12 ms·
The 16-Inch MacBook Pro
- brandonfro 7y agoStrange to be getting a "Page Not Found" error on this link: https://www.apple.com/us/shop/go/macbook_pro/select https://www.apple.com/us/shop/go/macbook_pro/select Usually they put up the splash page prior to new Macs being available.
- ihuman 7y agoAre you looking for this page? The 13 and 16 inches now have separate pages to select which version you want to buy. https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/16-inch https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/16-inch
- kossTKR 7y agoI know this is becoming repetitive, but seriously still no optional touchbar? I mean for gods sake, why? Doesn't pretty much all professionals from programmers to editors to musicians _still_ use function keys as part of their workflow when touch-typing? I mean if the touchbar was above the function keys it would be an added bonus, but removing function keys for "professionals" is like telling a pianist that he now has to play on a touch-keyboard with no tangents. I am more than ready to pay for an upgrade but now i am going to keep my still excellent 2014 pro with no stupid gimmicks and a good keyboard. EDIT: To all the people downvoting me, why? Why on earth earth downvote a fellow pro addressing an obvious downgrade - am i missing something? Why jump on a bandwagon an "be an optimist" or "stop complaining" if this gimmick makes coding/working slower for us? It reminds me of when most of the pro market fled the revamped Final Cut X Suite which was so dumbed down it was almost a "kids editing program" while Apple gave no fucks. EDIT2: To all the people saying they don't use F keys. I simply don't believe you. You also control brightness, volume and playback with these buttons and i have never seen anyone NOT using these keys without looking. Especially the volume keys all the way to the right tap-tap-tap without looking - i know you have done this ha!
- dvcrn 7y agoDid you try embracing the bar? It saves a lot of time in apps that integrate it well and you can customize it easily for other actions that fit your needs more. It’s especially nice when it doesn’t just display buttons but also sliders and pickers. I also prefer this way Of adjusting my MacBook screen brightness, volume and other quick actions. Of course if you just set it to display F keys it’s a downgrade. I use it a lot when I’m not on an external screen in media apps like photo or video editing, but I’m also the kind of person that never found f keys useful
- jryan49 7y agoI did I can't muscle memory anything because of the lack of tactile feedback. I have to look down everytime. I use the F keys a lot for intellij
- zchrykng 7y agoYou have to actually look at it to use it, which makes it categorically worse than the older real keys. Also until you have access to it on desktops and all of the laptops it doesn't make sense to adapt your workflow to it if you use multiple computers.
- kossTKR 7y agoI have one of the first versions from work. And i am all for embracing if it actually made editing/coding faster for me but i just doesn't. I thinks the idea is fine if the function keys were still there. Rant alert on tech-tactility: I know it's pure anecdata but using the "sense of touch" when typing must surely be faster than having to context-switch while you have to precisely target a point on the screen with no sense-data to go with it. I feel "alienated" by the cold dead glass texture of modern interfaces on large hard glass screens. There is just not enough feedback in my opinion which is why i still somewhat miss old cellphones with real keyboards. Also i think our primal brain actually prefers having switches and buttons, just as kids do from the earliest years. I am pretty sure there as also been some research into worsening performance from pilots when testing touch screens because you have loose the sense of both shape, touch and placement (space) - that's a lot of data you are sacrificing for the dynamism of a touchscreen. Humans a tactile creatures and cold/hard/featureless glass screens are just not still as appealing as buttons and switches. It wouldn't actually surprise me if you got less of a dopamine response when typing on a glass screen compared to something with way more feedback, say an old keyboard with a lot of travel or a typewriter if you want to go crazy (as some authors do exactly because they feel like typing on modern keyboards is frustrating and "responseless"). This is also why i think a bit of DIY or gardening can be such a relief especially these days, because when you work with tech there is no feedback at all compared to real toolwork. And it seems to be worsening. Today is already way different than the tactile feedback you got with a computer from 2002 with a keyboard that said "click", where you could feel a "micro sense" of accomplishment/affirmation when you pushed it, then listen to harddisk respond with the "reading" sound. Sounds have also largely been removed and for good reason but this combined with all other feedback being removed and using tech can feel like yelling at a stone wall sometimes. The other day i tried using an old compaq computer from 1999 and i swear i got asmr-tingles and quite a dopamine rush just from the clickity-clack of it all, the harddisk sound, the small thraschan animation and sounds etc. Not just nostalgia but just the joy of getting feedback.
- mcculley 7y agoStill no LTE modem?
- api 7y agoThere are tiny USB ones and WiFi ones that are okay, but it would be a neat option. It better be unlocked of course for a laptop.
- mcculley 7y agoThere's a tiny one in the Apple Watch, the iPhone, the iPad, and in laptops from other manufacturers.
- lgats 7y agoI don't see why Apple hasn't teamed up with cell companies to offer this feature. I'd certainly pay for LTE to be available immediately when I open my laptop wherever I am. Plus track it wherever it goes (if it's stolen).
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- nottorp 7y ago<quote> And keystrokes will probably work, 100% of the time, for years!</quote> How does he know? Sounds overoptimistic to me.
- defap 7y agoHe doesn’t know, hence the “probably”. It’s a good guess though, based on the known reliability of the wireless Magic Keyboard.
- nottorp 7y agoI doubt many people use a wireless Magic Keyboard outdoors. I've used my last 3 apple laptops outside though... first two had no keyboard problems, the 2018 failed in less than 6 months.
- shakezula 7y agoI dunno where you're at but where I'm from, the Magic keyboards are ubiquitous and generally viewed positively. I'm using one right now and I have always really liked the way they feel, and I'm a mech snob.
- drngdds 7y agoI'm very proud of them for coming up with a keyboard that's almost as good as the one on the $700 laptop I had nine years ago
- neonate 7y agoThat could actually be a hard thing to achieve given the other design constraints.
- syadegari 7y agoIt's good to see that the physical escape key is back!
- jacknews 7y agoThe lack of it on 2016 mbp made me re-assign the caps-lock key to ESC, and in fact this is the correct place for it anyway - much more natural than as an extra F-key.
- hanniabu 7y agoOn every keyboard the escape key is at the top left.
- wffurr 7y agoIncorrect: https://catonmat.net/why-vim-uses-hjkl-as-arrow-keys https://catonmat.net/why-vim-uses-hjkl-as-arrow-keys The keyboard vim was designed for had ESC where tab is on modern keyboards.
- thisisbrians 7y agoAs a Vim user, I'd highly recommend this to anyone — even if you have a physical ESC key.
- sixothree 7y agoStill no number pad though.
- derekp7 7y agoWhy would you want two sets of number keys on the keyboard? Except for the case of one-handed exclusive numeric input. The biggest problem with a number pad on a laptop, is it puts the rest of the keyboard off-center from the screen. No way around that I can think of.
- 7y ago
- api 7y agoThis... sounds... like... they... listened to their customers! Listening to customers is a fine art. It can be a bad thing if you listen slavishly without thinking. You'll end up with a haphazard ball of features. This looks like they listened and understood what power-user customers wanted: a true pro machine that remains quite portable and aesthetically pleasing. IMHO the 13-inch Pro should just be the MacBook, and of course the Air is great for people who want a tiny lightweight "ultrabook" type machine. You'd have: Macbook: the current 13-inch Pro Macbook Pro: the 16-inch Macbook Air: the ultralight I really hope this is the mid-oughts Apple coming back. Bravo!
- dddddaviddddd 7y agoA top risk when listening to customers is to only hear those who are unsatisfied (and may not even be the target market) versus users who are happy with the product and have nothing to say.
- AtlasBarfed 7y agoWhen it comes to MBPs being used daily for 8+ hours by a host of smart people, you absolutely can get really good customer feedback, and the fact it took this long still shows Apple isn't listening much and has a lot of managerial and product development inefficiency and problems. They still are shoving the touchbar down people's throats, they just aren't using a piledriver at the moment. An option for legacy ports (USB3/HDMI/minithunderbolt) would have been very nice. But it's apple, for a new-age company with new-age CEO and new-age values, they are very stubborn and closed minded.
- jandrese 7y agoI don't think it's a bad thing to listen to customers when they say "We want a keyboard that actually works."
- HorizonXP 7y agoI bought an MBP 15” back in 2013, and still use it to this day. I might benefit from an upgrade, but haven’t seen an immediate need to. Seeing this new 16”, I am so glad I skipped upgrading and waited. I still might not, but at least I won’t be dealing with regressions if I do.
- Japhy_Ryder 7y agoSame here. I have the most spec'd-out Fall 2013 MBP and it's still perfect to this day.
- mrpippy 7y agoMe three. I'm even seriously considering having Apple replace the battery in mine (it was swelling a few years ago)
- api 7y agoWait a bit and you can get a higher quality version at a lower price. It's called Apple's Refurbished units. They've been through QA twice. :)
- wjp3 7y agoLikewise, still using my mid-2015 15" rMBP.
- ja27 7y agoYeah I grabbed a used 2015 last year and mostly love it. Definitely been feeling the need for new and shiny lately so I'm glad my wait is over.
- koffiekop 7y agoWho uses their arrows for gaming?
- jacknews 7y agoOK, but let's see in 6 months or a year if the keycaps all start breaking off, and the switches either freeze up or double-type. trust needs to be regained.
- notjustanymike 7y agoStill better than the current MacBook, sold!
- joeraut 7y agoNot sure whether to be relieved or concerned that this MBP isn't part of their extended keyboard repair program, but I'm leaning towards the former.
- arthurcolle 7y agoI wonder if the keyboard works this time.
- ppeetteerr 7y agoI love that Apple replaced their 15in offerings with this 16in model. The price is perfect and the lack of a 15in makes the selection process so much easier. With this MacBook and the Mac Pro, Apple is really getting a great lineup of products. Well done!
- jsight 7y agoI'm not sure that $2400 with 16 GB of RAM is what I would call "perfect".
- ppeetteerr 7y agoIt's in the top tier price range but I can assure you that, for the price, you get one hell of a machine.
- smnrchrds 7y agoAt least it comes with an SSD, unlike their iMacs which they still sell with 8GB of RAM and spinning rust disks.
- AtlasBarfed 7y agoAnd that SSD costs per GB, what, 10x what you can get from newegg on an NVMe? And that's a consumer retail price rather than what Apple gets to pay an OEM bulk order? Google/Samsung/etc aren't much better. SSD prices in phones and laptops are such a fraud.
- ppeetteerr 7y agoI don't think you get the same performance from a newegg ssd than you get with the soldered ssd on a MacBook.
- donatj 7y agoWell now I am really kicking myself. I just got a new 15” MacBook Pro a couple weeks ago because my video card fried in my 2013. If I had just held out I could have had a glorious escape key and old style arrow layout... GAH
- snowwrestler 7y agoIf it really was a couple of weeks you may be within the return window.
- donatj 7y agoIt’s my work machine, I don’t think I could talk them into that.
- vemv 7y agoWondering if the choice of a 16" screen was mainly for thermal reasons (bigger screen -> bigger chasis overall). FWIW 6-core over 15" (2019 model) is working nicely for me, but I suspect 8-core might be a bit too much for 15". Experience reports welcome.
- SkyPuncher 7y agoThe chassis is barely larger (someone did a calculation in another thread). They basically made the bezel smaller (thank goodness).
- swiftcoder 7y agoThe chassis is actually smaller than the beloved 2013 MacBook Pro. It's only regressed slightly from the 2017 and 2018 models.
- LeftHandPath 7y agoI'm starting to believe that 2010 to 2013 were peak Apple, at least from a consumer product perspective.
- option 7y agoStill no NVIDIA GPU - so not for writing deep learning code. Also no ray tracing in games :(
- mchen076 7y agoThere's tones of open-source frameworks for running on non NVIDIA systems.
- Four8Five 7y agoFinally an upgrade worth of replacing my 2015 rMBP 15.
- throwawaysea 7y agoHow are Radeon GPUs for ML applications these days? I always found it strange that the dev community was willing to invest in proprietary CUDA.
- hkchad 7y agoPointless, just spin up a GPU instance in AWS. I use a MBP for ML but anything that needs GPU is better off running OFF my laptop.
- throwawaysea 7y agoI’m not an expert on this topic so apologies if this is a basic question. Isn’t it annoying / time intensive / costly to rely solely on cloud GPUs when trying to learn or have hobby projects in ML? Is it really so practical that a local GPU has no value?
- mchen076 7y ago"Isn’t it annoying / time intensive / costly to rely solely on cloud GPUs when trying to learn or have hobby projects in ML?" No, it's all of those things when you use them professionally as well. There's a couple of things that people (usually business/operations people) overlook with respect to the cloud. Let's take a look: 1. The cost of compute clouds grows exponentially with every addition. Need an SSD? Extra money. Need an extra large HDD? Extra money. Need it on a secure private network? Extra money. You can very easily rack up the cost of a single local GPU system per-user per-year if you work on the cloud as a large organization. 2. Security: The cloud causes a lot of privacy issues and security issues. Are you a government agency with confidential information? Do you need to keep exact track of where it is at all times? The cloud will never let you do this. 3. Connectivity: I've yet to have any cloud provider provide uptime on the level that a local GPU box can provide. Our record cloud down-time was over a week. For these reasons, in larger organizations, cloud tends to get a lot of push back. Unfortunately, this is largely ignored by executives who have drank the cool-aid from Microsoft and think "cloud is the future"
- cirgue 7y ago
- jolmg 7y agoThere's this duplicate thread with more discussion. It points to Apple's website, though: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21523780 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21523780
- jackhack 7y agoFor me, this is the takeaway quote : "The biggest change is that I finally don’t feel like it’s constantly fighting me. Its design doesn’t feel spiteful."
- clarkmoody 7y agoIt really is a testament to how "great" design can handicap great products. It's 2019. Computer makers have been designing electronic keyboards for close to 50 years. Typewriter keyboards have been around since the 1870s. For a century and a half we've been designing and building ways of getting alphanumeric characters from brains to machines. Apple is one of the most valuable companies in history building hardware that a large portion of the professional computer user workforce use on a daily basis. For them to make such an egregious error as shipping fatally-flawed keyboards should teach us two things: - Humility. We can all make big mistakes and shouldn't rely on track record to assume that everything we're doing now is the right thing. - Focus. Shifting its focus to design at the expense of human factors cause Apple to make a colossal blunder. This move back to a better keyboard, along with the Mac Pro (for what it's worth), are hopefully signs of Apple listening to some of its most important -- and seemingly neglected -- customers.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]