5 ms·

Can you elaborate on how you think Google is „fascist“?

erikpukinskis 7y ago
I think the idea is Google is a good tool for a hypothetical future fascist state to use. But I think their main concern was gentrification not fascism.
jussij 7y ago
Europe has lived history of governments collecting data on it's citizens. Since Google openly collects data on it's users, I suspect that fact does not sit well with that same populous.
- pteredactyl 7y ago
  False comparison. Google users are voluntary. No one forces someone to use Google like the Government forces someone to pay tax.
  - InternetOfStuff 7y ago
    > False comparison. Google users are voluntary. Not entirely. I can choose not to use Gmail or similar services. I can opt out of Google ads+tracking only because I'm technically adept enough. I can't (realistically) opt out of reCaptcha.
    - chii 7y ago
      You can opt out of recaptcha by just boycotting the website which uses it. But of course by "opt out" you mean to remain a user of a service but not the parts you don't like. Whether you are entitled to do this or not is still up for debate.
      - InternetOfStuff 7y ago
        > You can opt out of recaptcha by just boycotting the website which uses it. Ah, I was waiting for somebody to make this argument, which I find somewhat disingenuous given how widespread reCaptcha's use is. With sites I don't care about leaving them is exactly what I do - but there are sites I pay a lot of money to use, and can't really avoid using for business reasons, yet they still subject me to reCaptcha. The path I've taken instead is to address this with the site owners. Most weren't really aware of how overreaching reCaptcha feels to some, and I've had good discussions. Of course nobody changed their site based on my complaint, but I like to think I raised awareness. > But of course by "opt out" you mean to remain a user of a service but not the parts you don't like. Specifically, a part of user verification. I'm still not sure why they feel they need to verify my humanity - they've got my credit card details and everything. > Whether you are entitled to do this or not is still up for debate. Let me ask the opposite question: is the owner of a website entitled to sell my privacy for their own (debatable) convenience? Tbh reCaptcha irks me more than ads.
        TomMarius 7y ago
        >Let me ask the opposite question: is the owner of a website entitled to sell my privacy for their own (debatable) convenience? Well yeah, they are, you're accepting that by using the recaptcha widget. Don't use it and then nobody will sell your data.
      - atq2119 7y ago
        This is totally disingenuous, especially in a thread comparing to Tesla. With Tesla, I'm directly buying their product or not, and they do have competitors that I could choose from (not particularly great ones yet, I'll admit, but they do exist today and they're going to get there eventually). With Google's ad tech and captcha, my data is being siphoned off to them by third parties. I'm looking at totally unrelated service X, and suddenly I'm faced with Google. The burden of boycott becomes much higher than in the Tesla case, which makes it reasonable to state that opt-out is "not [practically] possible". The situations would be comparable if upon encountering a Google captcha I could choose to solve somebody else's captcha to access the same service.
        chii 7y ago
        > my data is being siphoned off to them by third parties. they are not "third-party". If a site uses google's products (like analytics or recaptcha), then you could reasonably consider them partner sites to google. Indeed, google is difficult to boycott - no one is diputing it. However, google obviously isn't very offensive to a large number of people, because there are very dedicated groups who dedicate time and energy into boycotting companies like nestle (which is _very_ difficult to boycott). May be a lot of laymen just don't think that their data is worth protecting (whether they are right or not remains to be seen).
  - LMYahooTFY 7y ago
    Google users are not the only target of Google's data mining, so this is extremely disingenuous. I'm not even sure how to define a Google user. Furthermore the comment seemed in reference to the origins of fascist political ideology in Europe and their relation to what happened when data mining was weaponized against a population.
- tjoff 7y ago
  Tesla does too. And it is much harder to get around it without modifying your Tesla. Not sure how they can be GDPR compliant, maybe it's only in the US where all cars are tracked in real-time?
  - ascorbic 7y ago
    After the most recent update I was asked whether I would give permission for video clips to be sent to Tesla to improve self-driving and sentry mode. It was optional. The GPS tracking is required if lots of features are to work, so permission isn't needed under GDRP unless it's also used for other purposes. There are details in their privacy policy: https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/about/legal https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/about/legal
    - tjoff 7y ago
      Thanks, that's sounds much better than what I've read before.
pilsetnieks 7y ago
Germans might be particularly sensitive about a Stasi-like surveillance apparatus.
pjc50 7y ago
I wasn't actually going to point to the surveillance question, and I didn't say that Google itself was fascist, but the parent poster seemed to think that antifa might have some opposition to google and did not offer their own reason.

I think the idea is Google is a good tool for a hypothetical future fascist state to use. But I think their main concern was gentrification not fascism.

jussij 7y ago

Europe has lived history of governments collecting data on it's citizens. Since Google openly collects data on it's users, I suspect that fact does not sit well with that same populous.

pteredactyl 7y ago
False comparison. Google users are voluntary. No one forces someone to use Google like the Government forces someone to pay tax.
- InternetOfStuff 7y ago
  > False comparison. Google users are voluntary. Not entirely. I can choose not to use Gmail or similar services. I can opt out of Google ads+tracking only because I'm technically adept enough. I can't (realistically) opt out of reCaptcha.
  - chii 7y ago
    You can opt out of recaptcha by just boycotting the website which uses it. But of course by "opt out" you mean to remain a user of a service but not the parts you don't like. Whether you are entitled to do this or not is still up for debate.
    - InternetOfStuff 7y ago
      > You can opt out of recaptcha by just boycotting the website which uses it. Ah, I was waiting for somebody to make this argument, which I find somewhat disingenuous given how widespread reCaptcha's use is. With sites I don't care about leaving them is exactly what I do - but there are sites I pay a lot of money to use, and can't really avoid using for business reasons, yet they still subject me to reCaptcha. The path I've taken instead is to address this with the site owners. Most weren't really aware of how overreaching reCaptcha feels to some, and I've had good discussions. Of course nobody changed their site based on my complaint, but I like to think I raised awareness. > But of course by "opt out" you mean to remain a user of a service but not the parts you don't like. Specifically, a part of user verification. I'm still not sure why they feel they need to verify my humanity - they've got my credit card details and everything. > Whether you are entitled to do this or not is still up for debate. Let me ask the opposite question: is the owner of a website entitled to sell my privacy for their own (debatable) convenience? Tbh reCaptcha irks me more than ads.
      - TomMarius 7y ago
        >Let me ask the opposite question: is the owner of a website entitled to sell my privacy for their own (debatable) convenience? Well yeah, they are, you're accepting that by using the recaptcha widget. Don't use it and then nobody will sell your data.
    - atq2119 7y ago
      This is totally disingenuous, especially in a thread comparing to Tesla. With Tesla, I'm directly buying their product or not, and they do have competitors that I could choose from (not particularly great ones yet, I'll admit, but they do exist today and they're going to get there eventually). With Google's ad tech and captcha, my data is being siphoned off to them by third parties. I'm looking at totally unrelated service X, and suddenly I'm faced with Google. The burden of boycott becomes much higher than in the Tesla case, which makes it reasonable to state that opt-out is "not [practically] possible". The situations would be comparable if upon encountering a Google captcha I could choose to solve somebody else's captcha to access the same service.
      - chii 7y ago
        > my data is being siphoned off to them by third parties. they are not "third-party". If a site uses google's products (like analytics or recaptcha), then you could reasonably consider them partner sites to google. Indeed, google is difficult to boycott - no one is diputing it. However, google obviously isn't very offensive to a large number of people, because there are very dedicated groups who dedicate time and energy into boycotting companies like nestle (which is _very_ difficult to boycott). May be a lot of laymen just don't think that their data is worth protecting (whether they are right or not remains to be seen).
- LMYahooTFY 7y ago
  Google users are not the only target of Google's data mining, so this is extremely disingenuous. I'm not even sure how to define a Google user. Furthermore the comment seemed in reference to the origins of fascist political ideology in Europe and their relation to what happened when data mining was weaponized against a population.
tjoff 7y ago
Tesla does too. And it is much harder to get around it without modifying your Tesla. Not sure how they can be GDPR compliant, maybe it's only in the US where all cars are tracked in real-time?
- ascorbic 7y ago
  After the most recent update I was asked whether I would give permission for video clips to be sent to Tesla to improve self-driving and sentry mode. It was optional. The GPS tracking is required if lots of features are to work, so permission isn't needed under GDRP unless it's also used for other purposes. There are details in their privacy policy: https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/about/legal https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/about/legal
  - tjoff 7y ago
    Thanks, that's sounds much better than what I've read before.

pilsetnieks 7y ago

Germans might be particularly sensitive about a Stasi-like surveillance apparatus.

pjc50 7y ago

I wasn't actually going to point to the surveillance question, and I didn't say that Google itself was fascist, but the parent poster seemed to think that antifa might have some opposition to google and did not offer their own reason.