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My favorite Amazon scam is the Amazon Ship of Theseus[0]. You sell a product, normally a cheap electronic, and build up a decent corpus of positive reviews. A
by habosa 7y ago
My favorite Amazon scam is the Amazon Ship of Theseus[0]. You sell a product, normally a cheap electronic, and build up a decent corpus of positive reviews. A good example is a USB-C cable or something. Then you decide you want to sell a new product in a more competitive subcategory, like Bluetooth Headphones. You then take the _existing_ listing and change it piece by piece. First the pictures, then the title, then the price, etc. Until you have a listing for your headphones that comes with 5,000 pre-made positive reviews! Sure they're for a totally different product, but that doesn't affect the rankings.
I see this all the time. If I go back in my order history and click on old products often the same "id" now maps to a totally different thing.
For this reason I have basically stopped ordering from Amazon. I find that Walmart has like 99% of the inventory but none of it is fake (some is junk, but it's the junk I asked for). Same prices, same ship speed, no fake shit.
0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
- mmanfrin 7y agoASUS did this with their routers, and pooled reviews by making all of their routers different variants of each other, even if completely different. I was annoyed because I had an unbelievably shitty experience with one of their (very expensive prosumer) routers. The silver lining, for me, is that I was so fucking annoyed with ASUS support that I angrily shipped it back to Amazon, bought Ubiquiti equipment, and experienced such quality whiplash that I bought a bunch of UBNT (now UI) stock. +160% since I bought.
- Pxtl 7y agoGod damn. I'm disappointed because I went through a series of awful routers (TP-Link, D-Link, Netgear) and the Asus one is the first thing that actually works well. I've got some other Asus hardware I'm really happy with, so I was starting to warm up to them.
- tracker1 7y agoI was pretty happy with several Asus routers. Tomato firmware worked on them. After the FCC pushed mfgs to block third party firmware, it wasn't so good... my current higher end Linksys is ok, but will probably go Ubiquity next round when Wifi 6 (ax) becomes more common for actual devices.
- jotm 7y agoRouters at least are easy-ish to pick. I just look up the specs of the chipset inside that specific revision of the model (yeah, bit of a pain), and make sure it works with OpenWRT or some other custom firmware. Stock firmware often doesn't even use all the features (although some have the opposite problem, due to closed source chipset drivers, like Broadcom's HW accelerated NAT).
- tedivm 7y agoASUS will also straight up lie about their product specs. I once bought a router off of them specifically because it supported WPA2 Enterprise, but when I tried to tie it into my RADIUS server I kept running into weird issues. When I contacted support they said they only supported WPA2 Enterprise on the 2.4ghz band, not the 5ghz one. I pointed out that this wasn't said anywhere, but they claimed they were truthful because it does support the feature.
- egdod 7y agoBut of course now Ubiquiti has silently added a “feature” that phones home with telemetry data. Does that count as a bait and switch?
- phren0logy 7y agoAfter much outcry they have reversed this decision, but it’s not encouraging. One of the employees was very dismissive of concerns on the Ubiquiti subreddit.
- phatfish 7y agoI steer clear of Ubiquiti because I still remember something about them not providing source for the GPL code they were using. Unsure if that was resolved but it stuck with me. I have found Mikrotik to make nice hardware with a full set of enterprise features, and mostly cost less than even the "prosumer" stuff from the big brands.
- perl4ever 7y agoMy former employer (a Fortune 500 company) buried the mostly terrible reviews on Glassdoor for our division by merging them with the parent company...
- Havoc 7y ago>Until you have a listing for your headphones that comes with 5,000 pre-made positive reviews! Fk. That's possible? How has Amazon not done anything about that? Like I can get keeping fake stuff out is a losing battle, but that seems like a rather significant design flaw if you can "transfer" reviews like that.
- behringer 7y agoAmazon thinks it can automate itself out of these problems
- Havoc 7y agoWell here you probably can - that kind of substitute a product can't be that hard to detect.
- jedieaston 7y agoIt could, by saying that the category for a product in the store is immutable and that if you want to change it, you must create a new item. If that doesn't work, extend it to the item's title and removing any of the pictures of the product (you can add more, but it's append only). Should work fine to prevent this.
- behringer 7y agoThat requires programming it... I mean amazon literally wants to automate these issues without actually programming it.
- TheCoelacanth 7y agoNo, it thinks it can get away with turning a blind eye to these problems.
- amznthrowaway4 7y agoThere are literally several thousand people who work on marketplace fraud and quality issues. It's a huge concern.
- freeAgent 7y agoI reported a specific instance of this to Amazon before and they declined to take any action to police it. In the case I reported, it was a more subtle change. I had purchased some replacement brush heads for a Philips Sonicare toothbrush in the past which worked well for me. When I went to re-order them, I was shipped a completely different design and brand of brush head which was terrible and immediately started to deteriorate due to poor quality materials. Of course, all the thousands of positive reviews for this product referred to something that was no longer being sold through that listing. I found it hard to believe that Amazon would allow this to stand, but here we are.
- freeAgent 7y agoOh wow! I just checked the SAME listing again (that's in my order history) and they have changed it YET AGAIN so now it is a listing for a complete knock-off Philips Sonicare toothbrush...not just the brush heads, but the brush body itself. Of course, I still have an "order again" button in my order history. For reference, when I originally ordered the brush heads, they were $15.99. The brush in the listing now is $59.99. This is insanity! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NN07IMW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NN07IMW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b... EDIT: It does appear they finally removed swaths of old reviews. Finally.
- Chris_Chambers 7y agoWhat on earth? How are there HN people who still knowingly buy fake stuff on Amazon? This has been well understood by HN users for years at this point. What were you thinking? Not only that, but you put the things you received in your mouth? Can you explain why you did any of this?
- caro_douglos 7y agoAs an industry electronic components are not all that different from knock off brands of LVMH products. Is it surprising to see a "customer" jump at the opportunity to score a "steal" on a new set of kicks which might look like the real deal but are certainly not. As slaves to the notion that everything must show up the next day we as consumers have decided that we should not pay for the shipping and are OK with whatever we get...Do you think Amazon makes more money working with Texas instruments or with the sellers that are hoping to make it big by boosting their reviews? *Former employee at company that exclusively sold on Amazon.
- nlfwhulsdhouv 7y agoMy favourite example of this are cheap digital PH meters: https://www.amazon.com/Accuracy-Measuring-Household-Drinking-Swimming/dp/B07YXMY9DR https://www.amazon.com/Accuracy-Measuring-Household-Drinking... If you can find any listings with real reviews, it turns out that these are pretty terrible, usually floating around 2-3 stars. Magically, there are consistently listings with 4.5+ stars and thousands of reviews for a relatively niche, barely functional product.
- rwmurrayVT 7y ago'I do have to oil it weekly, but it is attractive and very nice for the price.' lmaoooooo and all the photos are for cutting boards or some strange hanging thing I can't describe.
- owenmarshall 7y agoBased on uploaded photos that product seems to have a past life as a cutting board, a drying rack, a canopy for a kids bed, some type of dagger (letter opener?) and a lancet. That’s incredible, and the fact that someone hasn’t seen that inside Amazon and said “we have a huge problem” makes me suspect Amazon doesn’t regard it as a problem at all.
- owenversteeg 7y agoJust found an old review on the same page for a blood sugar meter! (Go to the one star reviews, it appears they were poor quality and not accurate.)
- nlfwhulsdhouv 7y agoYeah, one of them was formerly a plant pot, an umbrella, and christmas lights. It's pretty funny but equally sad that Amazon doesn't care (or worse, is misincentivized) about fixing it.
- AlexandrB 7y agoYou missed French press, kitchen utensil holder, and tupperware container. Amazing.
- avgDev 7y agoThanks, I like the convenience of amazon but will be cancelling my membership this weekend and just use walmart or something else. It is $120 a year and I'm tired of it. I have seen cases where my pricing was higher than non-prime members for the same item/seller, going to same address.
- rhizome 7y agoThat's the crux, right? There used to be a benefit from choosing Amazon over Walmart and other bigbox chains. It's like Amazon has spent their savings from having relatively no infrastructure expenses (stores, parking lots) on an inventory of pure crap, like Nieman-Marcus selling their stores and moving completely online, only to start selling cheap underwear and Ed Hardy tees.
- fittslickare 7y agoHey what about selling a product, initially sending good quality trash but later sending pieces of shit.
- dpcan 7y agoI just went through and clicked on months of past orders, lots of electronics, odds and ends types of things. This isn't true for a single product I clicked on. How is this happening so much for you? Do you have screenshots or examples?
- sithadmin 7y agoTwo items in this order are now something totally different: https://i.imgur.com/EoJDqT0.png https://i.imgur.com/EoJDqT0.png USB C 3.0 cable is now: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0119EIHTG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0119EIHTG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b... Other USB C cable is now: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0119OI9XU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0119OI9XU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b... What's interesting is that both were originally sold by Anker's merchant account (relatively respectable brand), but now each listing is linking to a different merchant...
- mikepurvis 7y agoIt's nuts that this is possible— I mean, it's obvious looking at just a handful of the reviews on either page that they're for a totally different product. I wonder if there's some shady marketplace where positive-review Amazon product pages are bought and sold, so that the scammer can grab a bunch of them all ready to go (say, from a merchant closing up shop), rather than having to play the long game upfront.
- jcrites 7y agoI agree. Seeing this garbage makes me angry. I've reported the products mentioned in this thread that look suspicious for further investigation. This appears to be listing abuse and I'd encourage people to report it: https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/help/external/200444420 https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/help/external/200444420
- K0SM0S 7y agoSounds like a clear hit on some dark store. I mean, digital reputation is one of the most sought after 'commodity' these days, what with paid likes etc. This is next-level fake reviews! I wouldn't be surprised it's eventually become a business in and of itself, like some shady companies in eg China farm games to sell accounts and items to rich players who'd rather pay money than time.
- gorpomon 7y agoI just encountered this: a product with numerous reviews but many of them talking about a different item. I assumed it was some id getting migrated or not migrated and as a result reviews ending up on the wrong item-- it didn't even occur to me that it might be intentional. As annoying as scams like these are, they really speak to the ingenuity that folks bring to software and their attacks of it. I already know to not trust most things on the internet, but I can't help but admire them either.
- Fnoord 7y agoAh, I saw something akin to this in like 2012 (but I guess the Ship of Theseus was a change in username only) when I used to buy WoW gold on eBay (yeah, I know..). At one point the seller quit selling WoW gold, changed their name, and started selling sunglasses.
- jotm 7y agoHaha, I'll admit I did this with several accounts. It was even possible to build up a good feedback by buying cheap stuff. Then start to sell whatever you want. Easy way to avoid the ridiculous holds on funds and limited PayPal accounts due to "not enough feedback".
- headmelted 7y agoI tend to buy from Amazon whenever I can for the pain-free returns. You’re not wrong - the reviews are utter trash and have no credibility at all anymore - so I look elsewhere for reviews on what I’m buying. I mostly avoid the counterfeiting problem by sticking to branded goods that aren’t easy to convincingly fake. Any problems and it goes back for Amazon to deal with.
- avip 7y ago>branded goods that aren’t easy to convincingly fake s.a Apple power adapters?
- privateSFacct 7y agoHaha - I got burned by this so many times in a row trying to buy genuine I bought direct from apple. Some of the fakes are terrible some ok but none genuine
- Symbiote 7y ago> I got burned by this With chargers, it's a real possibility that you mean this literally. People's houses have burned down due to fake chargers that don't comply with CE (or foreign equivalent) regulations.
- jarjoura 7y agoYup, I use Best Buy for all electronic purchases now. They have a great return policy and I enjoy that most things I could want are available same day. I pretty much only rely on Amazon for Kindle purchases now or to read reviews on big ticket items that I'm curious about.
- noir_lord 7y agoI went back to argos (UK retailer) for small stuff and ebuyer/aria for everything else tech related - they have the same range as amazon (in their domains), the same returns ease (better in the case of ebuyer in practive). I buy very little from Amazon, enough that I'm going to cancel prime since the only thing of theirs I still use is is Amazon Prime TV and well..its OK but not enough to justify it.
- LoSboccacc 7y agoi left Amazon too, now I either go to the manufacturer itself if I need the quality or cut the middleman and go directly on AliExpress if quality is not a concern.
- phatfish 7y agoI buy from Argos too, they also have a nice network of physical locations for in-store pickups. The prices are very close to Amazon usually, which really only wins on free delivery options. If you can pickup in store that's not an issue. Argos actually pay some tax as well.
- noir_lord 7y agoOn bigger items Argos do (or did at the time) free one day delivery, I ordered a new TV for Christmas a couple of years ago at 1pm and was sat watching crap Christmas movies with my family by 9pm, I mean Amazon can’t compete with that here yet.
- Groxx 7y agoIronically, I stopped using Best Buy at all due to their return policies. More than once I've had missing components from what I purchased. And they won't accept refunds or replacements unless all parts are included. Amazon takes nearly anything back, from my attempts.
- download13 7y agoThere's also a more subtle version of this, where the seller leaves the listing the same, but once enough positive reviews have accumulated they move production to a cheaper factory and use cheaper materials. So you might see older reviews for a pair of boots that say they're made from sturdy materials with good stitching, followed by later reviews saying that they didn't match the advertised sizing and pictures, or that they just fell apart after a couple weeks of use.
- agumonkey 7y agoThis is an accelerated variant of typical business evolution. How many high grade brands are now cashing on their name subtly. Seduction etc
- a3n 7y agoLike a box that remains the same size over the years, but the contents are gradually reduced. I would love to have "that much" Mike and Ike's, but it's never in there.
- agumonkey 7y agoThis is a fitting description of audio devices. What used to fill a box is now a 5mm chipset. The perverse effect is that the chip has 20x more options than the original device, so it looks better, but the quality and longevity may very well be degraded in disguise.
- dharmab 7y agoI have to laugh at how large my receiver is when I can peek into the "cooling vents" and clearly see a fairly small solid state board and a ton of empty space.
- tristor 7y agoDepending on your receiver, that may be because it’s trying to conform to chassis sizing requirements to be rack mountable (often via audio shelves, not rails). In the audio world many things use 19” comm racks, much like servers do.
- tombert 7y agoNot to mention that Walmart will very often have promotions with multiple different credit card companies to give you double (or sometimes even triple) points. When the prices are the same on Walmart or Amazon, I typically do Walmart now for that reason.
- noonespecial 7y agoI always leave a review. I always name the product I bought in the text of the review. Now I'm thinking I should take a picture as well.
- _wldu 7y ago+1 for Walmart. They will ship it to the store closest to you and it's the real deal (not a fake). I've done this a lot.
- zemnmez 7y agoI definitely saw something like this buying (of all things) underwear. calvin klein makes cotton underwear and the more expensive 'stretch cotton' underwear. The listing had a picture of the stretch cotton underwear, but I, and about 1/3rd of those with pictures in the reviews were getting regular cotton underwear
- baybal2 7y agoQuoting myself: > what the hell are these brands? This is what 1-man-brands are. I myself used to run a sunglasses brand in my student years :) Most are just dropshippers, or people working out of home. Recipe was simple: order cheapest 1 dollar sunglasses on Alibaba, have them put into fancy packaging and silkscreened with something Italian sounding. Then you make up a generic website with stock photos for your "brand" I was surprised with the amount of people keen to buy $100 to $200 sunglasses with nothing more than an Italian sounding brand name.
- dmix 7y agoThe Fakeslot chrome extension is pretty good at spotting fake reviews. I’m curious if it can detect transferred reviews...
- basq 7y agoBut then you're ordering from walmart...? A company decidedly worse than amazon by nearly every metric.