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I have been seeing this MS vs other debates since decades. Why Linux has not been able to come up with a consumer OS. Why Windows or MAC only rule in consumer O

by zerop 7y ago

I have been seeing this MS vs other debates since decades. Why Linux has not been able to come up with a consumer OS. Why Windows or MAC only rule in consumer OS space?

sgt101 7y ago
Because the PC is an open platform and there is an ocean of devices to support. Manufactures are incentivized to produce drivers for the three platforms for their devices, but because of desktop dominance only MS can spend the dollars for competent cross device integration.
Nextgrid 7y ago
Linux user experience is awful and there’s no pressure to improve it; unlike in a for-profit company there’s no common objective & leadership that unite all the people building the Linux desktop. Doesn’t help that there are dozens of competing desktop environments so a lot of effort is duplicated and wasted.
- navigatr 7y ago
  Gnome 3 is pretty great and so is Ubuntu 19.10. I have my parents on both and they seem to like it just fine.
- z3t4 7y ago
  Ubuntu is very user friendly. Competition is good for the consumer and result in better products.
  - Nextgrid 7y ago
    Tell that to my friend with whom I spent 30 minutes trying to figure out why Netflix wasn’t working on a brand new Ubuntu install. Had to enable a repo and install an extra package through the terminal. I can do it but there’s no way a normal user would figure that out on their own.
    - input_sh 7y ago
      What are you talking about? Netflix works just fine in both the popular browsers that are available on Ubuntu with no packages needed. You either install Chrome just like you would on Windows (just click on .deb instead of .exe), or you click on "enable DRM" on a pre-installed Firefox. What repo? What extra package? None of that is needed.
      - Nextgrid 7y ago
        I have enabled DRM on Firefox and it still didn’t work. I had to enable more repos (the community ones I think) and install libavcodec-extra as per an answer on AskUbuntu. I’m suspecting the package can’t be preinstalled for licensing reasons (even though I ticked the non-free software box during install) but in this case why not replace the library with a shim that displays a notification to the user and allows them to install the package through a GUI?
scarface74 7y ago
Apple never wanted the enterprise. Hardware sells to the enterprise are low margin, require babysitting and they require backwards compatibility forever. The computer market is dwarfed by the mobile market. Don’t forget that Apple became more successful than Dell in the early 2000s selling iPods of all things not by trying to compete in the enterprise.
- speedplane 7y ago
  > Apple never wanted the enterprise. Hardware sells to the enterprise are low margin, require babysitting and they require backwards compatibility forever. I agree with much of this, except the idea that enterprise sales are low margin. Once you lock in an enterprise customer, the cost of switching to another provider becomes a large barrier. Your margin is dictated largely by the cost of your product, minus the cost of the competitor's, plus the cost of switching. If the cost of switching is high, the margins can also be high. Apple does not derive its margins from the cost of switching (changing phones is relatively easy). They do generally have a better product, but they also provide incredible branding around being the best. Apples margins are dictated by cost of Apple's product, minus the competitors, plus value of affiliating yourself with their brand.
  - dragandj 7y ago
    Your acquisition costs are higher too, since you have not only to undercut your competition, but to be lower than competition - switching cost...
  - scarface74 7y ago
    Apple’s products are better for the end user and they are willing to pay a premium. Enterprise sells aren’t to the end user they are to the buyer. There is an existence proof or lack of existence. How many computer companies that were big in the enterprise like Dell and HP when Apple was almost bankrupt are big now? Dell basically “gave the money back to shareholders”.
- cpach 7y ago
  ”Apple never wanted the enterprise” Are you sure? See e.g. IBM who use hundreds of thousands Macs https://www.computerworld.com/article/3452847/ibm-mac-users-are-happier-and-more-productive.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/3452847/ibm-mac-users-...
jk3faster 7y ago
If you are not heavily dependent on softwares that run exclusively on Windows, I would say user experience on any mainstream GNU/Linux distribution is far better than that of Windows(which still insists automatic update before a reboot/shutdown). Also, community support for linux is much better. Places like AskUbuntu and community forums of distributions are much better than microsoft's support forum. Try a distribution like Kubuntu or Linux Mint for a few weeks :)
- arcticfox 7y ago
  What finally got me on Linux for good was Regolith (an Ubuntu distribution with a tiling WM preconfigured). The window manager is just better, faster, and I can use my vim shortcuts to move between windows and desktops. And, crucially for Linux, it came ready to go so I didn't have to spend days getting it working how I'd like.
- oefrha 7y ago
  Linux people keep peddling this, I'd say it'll never be the year of Linux on Desktop if you keep denying you have problems. Last I tried to dual boot my Windows gaming rig to Ubuntu Desktop earlier this year, it can't even do fractional scaling on my 4K monitor, making it completely worthless. You'd think HiDPI support is pretty basic stuff in 2019. Granted Windows HiDPI is still craptastic compared to macOS, as least it has been usable since 2015.
  - jk3faster 7y ago
    Of course, that's what I refer to as a windows dependent workflow, like gaming and graphics designing. And I do agree linux support for those stuff is still limited, but constantly improving(especially with Steam).
    - gbl08ma 7y ago
      The way I see it, "desktop-dependent workflows" overlap more and more with those "Windows-dependent workflows". Nowadays, most people don't need more than a web browser, and in that sense they do just fine with a tablet or phone (where iOS and Android dominate, and GNU/Linux is not really a viable option, at least not yet), or a Chromebook (yes, it's Linux, but it's mainly just Chrome). Most people I know with a legitimate use for a desktop also have legitimate reasons to use Windows or macOS: gaming on Windows, content creation on Windows or macOS (graphics designing, video editing, ...), and MS Office lock-in. The only exception I can think of are developers, but even then, depending on the kind of development one is doing, using Windows or macOS may be the only choice.

by zerop 7y ago

I have been seeing this MS vs other debates since decades. Why Linux has not been able to come up with a consumer OS. Why Windows or MAC only rule in consumer OS space?

sgt101 7y ago

Because the PC is an open platform and there is an ocean of devices to support. Manufactures are incentivized to produce drivers for the three platforms for their devices, but because of desktop dominance only MS can spend the dollars for competent cross device integration.

Nextgrid 7y ago

Linux user experience is awful and there’s no pressure to improve it; unlike in a for-profit company there’s no common objective & leadership that unite all the people building the Linux desktop. Doesn’t help that there are dozens of competing desktop environments so a lot of effort is duplicated and wasted.

navigatr 7y ago
Gnome 3 is pretty great and so is Ubuntu 19.10. I have my parents on both and they seem to like it just fine.
z3t4 7y ago
Ubuntu is very user friendly. Competition is good for the consumer and result in better products.
- Nextgrid 7y ago
  Tell that to my friend with whom I spent 30 minutes trying to figure out why Netflix wasn’t working on a brand new Ubuntu install. Had to enable a repo and install an extra package through the terminal. I can do it but there’s no way a normal user would figure that out on their own.
  - input_sh 7y ago
    What are you talking about? Netflix works just fine in both the popular browsers that are available on Ubuntu with no packages needed. You either install Chrome just like you would on Windows (just click on .deb instead of .exe), or you click on "enable DRM" on a pre-installed Firefox. What repo? What extra package? None of that is needed.
    - Nextgrid 7y ago
      I have enabled DRM on Firefox and it still didn’t work. I had to enable more repos (the community ones I think) and install libavcodec-extra as per an answer on AskUbuntu. I’m suspecting the package can’t be preinstalled for licensing reasons (even though I ticked the non-free software box during install) but in this case why not replace the library with a shim that displays a notification to the user and allows them to install the package through a GUI?

scarface74 7y ago

Apple never wanted the enterprise. Hardware sells to the enterprise are low margin, require babysitting and they require backwards compatibility forever. The computer market is dwarfed by the mobile market. Don’t forget that Apple became more successful than Dell in the early 2000s selling iPods of all things not by trying to compete in the enterprise.

speedplane 7y ago
> Apple never wanted the enterprise. Hardware sells to the enterprise are low margin, require babysitting and they require backwards compatibility forever. I agree with much of this, except the idea that enterprise sales are low margin. Once you lock in an enterprise customer, the cost of switching to another provider becomes a large barrier. Your margin is dictated largely by the cost of your product, minus the cost of the competitor's, plus the cost of switching. If the cost of switching is high, the margins can also be high. Apple does not derive its margins from the cost of switching (changing phones is relatively easy). They do generally have a better product, but they also provide incredible branding around being the best. Apples margins are dictated by cost of Apple's product, minus the competitors, plus value of affiliating yourself with their brand.
- dragandj 7y ago
  Your acquisition costs are higher too, since you have not only to undercut your competition, but to be lower than competition - switching cost...
- scarface74 7y ago
  Apple’s products are better for the end user and they are willing to pay a premium. Enterprise sells aren’t to the end user they are to the buyer. There is an existence proof or lack of existence. How many computer companies that were big in the enterprise like Dell and HP when Apple was almost bankrupt are big now? Dell basically “gave the money back to shareholders”.
cpach 7y ago
”Apple never wanted the enterprise” Are you sure? See e.g. IBM who use hundreds of thousands Macs https://www.computerworld.com/article/3452847/ibm-mac-users-are-happier-and-more-productive.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/3452847/ibm-mac-users-...

jk3faster 7y ago

If you are not heavily dependent on softwares that run exclusively on Windows, I would say user experience on any mainstream GNU/Linux distribution is far better than that of Windows(which still insists automatic update before a reboot/shutdown). Also, community support for linux is much better. Places like AskUbuntu and community forums of distributions are much better than microsoft's support forum. Try a distribution like Kubuntu or Linux Mint for a few weeks :)

arcticfox 7y ago
What finally got me on Linux for good was Regolith (an Ubuntu distribution with a tiling WM preconfigured). The window manager is just better, faster, and I can use my vim shortcuts to move between windows and desktops. And, crucially for Linux, it came ready to go so I didn't have to spend days getting it working how I'd like.
oefrha 7y ago
Linux people keep peddling this, I'd say it'll never be the year of Linux on Desktop if you keep denying you have problems. Last I tried to dual boot my Windows gaming rig to Ubuntu Desktop earlier this year, it can't even do fractional scaling on my 4K monitor, making it completely worthless. You'd think HiDPI support is pretty basic stuff in 2019. Granted Windows HiDPI is still craptastic compared to macOS, as least it has been usable since 2015.
- jk3faster 7y ago
  Of course, that's what I refer to as a windows dependent workflow, like gaming and graphics designing. And I do agree linux support for those stuff is still limited, but constantly improving(especially with Steam).
  - gbl08ma 7y ago
    The way I see it, "desktop-dependent workflows" overlap more and more with those "Windows-dependent workflows". Nowadays, most people don't need more than a web browser, and in that sense they do just fine with a tablet or phone (where iOS and Android dominate, and GNU/Linux is not really a viable option, at least not yet), or a Chromebook (yes, it's Linux, but it's mainly just Chrome). Most people I know with a legitimate use for a desktop also have legitimate reasons to use Windows or macOS: gaming on Windows, content creation on Windows or macOS (graphics designing, video editing, ...), and MS Office lock-in. The only exception I can think of are developers, but even then, depending on the kind of development one is doing, using Windows or macOS may be the only choice.