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This is great if you have something worth yearning for. "Teach them to crave fast data insight from the their analytics software for marketing campaigns" lacks

This is great if you have something worth yearning for. "Teach them to crave fast data insight from the their analytics software for marketing campaigns" lacks the same sense of romance or moral imperative. I'll acknowledge that's a bit tongue in cheek and not being charitable to the underlying point as it applies to day to day work, but I also think that this snark often applies to the "missions" that some/many Silicon Valley startups proclaim for enterprisey, salesey products, because I think those missions are a form of self-delusion about how much good you're really doing for society, as opposed to just making money because there's value to be captured.

8ytecoder 7y ago
A good leader can put a twist on that - "Let's improve the accuracy of ad targeting so small businesses can reduce their spend but attract customers and grow" or "Let's connect the world. Let's help unite lost friends."
- moralestapia 7y ago
  "Our mission is to organize the world’s information and make it universally accessible and useful." "[REDACTED]'s mission is to give people the power to build community and bring the world closer together." "Our mission is to be Earth's most customer-centric company." "[REDACTED]'s mission is to bring transportation—for everyone, everywhere." Yeah, I do not know why but I do not feel very inspired by those ...
  - jmiserez 7y ago
    >organize the world’s information and make it universally accessible and useful Not inspired by that? Is it too abstract? Asked another way, what kind of mission would inspire you? FYI I do agree with the general sentiment by munchbunny.
    - daseiner1 7y ago
      moralestapia's point, as I understand it, is cynicism towards broad, idealistic mission statements because large tech companies with them still have a history of using their employees in what he/she perceives to be immoral ways. The mission statements mentioned, in order, correspond to: * Google * Facebook * Amazon * Uber
    - mrspeaker 7y ago
      I'm very inspired by inspirational things - but can't believe there's anyone left who would feel real inspiration from those. Perhaps the first company that decided their mission would be "to make the world a better place" would have sounded (and maybe even been) good - but now it's just meaningless word-salad disguised as a profound statement. It's the "trite motivational poster" of the business world.
      - arcticbull 7y ago
        In a way those statements all would have been inspiring when the company set out and the world didn't have those things. Is it possible that those companies have achieved those missions to such an extent that it's no longer inspiring? That would be the mark of an epic success. The question is what comes next?
  - trickstra 7y ago
    Because we've been hearing such phrases so often that we are now immune.
- munchbunny 7y ago
  Oh, absolutely, and being a former tech worker in the advertising industry, I'm intimately familiar with that line of thinking. When you're trying to inspire the workers, it works (I used it), but now I hate it for the dishonesty of the framing. That's also why it'll take very unique circumstances for me to ever go back to that industry.
  - arcticbull 7y ago
    Framing isn't dishonest if it's true ;) helps if you believe it yourself.
    - patcon 7y ago
      Hm. We might be imaging different scenarios but I'll try to puts words to my agreement with the "dishonesty" thing :) Feels like it's shining the light of attention at the spot most aligned with human desires, but usually at expense of shrouding the holistic goals (which might not be in interest of participants). It might be true, but the framing could still be dishonest because the specific focus is often intended to distract from a less savoury whole. <3
  - shostack 7y ago
    >"Teach them to crave fast data insight from the their analytics software for marketing campaigns" lacks the same sense of romance or moral imperative." I'm not sure what your specific role in the industry was. However while it may not have the same sense of romance or moral imperative as something else, it can still help rally great teams around causes. I've found people, particularly teams of data-driven marketers, can get quite excited when seeing a business grow directly because of insights they distilled from data. It's the feeling of making a tangible impact.
    - munchbunny 7y ago
      I won't discuss my specific role in order to keep what shred of my anonymity might be left. My response was mostly aimed at statements like one of 8ytecoder's examples: "Let's improve the accuracy of ad targeting so small businesses can reduce their spend but attract customers and grow". This is because the focus on small businesses is often a foil, and reality is much more morally ambiguous. Actual small businesses are at the far end of the long tail. Very few companies primarily serve small businesses or primarily make their money from small businesses. In practice, in order of how much money is spent, the list goes: (1) large brands, (2) local/state franchises and political campaigns, (3) small businesses. Most companies (Google/Facebook, for example) might coincidentally serve small businesses, but the real infrastructure and engineering investments are for the other two groups. Small businesses tend to be the least sophisticated of the campaigns, because they honestly don't need much sophistication. Their numbers are too low to bring in real data science anyway, so it's more about being savvy at community presence. However, when you get to franchises and politics, the sophistication really kicks in. Also, some of those small/medium businesses were for things like predatory lending companies. That realization made me stop and think for a moment about what "small business" actually meant. Point being that I've seen and used (earnestly, at the time) small businesses as a sort moral foil while actually aspiring to develop technology for the other groups. And you believe it because you're paid to believe it.
- Broken_Hippo 7y ago
  Sure, you could do that. But honestly, as a worker drone it all sounds like corporate bullshit to me. No one says things like, "Lets do this well so we can make more money so we can get paid more" or anything actually truthful like that.
- lowercased 7y ago
  good idea. however, the moment you get people on staff buying in to that, you should probably have some mechanisms to listen to their ideas too. Every time I buy in to some sort of corporate mission statement and believe it, I want to actually help get there. If I'm being told to do something which obviously/patently won't get there - because I've done XYZ for 25 years and I know the ramifications/impact of these decisions, and I know they don't get us closer to "mission statement" - I want my input and direction to be heard/heeded. Not always 100% "do what he says", but... when you simply ignore my warnings, and my outcome happens... I lose interest in your "mission statement".
- journalctl 7y ago
  That’s what we call “lying”.
coralreef 7y ago
All belief is self-delusion. Here's an idea at the other end of the spectrum: You are an assembly of atoms floating around pointlessly. But of course truly believing something like that would make your life difficult. So you create stories for yourself, "missions".
- slothtrop 7y ago
  To the extent that we lie to ourselves when we hold something to be absolutely true, yes. Everything is just a guess based on patterns and expectations.
- ARandomerDude 7y ago
  > All belief is self-delusion. Do you believe that?
  - coralreef 7y ago
    Yep, but I'm not selling a thought system like Deepak Chopra :D
- munchbunny 7y ago
  > You are an assembly of atoms floating around pointlessly. I mean... I do believe that. I also believe fervently that all of humanity's existence is an insignificant stray mark in the book that is reality. For some people that's a fundamentally depressing idea, followed by "well then why do we even exist?" For others that's liberating. For me... that line of thinking doesn't lead to any practical conclusions about what you should do, so I tend to keep my thinking at levels of abstraction that are somewhat more Earth-sized (or smaller) in scope. But more broadly, the point I was getting at is that I don't think people in general spend much time thinking about the multiple possible perspectives/beliefs that can be held about their actions, or about the second order effects of their actions, and my personal plea is for more people to do that. Even more specifically, this time speaking about conversations I've actually had, if you are one of the thousands of engineers whose job is to crunch data ever more efficiently, perhaps it's worth spending some time mulling over why it's not kosher to just pull that customer data into the training data for a new ML model without getting consent first. I promise it's not because stupid laypeople want to make your job difficult.
mcrad 7y ago
How about teach them to crave slow data insight then?
AmericanChopper 7y ago
Ironically, the post talks about the importance of context, yet you’ve given an example focused exclusively on technical features, and completely ignored any of the problems they might be built to solve.
sumanthvepa 7y ago
I agree. It's hard to make grandiose statements about a mundane thing that is just business trying to make money. In the little company I own, I've eschewed, grand mission statements, although I do secretly harbour one. None of my team would believe me anyway. My pitch is more mundane: please give me good service, at least as much as you would want from any contractor that you might have hired to work on your own home. In return, you should expect that I am a good customer for your services, one that you would want to do repeat business with, and that serving my company is a profitable for you. I don't know if they actually buy my pitch, (they haven't yet quit! :-). I hope its a reasonable one.
mcv 7y ago
I'm not very interested in working on intrusive marketing, but I'm more motivated than ever on my current project, which involves linking enterprise architectural models to all sorts of other business data in order to provide insights into how the business is doing. That doesn't sound terribly exciting, and yet it is. I've been involved in this project from the very start, I've been talking with many stakeholders, I've had to make decisions on how to approach this, what tech stack to use, what features to focus on, what new features we could add, how to prioritise different concerns, etc. I'm involved in the context of the project, and not merely the execution of it, and that's given me a much greater sense of ownership. I really care about this project and want to see it succeed. So maybe just talk about the context isn't quite enough; involve people in that context, make sure they understand the why and have them decide on the how. Make sure they're not just cogs in the machine. (It helps that the tech stack involves a Graph DB, which we didn't have any experience with before, and we create a lot of interesting data visualisations.)

8ytecoder 7y ago

A good leader can put a twist on that - "Let's improve the accuracy of ad targeting so small businesses can reduce their spend but attract customers and grow" or "Let's connect the world. Let's help unite lost friends."

moralestapia 7y ago
"Our mission is to organize the world’s information and make it universally accessible and useful." "[REDACTED]'s mission is to give people the power to build community and bring the world closer together." "Our mission is to be Earth's most customer-centric company." "[REDACTED]'s mission is to bring transportation—for everyone, everywhere." Yeah, I do not know why but I do not feel very inspired by those ...
- jmiserez 7y ago
  >organize the world’s information and make it universally accessible and useful Not inspired by that? Is it too abstract? Asked another way, what kind of mission would inspire you? FYI I do agree with the general sentiment by munchbunny.
  - daseiner1 7y ago
    moralestapia's point, as I understand it, is cynicism towards broad, idealistic mission statements because large tech companies with them still have a history of using their employees in what he/she perceives to be immoral ways. The mission statements mentioned, in order, correspond to: * Google * Facebook * Amazon * Uber
  - mrspeaker 7y ago
    I'm very inspired by inspirational things - but can't believe there's anyone left who would feel real inspiration from those. Perhaps the first company that decided their mission would be "to make the world a better place" would have sounded (and maybe even been) good - but now it's just meaningless word-salad disguised as a profound statement. It's the "trite motivational poster" of the business world.
    - arcticbull 7y ago
      In a way those statements all would have been inspiring when the company set out and the world didn't have those things. Is it possible that those companies have achieved those missions to such an extent that it's no longer inspiring? That would be the mark of an epic success. The question is what comes next?
- trickstra 7y ago
  Because we've been hearing such phrases so often that we are now immune.
munchbunny 7y ago
Oh, absolutely, and being a former tech worker in the advertising industry, I'm intimately familiar with that line of thinking. When you're trying to inspire the workers, it works (I used it), but now I hate it for the dishonesty of the framing. That's also why it'll take very unique circumstances for me to ever go back to that industry.
- arcticbull 7y ago
  Framing isn't dishonest if it's true ;) helps if you believe it yourself.
  - patcon 7y ago
    Hm. We might be imaging different scenarios but I'll try to puts words to my agreement with the "dishonesty" thing :) Feels like it's shining the light of attention at the spot most aligned with human desires, but usually at expense of shrouding the holistic goals (which might not be in interest of participants). It might be true, but the framing could still be dishonest because the specific focus is often intended to distract from a less savoury whole. <3
- shostack 7y ago
  >"Teach them to crave fast data insight from the their analytics software for marketing campaigns" lacks the same sense of romance or moral imperative." I'm not sure what your specific role in the industry was. However while it may not have the same sense of romance or moral imperative as something else, it can still help rally great teams around causes. I've found people, particularly teams of data-driven marketers, can get quite excited when seeing a business grow directly because of insights they distilled from data. It's the feeling of making a tangible impact.
  - munchbunny 7y ago
    I won't discuss my specific role in order to keep what shred of my anonymity might be left. My response was mostly aimed at statements like one of 8ytecoder's examples: "Let's improve the accuracy of ad targeting so small businesses can reduce their spend but attract customers and grow". This is because the focus on small businesses is often a foil, and reality is much more morally ambiguous. Actual small businesses are at the far end of the long tail. Very few companies primarily serve small businesses or primarily make their money from small businesses. In practice, in order of how much money is spent, the list goes: (1) large brands, (2) local/state franchises and political campaigns, (3) small businesses. Most companies (Google/Facebook, for example) might coincidentally serve small businesses, but the real infrastructure and engineering investments are for the other two groups. Small businesses tend to be the least sophisticated of the campaigns, because they honestly don't need much sophistication. Their numbers are too low to bring in real data science anyway, so it's more about being savvy at community presence. However, when you get to franchises and politics, the sophistication really kicks in. Also, some of those small/medium businesses were for things like predatory lending companies. That realization made me stop and think for a moment about what "small business" actually meant. Point being that I've seen and used (earnestly, at the time) small businesses as a sort moral foil while actually aspiring to develop technology for the other groups. And you believe it because you're paid to believe it.
Broken_Hippo 7y ago
Sure, you could do that. But honestly, as a worker drone it all sounds like corporate bullshit to me. No one says things like, "Lets do this well so we can make more money so we can get paid more" or anything actually truthful like that.
lowercased 7y ago
good idea. however, the moment you get people on staff buying in to that, you should probably have some mechanisms to listen to their ideas too. Every time I buy in to some sort of corporate mission statement and believe it, I want to actually help get there. If I'm being told to do something which obviously/patently won't get there - because I've done XYZ for 25 years and I know the ramifications/impact of these decisions, and I know they don't get us closer to "mission statement" - I want my input and direction to be heard/heeded. Not always 100% "do what he says", but... when you simply ignore my warnings, and my outcome happens... I lose interest in your "mission statement".
journalctl 7y ago
That’s what we call “lying”.

coralreef 7y ago

All belief is self-delusion. Here's an idea at the other end of the spectrum: You are an assembly of atoms floating around pointlessly. But of course truly believing something like that would make your life difficult. So you create stories for yourself, "missions".

slothtrop 7y ago
To the extent that we lie to ourselves when we hold something to be absolutely true, yes. Everything is just a guess based on patterns and expectations.
ARandomerDude 7y ago
> All belief is self-delusion. Do you believe that?
- coralreef 7y ago
  Yep, but I'm not selling a thought system like Deepak Chopra :D
munchbunny 7y ago
> You are an assembly of atoms floating around pointlessly. I mean... I do believe that. I also believe fervently that all of humanity's existence is an insignificant stray mark in the book that is reality. For some people that's a fundamentally depressing idea, followed by "well then why do we even exist?" For others that's liberating. For me... that line of thinking doesn't lead to any practical conclusions about what you should do, so I tend to keep my thinking at levels of abstraction that are somewhat more Earth-sized (or smaller) in scope. But more broadly, the point I was getting at is that I don't think people in general spend much time thinking about the multiple possible perspectives/beliefs that can be held about their actions, or about the second order effects of their actions, and my personal plea is for more people to do that. Even more specifically, this time speaking about conversations I've actually had, if you are one of the thousands of engineers whose job is to crunch data ever more efficiently, perhaps it's worth spending some time mulling over why it's not kosher to just pull that customer data into the training data for a new ML model without getting consent first. I promise it's not because stupid laypeople want to make your job difficult.

mcrad 7y ago

How about teach them to crave slow data insight then?

AmericanChopper 7y ago

Ironically, the post talks about the importance of context, yet you’ve given an example focused exclusively on technical features, and completely ignored any of the problems they might be built to solve.

sumanthvepa 7y ago

I agree. It's hard to make grandiose statements about a mundane thing that is just business trying to make money. In the little company I own, I've eschewed, grand mission statements, although I do secretly harbour one. None of my team would believe me anyway. My pitch is more mundane: please give me good service, at least as much as you would want from any contractor that you might have hired to work on your own home. In return, you should expect that I am a good customer for your services, one that you would want to do repeat business with, and that serving my company is a profitable for you. I don't know if they actually buy my pitch, (they haven't yet quit! :-). I hope its a reasonable one.

mcv 7y ago

I'm not very interested in working on intrusive marketing, but I'm more motivated than ever on my current project, which involves linking enterprise architectural models to all sorts of other business data in order to provide insights into how the business is doing. That doesn't sound terribly exciting, and yet it is. I've been involved in this project from the very start, I've been talking with many stakeholders, I've had to make decisions on how to approach this, what tech stack to use, what features to focus on, what new features we could add, how to prioritise different concerns, etc. I'm involved in the context of the project, and not merely the execution of it, and that's given me a much greater sense of ownership. I really care about this project and want to see it succeed. So maybe just talk about the context isn't quite enough; involve people in that context, make sure they understand the why and have them decide on the how. Make sure they're not just cogs in the machine. (It helps that the tech stack involves a Graph DB, which we didn't have any experience with before, and we create a lot of interesting data visualisations.)