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If you asked me about 1password a few years ago, I would agree with you. Ever since they went to the cloud, I stopped using and recommending them to friends an

If you asked me about 1password a few years ago, I would agree with you. Ever since they went to the cloud, I stopped using and recommending them to friends and family. I now use Keypss, which is free and doesn't require the cloud. The only reason they went to the cloud is because most people were buying one copy and sharing it with multiple people. It's a way for them to make more money, which is fine, but I really don't think a cloud-based password solution is necessary. Edit: The 1password employees must be down voting me. It's ridiculous that I get down voted for a specific opinion about the topic.

overcast 7y ago
and the reason I went to their cloud solution, is so that I can sync passwords between my iPhone, Mac, PC, and Linux machines. It's $35.88 for an entire year of something that I use constantly, every day, and it works perfectly.
- ahuth 7y ago
  Agreed. It's so nice updating/creating a password on desktop, and being able to use it immediately and seamlessly on my phone or other machines. This seamlessness is also critical for my less-technical family members on my plan. They want the better security, and recognize that a password manager is necessary. But if it was a pain to use they wouldn't put up with it.
- braythwayt 7y ago
  FWIW, if you have DropBox, they can sync passwords via DropBox, giving you many of the same benefits as their cloud solution. You can use the pay-one-price license if you already have the motivation to use DropBox.
  - overcast 7y ago
    That's not going to work outside of Mac or PC. Linux is a browser plugin.
    - braythwayt 7y ago
      I agree that the DropBox integration isn't for everyone. Even if you have just Macs and iOS devices as I do, DropBox is much more expensive, so it's not worth getting just to sync passwords. But on the other hand, for users who have DropBox already—possibly because they aren't using Linux—this does allow them to sync passwords without paying another $40 a year.
- slantyyz 7y ago
  For me, the sync has been less than perfect (Windows + Android user) on more than one occasion. There used to be a force sync button way back when, but it has since been removed as far as I can tell. I had to Google a workaround (creating a dummy secure note was one workaround) for the times the sync wouldn't work. I asked why there was no Force Sync button on their support forums, and was told that they took it out because they want their paying customers to report sync issues with an error report instead of giving them an instant fix via the button. Needless to say, as someone who has been using and paying for 1PW (upgrades and subs) since around 2008, I was not impressed with that response. To me, the Windows and Android clients seem to be second-class citizens compared to their Apple counterparts.
- benhurmarcel 7y ago
  >and Linux machines They don't have a proper Linux client
woah 7y ago
I downvoted you because you’re complaining about downvotes
sagichmal 7y ago
> Ever since they went to the cloud, I stopped using and recommending them to friends and family. The whole point of using a password manager is that the passwords I create and use on my {desktop, laptop, work machine, phone} are immediately and seamlessly available to me on all of the other platforms. As far as I know it is Cloud integration which enables this absolutely necessary and table-stakes functionality. Is that not true? Does e.g. Keepass provide this essential functionality without a Cloud integration of some kind?
- robszumski 7y ago
  I'm not in a rush to put the holy grail of my personal info into someone's cloud service that I can't manage or securely delete. I think that KeePass + [Dropbox,Google Drive,etc] is the best solution. You can easily get these files on to your phone for passwords on the go.
  - sagichmal 7y ago
    > You can easily get these files on to your phone for passwords on the go. Something like 80% of the value prop of my password manager use is one-tap login (with FaceID) on mobile. Handwaving this away is failing to understand the product and market at a fundamental level. edit: literally a paper notebook with my passwords written in it is a better solution in essentially every dimension than a non-syncing password manager.
    - xmprt 7y ago
      I definitely see the benefit of storing my passwords locally and not some single point of failure, but I also wouldn't ever claim it's simple or even a good solution. It does help me ease up on creating new account to places I don't need because I think about having to create and sync up a new password between my devices.
      - ymolodtsov 7y ago
        How is that a single point of failure? You have downloaded copies on all your devices and the database is encrypted with your own master key, so even if 1Password is hacked there isn’t really a problem, just like LastPass hasn’t died when it had one.
ahupp 7y ago
The cloud storage isn't mandatory. Just keep using Dropbox (uhh, a different cloud?) if it bothers you. This is what I do, along with a perpetual license.
ramphastidae 7y ago
You’re probably being downvoted because of this statement, which is blatantly wrong: > The only reason they went to the cloud is because most people were buying one copy and sharing it with multiple people. It’s cloud-based because the majority of password management users want automatic cross-device updates without setting up their own server.
- gruez 7y ago
  >It’s cloud-based because the majority of password management users want automatic cross-device updates without setting up their own server. So? You can put the database on gdrive, icloud, dropbox, or any cloud service you want. I think most users understand the concept of creating a file, putting stuff in it, and putting it on a file syncing service (or usb drive).
  - ToFundorNot 7y ago
    Or you can build your own pc from open market components, or maybe build your own components by designing your own pcb and sourcing the chips, and write your own drivers, or... etc. Some people don't want to roll their own. You may, or may not agree with the concept of a fully managed solution, but for any non technical user, they want it to (borrow a phrase) "just work". It's the majority of the addressable market.
    - marmaduke 7y ago
      Even as a dev and ops engineer, or especially so perhaps, I want passwords to just work. Sure I could write my own but why.
      - gtf21 7y ago
        Couldn't agree more -- I have limited time in my life, time I don't want to spend maintaining absolutely every service I use. Very happy to pay someone else to build good software and make the pain go away.
  - 7y ago
munchbunny 7y ago
> The 1password employees must be down voting me. It's ridiculous that I get down voted for a specific opinion about the topic. I was going to just disagree with you without downvoting, because I specifically was looking for cross device sync and mobile support (and specifically looked for a mobile app that supported using FIDO as a second factor to protect the vault. However, attributing downvotes to employees/shills shows an inability to consider that there may be a good counter argument.
- TimTheTinker 7y ago
  I appreciate the subscription model, since it aligns with the fact that secure products must continue to be developed to stay secure. Security is a process, not a destination.
  - GordonS 7y ago
    I used to feel very differently about this as a consumer, but when you see things from the other side as an ISV, it's obvious that a one-time fee isn't a sustainable business model - if you want the software to remain available, you need to pay for the duration. A SaaS model works well for both sides, I think - consumers always have the latest version and their data is highly available and safe against local events (storage failure, fire, flood etc); the business has (relatively) reliay income stream.
    - wokkel 7y ago
      The duration of the isv cloud contract you mean. I have ple ty of perfectly running applications where the vendor has long gone. Also, i hate paying for a relatively small feature such as a password manager. Keepass on a webdrive offers the same for free and i get to look at the source as well which in my opinion is a requirement for something zo fundamental.
      - GordonS 7y ago
        > I have ple ty of perfectly running applications where the vendor has long gone Hmm, thinking about it, for simple image editing stuff I still use a version of Paint Shop Pro from something like 10-15 years ago, and it still works great. I think then that it depends on the kind of software, and the expectations of the user: is it beneficial to store data in the cloud for easy access from multiple devices?; do you want security updates? do you want new features?; do you want support? I also use Keepass, with passwords stored on a cheap VPS using SFTP. Works great on Android with Keepass2Android too. But of course, this is not something a general comsumer is going to setup.

overcast 7y ago

and the reason I went to their cloud solution, is so that I can sync passwords between my iPhone, Mac, PC, and Linux machines. It's $35.88 for an entire year of something that I use constantly, every day, and it works perfectly.

ahuth 7y ago
Agreed. It's so nice updating/creating a password on desktop, and being able to use it immediately and seamlessly on my phone or other machines. This seamlessness is also critical for my less-technical family members on my plan. They want the better security, and recognize that a password manager is necessary. But if it was a pain to use they wouldn't put up with it.
braythwayt 7y ago
FWIW, if you have DropBox, they can sync passwords via DropBox, giving you many of the same benefits as their cloud solution. You can use the pay-one-price license if you already have the motivation to use DropBox.
- overcast 7y ago
  That's not going to work outside of Mac or PC. Linux is a browser plugin.
  - braythwayt 7y ago
    I agree that the DropBox integration isn't for everyone. Even if you have just Macs and iOS devices as I do, DropBox is much more expensive, so it's not worth getting just to sync passwords. But on the other hand, for users who have DropBox already—possibly because they aren't using Linux—this does allow them to sync passwords without paying another $40 a year.
slantyyz 7y ago
For me, the sync has been less than perfect (Windows + Android user) on more than one occasion. There used to be a force sync button way back when, but it has since been removed as far as I can tell. I had to Google a workaround (creating a dummy secure note was one workaround) for the times the sync wouldn't work. I asked why there was no Force Sync button on their support forums, and was told that they took it out because they want their paying customers to report sync issues with an error report instead of giving them an instant fix via the button. Needless to say, as someone who has been using and paying for 1PW (upgrades and subs) since around 2008, I was not impressed with that response. To me, the Windows and Android clients seem to be second-class citizens compared to their Apple counterparts.
benhurmarcel 7y ago
>and Linux machines They don't have a proper Linux client

woah 7y ago

I downvoted you because you’re complaining about downvotes

sagichmal 7y ago

> Ever since they went to the cloud, I stopped using and recommending them to friends and family. The whole point of using a password manager is that the passwords I create and use on my {desktop, laptop, work machine, phone} are immediately and seamlessly available to me on all of the other platforms. As far as I know it is Cloud integration which enables this absolutely necessary and table-stakes functionality. Is that not true? Does e.g. Keepass provide this essential functionality without a Cloud integration of some kind?

robszumski 7y ago
I'm not in a rush to put the holy grail of my personal info into someone's cloud service that I can't manage or securely delete. I think that KeePass + [Dropbox,Google Drive,etc] is the best solution. You can easily get these files on to your phone for passwords on the go.
- sagichmal 7y ago
  > You can easily get these files on to your phone for passwords on the go. Something like 80% of the value prop of my password manager use is one-tap login (with FaceID) on mobile. Handwaving this away is failing to understand the product and market at a fundamental level. edit: literally a paper notebook with my passwords written in it is a better solution in essentially every dimension than a non-syncing password manager.
  - xmprt 7y ago
    I definitely see the benefit of storing my passwords locally and not some single point of failure, but I also wouldn't ever claim it's simple or even a good solution. It does help me ease up on creating new account to places I don't need because I think about having to create and sync up a new password between my devices.
    - ymolodtsov 7y ago
      How is that a single point of failure? You have downloaded copies on all your devices and the database is encrypted with your own master key, so even if 1Password is hacked there isn’t really a problem, just like LastPass hasn’t died when it had one.

ahupp 7y ago

The cloud storage isn't mandatory. Just keep using Dropbox (uhh, a different cloud?) if it bothers you. This is what I do, along with a perpetual license.

ramphastidae 7y ago

You’re probably being downvoted because of this statement, which is blatantly wrong: > The only reason they went to the cloud is because most people were buying one copy and sharing it with multiple people. It’s cloud-based because the majority of password management users want automatic cross-device updates without setting up their own server.

gruez 7y ago
>It’s cloud-based because the majority of password management users want automatic cross-device updates without setting up their own server. So? You can put the database on gdrive, icloud, dropbox, or any cloud service you want. I think most users understand the concept of creating a file, putting stuff in it, and putting it on a file syncing service (or usb drive).
- ToFundorNot 7y ago
  Or you can build your own pc from open market components, or maybe build your own components by designing your own pcb and sourcing the chips, and write your own drivers, or... etc. Some people don't want to roll their own. You may, or may not agree with the concept of a fully managed solution, but for any non technical user, they want it to (borrow a phrase) "just work". It's the majority of the addressable market.
  - marmaduke 7y ago
    Even as a dev and ops engineer, or especially so perhaps, I want passwords to just work. Sure I could write my own but why.
    - gtf21 7y ago
      Couldn't agree more -- I have limited time in my life, time I don't want to spend maintaining absolutely every service I use. Very happy to pay someone else to build good software and make the pain go away.
- 7y ago

munchbunny 7y ago

> The 1password employees must be down voting me. It's ridiculous that I get down voted for a specific opinion about the topic. I was going to just disagree with you without downvoting, because I specifically was looking for cross device sync and mobile support (and specifically looked for a mobile app that supported using FIDO as a second factor to protect the vault. However, attributing downvotes to employees/shills shows an inability to consider that there may be a good counter argument.

TimTheTinker 7y ago
I appreciate the subscription model, since it aligns with the fact that secure products must continue to be developed to stay secure. Security is a process, not a destination.
- GordonS 7y ago
  I used to feel very differently about this as a consumer, but when you see things from the other side as an ISV, it's obvious that a one-time fee isn't a sustainable business model - if you want the software to remain available, you need to pay for the duration. A SaaS model works well for both sides, I think - consumers always have the latest version and their data is highly available and safe against local events (storage failure, fire, flood etc); the business has (relatively) reliay income stream.
  - wokkel 7y ago
    The duration of the isv cloud contract you mean. I have ple ty of perfectly running applications where the vendor has long gone. Also, i hate paying for a relatively small feature such as a password manager. Keepass on a webdrive offers the same for free and i get to look at the source as well which in my opinion is a requirement for something zo fundamental.
    - GordonS 7y ago
      > I have ple ty of perfectly running applications where the vendor has long gone Hmm, thinking about it, for simple image editing stuff I still use a version of Paint Shop Pro from something like 10-15 years ago, and it still works great. I think then that it depends on the kind of software, and the expectations of the user: is it beneficial to store data in the cloud for easy access from multiple devices?; do you want security updates? do you want new features?; do you want support? I also use Keepass, with passwords stored on a cheap VPS using SFTP. Works great on Android with Keepass2Android too. But of course, this is not something a general comsumer is going to setup.