4 ms·

I think one major reason that modern adolescents can be so moody, impulsive, and irresponsible is widespread chronic sleep deprivation. Adolescents naturally h

I think one major reason that modern adolescents can be so moody, impulsive, and irresponsible is widespread chronic sleep deprivation. Adolescents naturally have very late-shifted chronotypes. I.e. compared to older adults they tend to wake late in the day and stay up late at night. Yet American high schools have ridiculously early start times. For example it's not unusual for schools to start at dawn. Which means students taking the bus may have to leave before dawn. We have decades of research demonstrating the impact of sleep deprivation on cognitive functioning, decision making judgement and emotional stability. It's little wonder that a segment of society that we're forcing into chronic sleep deprivation acts "immature". We just don't recognize the problem because it's too easy for us old folks to write off the symptoms as the "foibles of youth". Yet it's us old folks pushing these torturous schedules onto teens, despite mountains of scientific evidence saying otherwise.

TeMPOraL 7y ago
> We just don't recognize the problem because it's too easy for us old folks to write off the symptoms as the "foibles of youth". We also don't recognize it because our salary literally depends on not recognizing it - when both parents work, school times have to match the typical workday, with an extra offset for commute.
- pbhjpbhj 7y ago
  Adult partners both working has really screwed things up in a lot of ways. But, AIUI you have the cause and effect the wrong way here - when many more people entered full-time work then wages have adjusted downwards. Society "chose" this situation; mind you I'm pretty sure we didn't accommodate teen brain in the past when that would have been possible (in middle class families, where a caregiver was home).
- flukus 7y ago
  Teens are more than old enough to get themselves up and at school without parents being there.
watwut 7y ago
I pretty much guarantee you that neither rural farm teens nor city factory working teens in past centuries were allowed to sleep till 10. They had to wake up when everyone woke up to work.
- alpaca128 7y ago
  And I guarantee you that these teens in past centuries didn't like it either. There's a reason our living conditions are significantly better today, and we didn't reach that state by repeating the same dumb mistakes every time.
  - Yajirobe 7y ago
    So when/where did we branch out from the evolutionary-preferred routine? When were the teenagers waking up late during the day?
    - chongli 7y ago
      In hunter-gatherer societies. Teens were full adults who could marry. They could stay up late, having sex all they wanted. There was no need to get up early since there were no cows to milk or any other chores like that. Life was governed only by the sun, not artificial clocks.
      - Xelbair 7y ago
        If i recall right in hunter-gatherer societies people were naturally divided into different sleeping schedules - some wake up at dawn, other at noon etc. The whole community was always at least partially awake. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/personal-health-mastery/201708/what-hunter-gatherers-tell-us-about-natural-sleep-patterns https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/personal-health-mast...
      - ntsplnkv2 7y ago
        Just a side note on these kind of things, how do we actually know? It seems with evolution, there are always these "common sense" answers. Oh, no cows to milk! no need to get up early, hence, teens have a different clock? It just seems like handwavy nonsense that makes "common sense" to us and it's accepted. School just sucks. It sucked when I was well rested and it sucked when I wasn't. Sleep deprivation may impact peformance. but I know one thing - the later I could wake up, the later I stayed up. Curious to see how these changes in California actually impact students.
BiteCode_dev 7y ago
Plus, they lived their entire live in a world with: - sugar everywhere - deficit in many important nutriments - attention depleting tech and env - boomer culture messages in a post 2000 economy and social climate - low but continuous stressing life style - micro doses of thousands of pollutants in food, air and water I have seen first hand how working those improved my quality of life, and I have not even lived my all life on those conditions. I find it amazing how resilient they are, considering.
- gowld 7y ago
  Can you explains why even Boomers were moody teens before all this happened?
  - BiteCode_dev 7y ago
    Moody is too vague. I'm more interested in measurable symptoms. E.G: teens have menstruations sooner on average, and boys have a fully develop hormonal system later on average than boomers. They have more adhd, are more obeses, have more cases of diabetes, have less confidence in the future or trust in the institutions. And yes, that all translates to attitude.

TeMPOraL 7y ago

> We just don't recognize the problem because it's too easy for us old folks to write off the symptoms as the "foibles of youth". We also don't recognize it because our salary literally depends on not recognizing it - when both parents work, school times have to match the typical workday, with an extra offset for commute.

pbhjpbhj 7y ago
Adult partners both working has really screwed things up in a lot of ways. But, AIUI you have the cause and effect the wrong way here - when many more people entered full-time work then wages have adjusted downwards. Society "chose" this situation; mind you I'm pretty sure we didn't accommodate teen brain in the past when that would have been possible (in middle class families, where a caregiver was home).
flukus 7y ago
Teens are more than old enough to get themselves up and at school without parents being there.

watwut 7y ago

I pretty much guarantee you that neither rural farm teens nor city factory working teens in past centuries were allowed to sleep till 10. They had to wake up when everyone woke up to work.

alpaca128 7y ago
And I guarantee you that these teens in past centuries didn't like it either. There's a reason our living conditions are significantly better today, and we didn't reach that state by repeating the same dumb mistakes every time.
- Yajirobe 7y ago
  So when/where did we branch out from the evolutionary-preferred routine? When were the teenagers waking up late during the day?
  - chongli 7y ago
    In hunter-gatherer societies. Teens were full adults who could marry. They could stay up late, having sex all they wanted. There was no need to get up early since there were no cows to milk or any other chores like that. Life was governed only by the sun, not artificial clocks.
    - Xelbair 7y ago
      If i recall right in hunter-gatherer societies people were naturally divided into different sleeping schedules - some wake up at dawn, other at noon etc. The whole community was always at least partially awake. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/personal-health-mastery/201708/what-hunter-gatherers-tell-us-about-natural-sleep-patterns https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/personal-health-mast...
    - ntsplnkv2 7y ago
      Just a side note on these kind of things, how do we actually know? It seems with evolution, there are always these "common sense" answers. Oh, no cows to milk! no need to get up early, hence, teens have a different clock? It just seems like handwavy nonsense that makes "common sense" to us and it's accepted. School just sucks. It sucked when I was well rested and it sucked when I wasn't. Sleep deprivation may impact peformance. but I know one thing - the later I could wake up, the later I stayed up. Curious to see how these changes in California actually impact students.

BiteCode_dev 7y ago

Plus, they lived their entire live in a world with: - sugar everywhere - deficit in many important nutriments - attention depleting tech and env - boomer culture messages in a post 2000 economy and social climate - low but continuous stressing life style - micro doses of thousands of pollutants in food, air and water I have seen first hand how working those improved my quality of life, and I have not even lived my all life on those conditions. I find it amazing how resilient they are, considering.

gowld 7y ago
Can you explains why even Boomers were moody teens before all this happened?
- BiteCode_dev 7y ago
  Moody is too vague. I'm more interested in measurable symptoms. E.G: teens have menstruations sooner on average, and boys have a fully develop hormonal system later on average than boomers. They have more adhd, are more obeses, have more cases of diabetes, have less confidence in the future or trust in the institutions. And yes, that all translates to attitude.