8 ms·

>It's not for beginners. Maybe true, but it's not just for experts either. OpenBSD's unfriendly reputation ensured that I languished in Linux land way longer t

>It's not for beginners. Maybe true, but it's not just for experts either. OpenBSD's unfriendly reputation ensured that I languished in Linux land way longer than I should have, convinced that I was too dumb for anything else. If you can navigate directory structure, use a package manager, and uncomment lines in config files, you can use OpenBSD. Try it already. It's good.

b3lvedere 7y ago
Well.. Debian was pretty straightforward to install and i've learned a lot from it. But OpenBSD was not. I don't know if the current OpenBSD installer has made it a lot easier. I just want a secure easy desktop with a frequently updated browser. I'd love to try OpenBSD again, but it scares me.
- clarry 7y ago
  Eh, it takes 5-10 minutes to install OpenBSD, it's very straightforward. The installer requires little more than tapping return a few times and entering a root password & optional user at some point. I've yet to see a Linux distro that is so fast and simple to install.
  - hal-9-000 7y ago
    Probably Slackware. Quite similar to OpenBSD although I did have a hard time with driver support. But if I remember correctly, installation was blazing fast and you'd get a barebone system up and running in no time.
    - smhenderson 7y ago
      Totally agree. I recently moved away from Debian after using it and OpenBSD for various things both at home and work. After trying a few different distros I gave Slackware a try because I had used it years and years ago. I bought a book, think around 1995, that came with Slackware on a CDROM so it was my first experience with Linux. I was pleasantly reminded how much Slackware still resembles BSD in how it configures things and it's emphasis on a minimal install that can be added to as needed. Other than new apps, a few improvements and, of course, updated hardware support Slackware has changed surprisingly little since I used it in 1995! Patrick Volkerding is a great maintainer and I really appreciate his efforts over the past few decades!
    - yellowapple 7y ago
      Slackware's certainly fast to install once you've gotten past partitioning, but partitioning is one of the things Slackware intentionally does not do for you in the installer. OpenBSD's a bit easier in that regard.
  - paulryanrogers 7y ago
    This depends on what you need out of it. I found it difficult to install despite being somewhat technical at the time. My goal was a secure desktop install.
  - b3lvedere 7y ago
    Thank you for your answer. I'll try it on some old laptop.
fierarul 7y ago
Considering how many people like to fiddle with ArchLinux there is a niche for everybody. Although I found that I barely have to touch my OpenBSD system... I don't use BSD on the desktop though, still need Java.
- clarry 7y ago
  http://openports.se/devel/jdk/11 http://openports.se/devel/jdk/11
- cyberpunk 7y ago
  I use IntelliJ on OpenBSD no problems (had to google some env var to set to make it render properly as I use a tiling window manager, apart from that it "just works"). One thing I do notice is OpenBSD's malloc implementation is much more serious about killing misbehaving apps so occasionally a process which does something it would get away with on linux/other will be taken out the back and lined up against the wall -- that's a feature and not a bug though (and configurable)
ainar-g 7y ago
To say nothing about the astonishing quality of the man pages and online documentation.
- llarsson 7y ago
  This is often presented as one of the strengths of OpenBSD. I find it hard to believe that Linux man pages are so far behind (why would they not be copied from BSD?), but do of course not claim that it would be impossible. Could someone please point to an example, so that the difference in quality becomes apparent?
  - IcePic 7y ago
    I know these are dist-specific issues, but it seems far easier on linux dists to end up with an installed program (from rmp/debs) and still don't have the manpages, OR, getting a dud manpage that tells you to run "info gnufrotzomatic" and then you run that and since there were no info pages, info will very helpfully tell you to run itself again, since it shows a manpage if the info page is missing. Semi-recent Centos7: $ which find /usr/bin/find $ rpm -q --whatprovides '/usr/bin/find' findutils-4.5.11-6.el7.x86_64 $ man find No manual entry for find $ more /etc/redhat-release CentOS Linux release 7.7.1908 (Core) So it claims to have the findutils rpm installed, which comes with manpages (especially since there is no find-man rpm) but I didn't get them for reasons. You just don't get that kind of experience on BSDs unless you very deliberately unmark manpages for installations. (which could be some kind of usecase, sure)
    - throw7 7y ago
      That's very strange. Probably centos is stripping "docfiles" from the installation (maybe a "container-optimized" install?). You can see which files are marked as documentation with "rpm -qd findutils". On my rhel 7, the man page is packaged along with findutils and I do see it.
    - somerandomqaguy 7y ago
      I'm seeing the man pages for find on my Centos 7.7 boxes. Are you looking at a docker container or a cloud image?
vorpalhex 7y ago
> OpenBSD's unfriendly reputation ensured that I languished in Linux land way longer than I should have Funny enough, OpenBSD's unfriendly behavior just had me go back to Linux land after running a FreeNAS server for two years. I got tired of every single help thread I was reading start with "Well you're stupid and you shouldn't do that" in one form or another. Once Ubuntu got mature ZFS support in mainline, I was out.
- boring_twenties 7y ago
  What does FreeNAS have to do with OpenBSD?
- chousuke 7y ago
  What does OpenBSD have to do with FreeNAS? Or did you just mean unfriendly behaviour in general. What I've noticed about the OpenBSD mailing lists is that while people are generally decent and helpful if you show that you put at least some effort into your question, I also see negative responses to the less good questions that are just not needed, and without value. I still like OpenBSD because it's just a good OS, but I think some people could stand to tune up their filters a bit.
- mistrial9 7y ago
  >FreeNAS is a free and open-source network-attached storage (NAS) software based on FreeBSD and the OpenZFS file system [0] So its a BSD, but not OpenBSD [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeNAS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeNAS
- rogueresearch 7y ago
  I have found the FreeNAS forums to be very helpful and friendly. Besides, like others said, FreeNAS is on FreeBSD, not OpenBSD.
- technofiend 7y ago
  >I got tired of every single help thread I was reading start with "Well you're stupid and you shouldn't do that" in one form or another. This is why I jokingly call OpenBSD a full contact operating system; interacting with the community can feel like being at the bottom of a rubgy scrum. Still, the hardware requirements are so low and configuration and management easy enough I use it on old refurbished PCs as a firewall. Any refurbished $100 PC from microcenter and a couple of Intel gigabit ethernet cards is enough to make a decent firewall as long as you don't have gigabit ethernet to your ISP. OpenBSD really shines on legacy hardware. I also enjoyed the fact it was the work of a few minutes to cut certificates for all my wifi devices and switch to certificate-based authentication instead of password-based. Unfortunately IOT vendors don't support that so you end up with a separate network just for semi-trusted devices.

b3lvedere 7y ago

Well.. Debian was pretty straightforward to install and i've learned a lot from it. But OpenBSD was not. I don't know if the current OpenBSD installer has made it a lot easier. I just want a secure easy desktop with a frequently updated browser. I'd love to try OpenBSD again, but it scares me.

clarry 7y ago
Eh, it takes 5-10 minutes to install OpenBSD, it's very straightforward. The installer requires little more than tapping return a few times and entering a root password & optional user at some point. I've yet to see a Linux distro that is so fast and simple to install.
- hal-9-000 7y ago
  Probably Slackware. Quite similar to OpenBSD although I did have a hard time with driver support. But if I remember correctly, installation was blazing fast and you'd get a barebone system up and running in no time.
  - smhenderson 7y ago
    Totally agree. I recently moved away from Debian after using it and OpenBSD for various things both at home and work. After trying a few different distros I gave Slackware a try because I had used it years and years ago. I bought a book, think around 1995, that came with Slackware on a CDROM so it was my first experience with Linux. I was pleasantly reminded how much Slackware still resembles BSD in how it configures things and it's emphasis on a minimal install that can be added to as needed. Other than new apps, a few improvements and, of course, updated hardware support Slackware has changed surprisingly little since I used it in 1995! Patrick Volkerding is a great maintainer and I really appreciate his efforts over the past few decades!
  - yellowapple 7y ago
    Slackware's certainly fast to install once you've gotten past partitioning, but partitioning is one of the things Slackware intentionally does not do for you in the installer. OpenBSD's a bit easier in that regard.
- paulryanrogers 7y ago
  This depends on what you need out of it. I found it difficult to install despite being somewhat technical at the time. My goal was a secure desktop install.
- b3lvedere 7y ago
  Thank you for your answer. I'll try it on some old laptop.

fierarul 7y ago

Considering how many people like to fiddle with ArchLinux there is a niche for everybody. Although I found that I barely have to touch my OpenBSD system... I don't use BSD on the desktop though, still need Java.

clarry 7y ago
http://openports.se/devel/jdk/11 http://openports.se/devel/jdk/11
cyberpunk 7y ago
I use IntelliJ on OpenBSD no problems (had to google some env var to set to make it render properly as I use a tiling window manager, apart from that it "just works"). One thing I do notice is OpenBSD's malloc implementation is much more serious about killing misbehaving apps so occasionally a process which does something it would get away with on linux/other will be taken out the back and lined up against the wall -- that's a feature and not a bug though (and configurable)

ainar-g 7y ago

To say nothing about the astonishing quality of the man pages and online documentation.

llarsson 7y ago
This is often presented as one of the strengths of OpenBSD. I find it hard to believe that Linux man pages are so far behind (why would they not be copied from BSD?), but do of course not claim that it would be impossible. Could someone please point to an example, so that the difference in quality becomes apparent?
- IcePic 7y ago
  I know these are dist-specific issues, but it seems far easier on linux dists to end up with an installed program (from rmp/debs) and still don't have the manpages, OR, getting a dud manpage that tells you to run "info gnufrotzomatic" and then you run that and since there were no info pages, info will very helpfully tell you to run itself again, since it shows a manpage if the info page is missing. Semi-recent Centos7: $ which find /usr/bin/find $ rpm -q --whatprovides '/usr/bin/find' findutils-4.5.11-6.el7.x86_64 $ man find No manual entry for find $ more /etc/redhat-release CentOS Linux release 7.7.1908 (Core) So it claims to have the findutils rpm installed, which comes with manpages (especially since there is no find-man rpm) but I didn't get them for reasons. You just don't get that kind of experience on BSDs unless you very deliberately unmark manpages for installations. (which could be some kind of usecase, sure)
  - throw7 7y ago
    That's very strange. Probably centos is stripping "docfiles" from the installation (maybe a "container-optimized" install?). You can see which files are marked as documentation with "rpm -qd findutils". On my rhel 7, the man page is packaged along with findutils and I do see it.
  - somerandomqaguy 7y ago
    I'm seeing the man pages for find on my Centos 7.7 boxes. Are you looking at a docker container or a cloud image?

vorpalhex 7y ago

> OpenBSD's unfriendly reputation ensured that I languished in Linux land way longer than I should have Funny enough, OpenBSD's unfriendly behavior just had me go back to Linux land after running a FreeNAS server for two years. I got tired of every single help thread I was reading start with "Well you're stupid and you shouldn't do that" in one form or another. Once Ubuntu got mature ZFS support in mainline, I was out.

boring_twenties 7y ago
What does FreeNAS have to do with OpenBSD?
chousuke 7y ago
What does OpenBSD have to do with FreeNAS? Or did you just mean unfriendly behaviour in general. What I've noticed about the OpenBSD mailing lists is that while people are generally decent and helpful if you show that you put at least some effort into your question, I also see negative responses to the less good questions that are just not needed, and without value. I still like OpenBSD because it's just a good OS, but I think some people could stand to tune up their filters a bit.
mistrial9 7y ago
>FreeNAS is a free and open-source network-attached storage (NAS) software based on FreeBSD and the OpenZFS file system [0] So its a BSD, but not OpenBSD [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeNAS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeNAS
rogueresearch 7y ago
I have found the FreeNAS forums to be very helpful and friendly. Besides, like others said, FreeNAS is on FreeBSD, not OpenBSD.
technofiend 7y ago
>I got tired of every single help thread I was reading start with "Well you're stupid and you shouldn't do that" in one form or another. This is why I jokingly call OpenBSD a full contact operating system; interacting with the community can feel like being at the bottom of a rubgy scrum. Still, the hardware requirements are so low and configuration and management easy enough I use it on old refurbished PCs as a firewall. Any refurbished $100 PC from microcenter and a couple of Intel gigabit ethernet cards is enough to make a decent firewall as long as you don't have gigabit ethernet to your ISP. OpenBSD really shines on legacy hardware. I also enjoyed the fact it was the work of a few minutes to cut certificates for all my wifi devices and switch to certificate-based authentication instead of password-based. Unfortunately IOT vendors don't support that so you end up with a separate network just for semi-trusted devices.