5 ms·

Yes, giving access to all communications worldwide to the cops still won't help them catch the abusers that don't record and post their abuse online. Which I as

Yes, giving access to all communications worldwide to the cops still won't help them catch the abusers that don't record and post their abuse online. Which I assume is the majority of child abuse cases.

jacquesm 7y ago
The bigger problem the police have is not that they don't have enough cases go after, it is that they already are overwhelmed by the cases they do have and the fact that those departments are typically understaffed and overworked. It takes a special kind of person to be exposed to this crap on a daily basis and still be able to function, employee turnover is - not surprisingly - high and the effectiveness is relatively low because of the overwhelming caseload.
- mikece 7y ago
  This cannot be emphasized enough. Normal humans can’t imagine the depravity to which child predators descend. I’ve heard stories from the teams who review content uploaded to YouTube to remove this filth and people who were just looking for a paying job end up alcoholic, suicidal and psychologically messed up for life after Only a few weeks of encountering this this stuff as part of the flagged content review process for places like YouTube and Facebook. I can only imagine the counseling required for law enforcement agents working these crimes is intense... as well as the temptation to shoot all suspects they arrest merely out of disgust. That said: banning encryption is not the answer to this.
  - zozbot234 7y ago
    Yup, my guess is that child predators, by and large, are basically criminal psychopaths. I wonder how many of them only prey on kids because they're such a convenient, vulnerable target.
    - jacquesm 7y ago
      Here is one particularly shocking example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsterdam_sex_crimes_case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsterdam_sex_crimes_case
      - zozbot234 7y ago
        It's interesting to note that this abuser was caught precisely because people looked at the images of the abuse and figured out that they had to be from the Netherlands. I suspect that this describes a non-trivial portion of successful prosecutions - especially of those responsible for a lot of abuse, as with this case.
        jacquesm 7y ago
        Yes, typically it is a bunch of coincidences that allows these cases to be solved. It's incredible the scale at which they operated and how long they got away with it.
        jstarfish 7y ago
        The problem is that perpetrators are not as stereotypical as people assume-- it's not the registered offender down the street, it's not the creepy guy in aviators living out of the panel van. "To Catch A Predator" really fucked up the public's perception of abuse perpetrators. It's almost always the victim's parent/caretaker or other close relation-- but they always "seem totally normal" so nobody wants to believe it's happening and will excuse or look past all sorts of shitty behavior that, if it were performed by some random, would elicit disgust and antipathy and cause them to be run out of town. I'm currently dealing with an abuse case. The family is uncooperative because they don't believe the evidence presented, and the victim has been coached into protecting the perpetrator. So the abuse will continue.
        jacquesm 7y ago
        I wish you all the strength in the world.
- synt4x1k0 7y ago
  > employee turnover is - not surprisingly - high Is it? From a quick search, I cannot find any academic papers that support this claim. However, I see some news articles that claim this. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0735648X.2011.631401 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0735648X.2011.63... https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1043986211405899 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/104398621140589... This paper mentions "turnover intentions", which seems broadly defined in the methodologies. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11896-010-9066-7 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11896-010-9066-7
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    That's just going by the people that I knew that worked in this field and the fact that suicides are yet another form of turnover. Ronald, RIP.
Koshkin 7y ago
But they want to look under the lamppost - it's brighter there.

jacquesm 7y ago

The bigger problem the police have is not that they don't have enough cases go after, it is that they already are overwhelmed by the cases they do have and the fact that those departments are typically understaffed and overworked. It takes a special kind of person to be exposed to this crap on a daily basis and still be able to function, employee turnover is - not surprisingly - high and the effectiveness is relatively low because of the overwhelming caseload.

mikece 7y ago
This cannot be emphasized enough. Normal humans can’t imagine the depravity to which child predators descend. I’ve heard stories from the teams who review content uploaded to YouTube to remove this filth and people who were just looking for a paying job end up alcoholic, suicidal and psychologically messed up for life after Only a few weeks of encountering this this stuff as part of the flagged content review process for places like YouTube and Facebook. I can only imagine the counseling required for law enforcement agents working these crimes is intense... as well as the temptation to shoot all suspects they arrest merely out of disgust. That said: banning encryption is not the answer to this.
- zozbot234 7y ago
  Yup, my guess is that child predators, by and large, are basically criminal psychopaths. I wonder how many of them only prey on kids because they're such a convenient, vulnerable target.
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    Here is one particularly shocking example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsterdam_sex_crimes_case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsterdam_sex_crimes_case
    - zozbot234 7y ago
      It's interesting to note that this abuser was caught precisely because people looked at the images of the abuse and figured out that they had to be from the Netherlands. I suspect that this describes a non-trivial portion of successful prosecutions - especially of those responsible for a lot of abuse, as with this case.
      - jacquesm 7y ago
        Yes, typically it is a bunch of coincidences that allows these cases to be solved. It's incredible the scale at which they operated and how long they got away with it.
        jstarfish 7y ago
        The problem is that perpetrators are not as stereotypical as people assume-- it's not the registered offender down the street, it's not the creepy guy in aviators living out of the panel van. "To Catch A Predator" really fucked up the public's perception of abuse perpetrators. It's almost always the victim's parent/caretaker or other close relation-- but they always "seem totally normal" so nobody wants to believe it's happening and will excuse or look past all sorts of shitty behavior that, if it were performed by some random, would elicit disgust and antipathy and cause them to be run out of town. I'm currently dealing with an abuse case. The family is uncooperative because they don't believe the evidence presented, and the victim has been coached into protecting the perpetrator. So the abuse will continue.
        jacquesm 7y ago
        I wish you all the strength in the world.
synt4x1k0 7y ago
> employee turnover is - not surprisingly - high Is it? From a quick search, I cannot find any academic papers that support this claim. However, I see some news articles that claim this. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0735648X.2011.631401 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0735648X.2011.63... https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1043986211405899 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/104398621140589... This paper mentions "turnover intentions", which seems broadly defined in the methodologies. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11896-010-9066-7 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11896-010-9066-7
- jacquesm 7y ago
  That's just going by the people that I knew that worked in this field and the fact that suicides are yet another form of turnover. Ronald, RIP.

Koshkin 7y ago

But they want to look under the lamppost - it's brighter there.