7 ms·

RIP I'm one of those people who go work at Google once every few years. The transformation of culture from about 2013 onwards has been somewhat sad to experie

by fooker 7y ago

RIP I'm one of those people who go work at Google once every few years. The transformation of culture from about 2013 onwards has been somewhat sad to experience. Interestingly, most people who have been continuously employed there have not felt the very slight gradient. However, the changes in culture, freedom, food quality, etc are fairly obvious when one returns after ..say.. 18 months. Here are some semi-concrete metrics: Decreasing TGIF frequency (now gone..), 'micro kitchen' snack variety and quality, which doors in buildings you are allowed to enter from(:facepalm:), badging in for meals(also :facepalm:), weird restrictions on business flights, attempt to make everything look uniform (no candies in receptions! No decorations..), defense contracts(much publicized here), any other discretionary spending by teams. Anything I forgot?

Tempest1981 7y ago
> No decorations.. Where does this apply? Just reception, or more? Can I have a poster or art? A plant?
- fooker 7y ago
  Receptions and front desk, iirc. People manning them were previously allowed (and long ago, encouraged) to decorate the space to their liking. That went away this year (and partly restored as a result of memegen-driven protests, after I left as I hear.)
bowmessage 7y ago
Point taken, but how is badging for meals a ‘facepalm’? Re: decorations, https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/10/04/google-seattle-halloween-cemetery/ https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/10/04/google-seattle-hall... ?
- rachelbythebay 7y ago
  This, from 2009? "Badging today will allocate funds for your meal tomorrow". And I wrote about it eight years ago. https://rachelbythebay.com/w/2011/10/17/badging/ https://rachelbythebay.com/w/2011/10/17/badging/
  - joshuamorton 7y ago
    I'm still unclear on what the badge for meal thing was, but apparently its come and gone before. It was apparently a thing in 09, went away, came back sometime in like 2013 or 14, went away again, and is now again a requirement (and has been since sometime in 2018). It didn't spell any particular doom either of the other times, and other than some dubious tax related stuff, i'm not sure what the impact is/will be. Seems like it will take more years to find out.
    - gerbler 7y ago
      The badging for meals is to show to the IRS that it's not a taxable perk. AFAIK it's just something that happens in the US.
      - tomnj 7y ago
        Out of curiosity, why wouldn’t that be a taxable perk? (Not that I think tax codes make any sense)
        CydeWeys 7y ago
        If it's provided because of its benefit to the employer, it's not taxable (same reason company computers are a business expense and not a taxable perk to the employee). The logic is that the company gets benefits from providing meals that exceed the costs, e.g. shorter lunch breaks since employees don't even have to leave the building. And given that meals can be provided at scale for under $10/head, then even shaving 5 minutes off a lunch break is worth it at Big Tech compensation levels. There's also benefits to having employees eat more meals with other employees, and thus some work gets done over lunch.
    - TheReveller 7y ago
      It's only for IRS reporting purposes, nothing more.
  - bowmessage 7y ago
    I might be slow, but I still don't see reason to worry there. What happened in the proceeding months / years that was forewarned by this whiteboard / practice?
ttraub 7y ago
I'd be interested to hear what Googlers have to say about recent deals with the Chinese government. Any qualms about that, or is there more of a feeling of relief or "glad we're back in China"?
- summerlight 7y ago
  Which deal? Are you saying about Dragonfly?
tirewarehouse 7y ago
If badging in for a free meal (which is "required", but not enforced) is one of your top complaints, this comment will only reinforce how ridiculously entitled some tech workers have become. Not sure what office you work or worked in, but where I'm at they regularly go over the top with decorations during celebrations. It's pretty awesome.
- fooker 7y ago
  None of these on their own are huge complaints or issues. They just add up.
  - kccqzy 7y ago
    How is badging for food even a small issue?
    - fooker 7y ago
      Would you want your employer to know about your exact food habits for years of your life? How about your government? How about your insurance company?
      - rak00n 7y ago
        You blew it out of proportion. It's more like you badge in a certain cafe. No one knows what you ate in that cafe.
      - username90 7y ago
        Google already tracks every time you badge in at any door meaning they already know exactly where you are, when you com in, where you go for meetings etc. Badging for food is very minor in comparison.
      - derangedHorse 7y ago
        Just because you badge in for your company doesn’t automatically mean your government or insurance company will get the data. Even if they did, they could probably get it in more detail from other sources like your bank and credit card company. Also they don’t track what you get, so I don’t see what the big deal is.
darkwizard42 7y ago
which doors you are allowed to enter from is a security protocol... badging in for meals is for IRS tax purposes... The two things you facepalmed are absolutely easily explainable.
- jeremysalwen 7y ago
  *security theater
- fooker 7y ago
  Yes, all of this is explainable. So is cancelling TGIF. Was that your main takeaway here?
- CydeWeys 7y ago
  The real issue with the security "protocol" was that directors and up were exempt from it, creating a two-class system. That's supposedly since been rescinded.
zestyping 7y ago
The dismantling of Google.org in 2015. We were once an engineering and product team that used Google's unique reach, resources, infrastructure, and technology to create tools and services purely for good. We reunited survivors of disasters, helped them find shelter, alerted people to keep them safe, built technology to help MSF fight Ebola, and predicted flu epidemics. We worked to lift the most vulnerable among us. Teams all over the company and around the world helped us do things only Google could. That Google.org no longer exists. The "Google.org" label has been reassigned to Google's donation programs. Google donates money to many meaningful efforts, and that's great; but anyone can donate money. Google used to donate money and build things for good, and it does the latter no more.
- fooker 7y ago
  Yes. Another one I just recalled: More and more retaliation. Two prominent women who tried to protest were 'managed out' this year.
- xiphias2 7y ago
  I (an Eastern European software engineer who was working at Google Switzerland) can't forget the Christmas gift I got from Google that I donated Chromebooks to students in U.S. It was the weirdest Christmas present that I got in my life, and believe me I got some very weird clothes from my mum when I was young.
- thu2111 7y ago
  That was the same Google.org that had weird problems with its leader interfering in middle eastern politics, to the extent it became practically an extension of the White House? I remember google.org - seen from the perspective of an engineer in a far away land it was frankly just kind of weird/creepy/slightly sinister. Yeah the flu epidemic predictor thing was kinda cool, except I never heard anything about it since and I'm not sure it's ever actually been useful for much.
djohnston 7y ago
I think this is basically par for the course as a company becomes massive. A small percentage of employees will abuse perks, and once the absolute number hits some threshold the financial cost of that abuse requires revision. Same thing happened at a company I watched from from about 100 to 5000, albeit on a smaller scale.
- CydeWeys 7y ago
  That's not what cafe badging is about. It wouldn't catch that anyway; you're just badging into the cafe. There's no way to know how much you actually ate.
  - djohnston 7y ago
    I think it's more about the 22 y.o hire who decides he and his 5 mates should all get dinner at the new office
    - whymauri 7y ago
      This is generally fine, at least in Google Cambridge. It's just for tax purposes, as has been made abundantly clear in this thread.
      - CydeWeys 7y ago
        It's generally not fine in other offices where cafes are already crowded just with employees (e.g. NYC). You have to register all guests at the building entrance and if you're registering lots of guests all the time, something might happen. What exactly I'm not sure; I don't know anyone who abuses the cafes to this extent. I think the registration requirements alone substantially curtail potential abuse.
    - CydeWeys 7y ago
      Cafe badging does nothing to address this, as guests don't even have badges to badge with! There's no gate that you need to badge into the cafe to enter, if that's what you're thinking about. The way to address that is to see who is consistently registering to bring in way more guests to the office than anyone else.

by fooker 7y ago

Tempest1981 7y ago

> No decorations.. Where does this apply? Just reception, or more? Can I have a poster or art? A plant?

fooker 7y ago
Receptions and front desk, iirc. People manning them were previously allowed (and long ago, encouraged) to decorate the space to their liking. That went away this year (and partly restored as a result of memegen-driven protests, after I left as I hear.)

bowmessage 7y ago

Point taken, but how is badging for meals a ‘facepalm’? Re: decorations, https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/10/04/google-seattle-halloween-cemetery/ https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/10/04/google-seattle-hall... ?

rachelbythebay 7y ago
This, from 2009? "Badging today will allocate funds for your meal tomorrow". And I wrote about it eight years ago. https://rachelbythebay.com/w/2011/10/17/badging/ https://rachelbythebay.com/w/2011/10/17/badging/
- joshuamorton 7y ago
  I'm still unclear on what the badge for meal thing was, but apparently its come and gone before. It was apparently a thing in 09, went away, came back sometime in like 2013 or 14, went away again, and is now again a requirement (and has been since sometime in 2018). It didn't spell any particular doom either of the other times, and other than some dubious tax related stuff, i'm not sure what the impact is/will be. Seems like it will take more years to find out.
  - gerbler 7y ago
    The badging for meals is to show to the IRS that it's not a taxable perk. AFAIK it's just something that happens in the US.
    - tomnj 7y ago
      Out of curiosity, why wouldn’t that be a taxable perk? (Not that I think tax codes make any sense)
      - CydeWeys 7y ago
        If it's provided because of its benefit to the employer, it's not taxable (same reason company computers are a business expense and not a taxable perk to the employee). The logic is that the company gets benefits from providing meals that exceed the costs, e.g. shorter lunch breaks since employees don't even have to leave the building. And given that meals can be provided at scale for under $10/head, then even shaving 5 minutes off a lunch break is worth it at Big Tech compensation levels. There's also benefits to having employees eat more meals with other employees, and thus some work gets done over lunch.
  - TheReveller 7y ago
    It's only for IRS reporting purposes, nothing more.
- bowmessage 7y ago
  I might be slow, but I still don't see reason to worry there. What happened in the proceeding months / years that was forewarned by this whiteboard / practice?

ttraub 7y ago

I'd be interested to hear what Googlers have to say about recent deals with the Chinese government. Any qualms about that, or is there more of a feeling of relief or "glad we're back in China"?

summerlight 7y ago
Which deal? Are you saying about Dragonfly?

tirewarehouse 7y ago

If badging in for a free meal (which is "required", but not enforced) is one of your top complaints, this comment will only reinforce how ridiculously entitled some tech workers have become. Not sure what office you work or worked in, but where I'm at they regularly go over the top with decorations during celebrations. It's pretty awesome.

fooker 7y ago
None of these on their own are huge complaints or issues. They just add up.
- kccqzy 7y ago
  How is badging for food even a small issue?
  - fooker 7y ago
    Would you want your employer to know about your exact food habits for years of your life? How about your government? How about your insurance company?
    - rak00n 7y ago
      You blew it out of proportion. It's more like you badge in a certain cafe. No one knows what you ate in that cafe.
    - username90 7y ago
      Google already tracks every time you badge in at any door meaning they already know exactly where you are, when you com in, where you go for meetings etc. Badging for food is very minor in comparison.
    - derangedHorse 7y ago
      Just because you badge in for your company doesn’t automatically mean your government or insurance company will get the data. Even if they did, they could probably get it in more detail from other sources like your bank and credit card company. Also they don’t track what you get, so I don’t see what the big deal is.

darkwizard42 7y ago

which doors you are allowed to enter from is a security protocol... badging in for meals is for IRS tax purposes... The two things you facepalmed are absolutely easily explainable.

jeremysalwen 7y ago
*security theater
fooker 7y ago
Yes, all of this is explainable. So is cancelling TGIF. Was that your main takeaway here?
CydeWeys 7y ago
The real issue with the security "protocol" was that directors and up were exempt from it, creating a two-class system. That's supposedly since been rescinded.

zestyping 7y ago

The dismantling of Google.org in 2015. We were once an engineering and product team that used Google's unique reach, resources, infrastructure, and technology to create tools and services purely for good. We reunited survivors of disasters, helped them find shelter, alerted people to keep them safe, built technology to help MSF fight Ebola, and predicted flu epidemics. We worked to lift the most vulnerable among us. Teams all over the company and around the world helped us do things only Google could. That Google.org no longer exists. The "Google.org" label has been reassigned to Google's donation programs. Google donates money to many meaningful efforts, and that's great; but anyone can donate money. Google used to donate money and build things for good, and it does the latter no more.

fooker 7y ago
Yes. Another one I just recalled: More and more retaliation. Two prominent women who tried to protest were 'managed out' this year.
xiphias2 7y ago
I (an Eastern European software engineer who was working at Google Switzerland) can't forget the Christmas gift I got from Google that I donated Chromebooks to students in U.S. It was the weirdest Christmas present that I got in my life, and believe me I got some very weird clothes from my mum when I was young.
thu2111 7y ago
That was the same Google.org that had weird problems with its leader interfering in middle eastern politics, to the extent it became practically an extension of the White House? I remember google.org - seen from the perspective of an engineer in a far away land it was frankly just kind of weird/creepy/slightly sinister. Yeah the flu epidemic predictor thing was kinda cool, except I never heard anything about it since and I'm not sure it's ever actually been useful for much.

djohnston 7y ago

I think this is basically par for the course as a company becomes massive. A small percentage of employees will abuse perks, and once the absolute number hits some threshold the financial cost of that abuse requires revision. Same thing happened at a company I watched from from about 100 to 5000, albeit on a smaller scale.

CydeWeys 7y ago
That's not what cafe badging is about. It wouldn't catch that anyway; you're just badging into the cafe. There's no way to know how much you actually ate.
- djohnston 7y ago
  I think it's more about the 22 y.o hire who decides he and his 5 mates should all get dinner at the new office
  - whymauri 7y ago
    This is generally fine, at least in Google Cambridge. It's just for tax purposes, as has been made abundantly clear in this thread.
    - CydeWeys 7y ago
      It's generally not fine in other offices where cafes are already crowded just with employees (e.g. NYC). You have to register all guests at the building entrance and if you're registering lots of guests all the time, something might happen. What exactly I'm not sure; I don't know anyone who abuses the cafes to this extent. I think the registration requirements alone substantially curtail potential abuse.
  - CydeWeys 7y ago
    Cafe badging does nothing to address this, as guests don't even have badges to badge with! There's no gate that you need to badge into the cafe to enter, if that's what you're thinking about. The way to address that is to see who is consistently registering to bring in way more guests to the office than anyone else.