to keep your cash in your checking account.
        tlb 7y ago
        Most people are reluctant to accept large personal checks for one-shot transactions. Most people selling cars on Craigslist won't just take a personal check, for instance. It depends a bit on how reputable you look. You can't write one as bail, or to get your car out of the impound lot.
        perl4ever 7y ago
- astura 7y ago
  If you have a checking account with the same bank you keep your emergency fund in then you can access the funds at any time with an online transfer and a check. (Discover & Ally offer checking accounts) It doesn't have to be your main checking account.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - acjohnson55 7y ago
    Same with Alliant Credit Union.
shaklee3 7y ago
I thought wealthfront and the like aren't exactly the same type of insurance. They don't put your money in a single account, and if you ever needed the insurance you have to go through a third party that made a deal with the actual banks.
- acjohnson55 7y ago
  With Robinhood, I understand cash is SIPC insured once it hits their systems, and then it is a couple of days until it is deposited in underlying accounts at their program banks, where it is FDIC insured. So it's something to consider when moving large amounts of money. Another thing is that these neobanks have withdrawal amount limits and ATM limits, and so they aren't a great choice for storing emergency funds.
  - briandear 7y ago
    > Another thing is that these neobanks have withdrawal amount limits and ATM limits Every French bank has these limits. I once had a French bank account that limited my debit card to €2500 in purchases in a month — for no good reason other than trying to limit access to my own money. Cash purchases over €1000 are also illegal in France. For the most ridiculous banking rules and limits, France is the place. My chase account in the other hand, I could withdrawal $100k in cash if I wanted. Still have a (high) debit card limit, but I can call them and immediately get it lifted for a specific transaction (such as buying a car.)
    - acjohnson55 7y ago
      Yeah, but for the neobanks, it's even more strict. You simply can't access all your money instantly. As far as I can tell, anyhow.

toomuchtodo 7y ago

I bank with a shitty national bank (long story, need access to Zelle/P2P transfers). My emergency fund is 6 months expenses, low 5 figures. 150-200 basis points of interest annually is trivial when 1 or 2 wire fees ($20) to get access to those funds same day blows away all of interest gains over 6-12 months. If interest rate mattered to folks, more would move to providers offering higher rates (you see this sprouting up with Credit Karma, Personal Capital, and other fintech startups offering cash management accounts because they're making a fee for getting deposits to underlying banks hungry for them). But that doesn't seem to be the case. Which is unfortunate, because it should be not too difficult to offer a checking account with check access, ATM access, unlimited transactions, P2P payments, mobile deposits, and interest bearing (brokerages do it living off the float [1]). Sidenote: This focuses on personal accounts. Brex's Cash Management account seems to be a great biz banking option for those who qualify. No affiliation. Banking infra in the US sucks, which is why everyone has to be a bank. [1] https://www.kalzumeus.com/2019/6/26/how-brokerages-make-money/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2019/6/26/how-brokerages-make-mone...

thomaslangston 7y ago
If you have 6 months expenses saved, you don't need same day access. You keep 1 month in an immediate access account and 5 in the high yield savings account.
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  I have had to come up with a dollar amount worth several months of expenses on very short notice (same day, life is unpredictable). YMMV, but there's no reason I shouldn't be able to get those funds within seconds (if I'm adequately authenticated). With a wire, I can get it same day (if executed by ~3pm eastern). I shouldn't need to pay for a wire, or talk to a human unless a fraud signal was detected. I'm not a hedge fund seeking tens of millions of dollars of liquidity of a cash equivalent in a moment. These dollar amounts are trivial (<$100k). Financial services users should be able to have access to and be able to move their funds through financial plumbing inexpensively and rapidly. Fix the plumbing, raise the bar with regulations on financial services providers to commodify the offerings.
  - cstoner 7y ago
    > I have had to come up with a dollar amount worth several months of expenses on very short notice (same day, life is unpredictable). That seems like a perfect use case for using a credit card to cover the expense and then pay yourself back when your money moves out of the savings account. I have trouble imagining a case outside of a hostage situation where you would need access to your emergency fund same day.
    - toomuchtodo 7y ago
      Two examples: Auto purchase where there was an issue with the banking partner of the vehicle manufacturer. Another is a real estate transaction. Bailing friends out of jail is always cheap (~$500), but not everyone takes credit cards (no chance for the first two scenarios). Fundamentally, I should not have to explain why I would desire immediate access to my own cash reserves at a moment's notice to excuse broken financial infrastructure.
      - cstoner 7y ago
        Your examples seem like cases that can easily be handled by a checking account. > Fundamentally, I should not have to explain why I would desire immediate access to my own cash reserves at a moment's notice to excuse broken financial infrastructure. Yes, if you are investing in less-liquid assets to get a better RoI then you absolutely do. If you don't like the terms then you are free to keep your cash in your checking account.
        tlb 7y ago
        Most people are reluctant to accept large personal checks for one-shot transactions. Most people selling cars on Craigslist won't just take a personal check, for instance. It depends a bit on how reputable you look. You can't write one as bail, or to get your car out of the impound lot.
        perl4ever 7y ago
astura 7y ago
If you have a checking account with the same bank you keep your emergency fund in then you can access the funds at any time with an online transfer and a check. (Discover & Ally offer checking accounts) It doesn't have to be your main checking account.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- acjohnson55 7y ago
  Same with Alliant Credit Union.

shaklee3 7y ago

I thought wealthfront and the like aren't exactly the same type of insurance. They don't put your money in a single account, and if you ever needed the insurance you have to go through a third party that made a deal with the actual banks.

acjohnson55 7y ago
With Robinhood, I understand cash is SIPC insured once it hits their systems, and then it is a couple of days until it is deposited in underlying accounts at their program banks, where it is FDIC insured. So it's something to consider when moving large amounts of money. Another thing is that these neobanks have withdrawal amount limits and ATM limits, and so they aren't a great choice for storing emergency funds.
- briandear 7y ago
  > Another thing is that these neobanks have withdrawal amount limits and ATM limits Every French bank has these limits. I once had a French bank account that limited my debit card to €2500 in purchases in a month — for no good reason other than trying to limit access to my own money. Cash purchases over €1000 are also illegal in France. For the most ridiculous banking rules and limits, France is the place. My chase account in the other hand, I could withdrawal $100k in cash if I wanted. Still have a (high) debit card limit, but I can call them and immediately get it lifted for a specific transaction (such as buying a car.)
  - acjohnson55 7y ago
    Yeah, but for the neobanks, it's even more strict. You simply can't access all your money instantly. As far as I can tell, anyhow.