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Good strategy from Treelon overall. You'll have Tesla producing cars and employing thousands of workers in the U.S, China & Germany so that no one would stifle
by propercoil 7y ago
Good strategy from Treelon overall. You'll have Tesla producing cars and employing thousands of workers in the U.S, China & Germany so that no one would stifle the company's path towards autonomous EV's.
This will produce pressure on Europe to ease for instance the AI regulations and basically removed Customs tax from many other countries because Tesla can send the cars from three different locations.
I just don't understand why Tesla is slow in expanding to other countries. Here in Israel we don't have Teslas and it's an extremely innovative place with very good conditions for an EV as Israel stretches 424 km (263 mi) from north to south. like two or three charging locations and you're done.
- xxpor 7y agoIsn't the issue in Israel that you must have a local importer and dealer?
- propercoil 7y agoNo, but worst case you simply register a local company that will act as an importer (like anywhere else). This company will declare profits of 0 every year as all revenues will be shipped to Tesla U.S. The issue is with Tesla, they still didn't make the move on us I guess. At least I have my Tesla shares though.
- coldfire 7y agoROI may be? the market size in Israel is not as big in other countries, so it makes sense to target bigger audience first. Also does Israel have any good local EV manufacturers that can give Tesla any competition?
- propercoil 7y agoNo competition for Tesla at all, only e-tron is selling here a bit and I think the model 3 and Y will crush it here. In terms of market size, well they have them in Jordan next to us which have the same population size and they don't have half the country working in the tech space as our GDP per capita is way higher.
- seniorivn 7y agoWell, you probably not very interested in politics, if you was, you would know the answer...
- TheSpiceIsLife 7y agoI’m mildly interested in politics and don’t know the answer.
- ascorbic 7y agoI have a degree in politics and don’t know the answer.
- petre 7y agoIf their neighbours really want a Tesla they'd have to get it from Israel.
- fennecfoxen 7y ago> the market size in Israel is not as big in other countries Why, comma, you say that as if building a car outside of Germany and selling it inside of Germany would face some sort of unfair obstacles, rather than being a straightforward and painless process as it ought.
- erikpukinskis 7y agoI think the main issues are shipping costs, supply chain, and skills base. So you’d have to argue for Israel on those three points. I don’t think the domestic market size is primary. They built a factory in Nevada.
- robotresearcher 7y agoNevada is in a pretty stable free trade deal with the other United States.
- ijidak 7y agoThat made me laugh
- IfOnlyYouKnew 7y ago> Inside of Germany That should be "Inside of Europe" because the barriers to selling cars in the EU are just about the same as selling Nevada cars in California. For US->Europe tariffs for cars are around 10% I believe.
- Jommi 7y agoNot true. There can be huge import taxes on cars depending on country, even inside EU.
- Symbiote 7y agoThere are no* import taxes on any goods moved within the EU. That's a fundamental principle of the thing. The fee to register a car for use on public road varies. It's very high in Denmark (120% of the value or something) but the place of manufacture doesn't affect that. Second hand imported cars still need to pay it. * Exception is the duty paid on alcohol and cigarettes, depending how you define it.
- elihu 7y agoMobileEye (which was acquired by Intel) does not make cars but is a competitor in autonomous driving technology. They're based in Israel.
- jsight 7y agoIt sounds likey they've been hiring in Israel. Maybe that will change soon.
- propercoil 7y agoThey just put up one hiring position which is exciting but nevertheless, it's been 11 years since Tesla's inception so we are not holding our breath. Ordered a Tesla hat though! haha
- Traster 7y agoHow are the temperatures in Israel? I could imagine the summers get too hot for Tesla to guarantee battery performance?
- propercoil 7y agoWay colder than in Nevada. And also they already have them in Jordan next to us so that's not the culprit.
- maxlamb 7y agoIsrael may be cooler than Las Vegas but definitely warmer than Reno, NV where the gigafactory is located. Reno gets 22 inches of snow per year.
- propercoil 7y agoOur north snows every year and it gets really cold in the winter (the center of the country Jerusalem snows every other year too). Also, Jordan next to us has Teslas and we have lower temperatures so it's not the climate.
- brianwawok 7y agohttps://weatherspark.com/compare/y/1548~98866/Comparison-of-the-Average-Weather-in-Reno-and-Jerusalem https://weatherspark.com/compare/y/1548~98866/Comparison-of-... Appears that Reno gets colder for several months and hotter for about 2 months
- Waterluvian 7y agoIf you don't mind, this always fascinates me. What does "really cold" mean to you?
- wolf550e 7y ago"really cold" is incorrect in a global context. The coldest place in Israel[1] gets to only just below freezing temperature in the winter. 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Hermon#Climate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Hermon#Climate
- jayalpha 7y agoI don't understand your post at all. "so that no one would stifle the company's path towards autonomous EV's." Who is "stifling"? And many companies work on autonomous cars. "This will produce pressure on Europe to ease for instance the AI regulations" What AI regulations in Europe? And what is Europe? The EU? "and basically removed Customs tax" This is not how custom taxes work. The EU is one of the biggest free trade zone in the world. If Mercosul joins, it is the biggest. "I just don't understand why Tesla is slow in expanding to other countries. Here in Israel we don't have Teslas and it's an extremely innovative place" Because Tesla is burning through cash like a motherfucker. And Israel is a tiny place. This is also why, to my knowledge, nobody build cars in Israel. I mean, why not Dubai?
- dmix 7y agoGermany and EU very obviously have a policy preference to any large auto-companies that both operate and sell there. It’s not going to be written down on paper but there’s plenty of evidence to support it through their history of actions. And Germany has the largest influence on the EU economy wise having the largest GDP by far. Completely dropping customs tax because a foreign company factory opened there is a bit much though.
- zamfi 7y ago> "and basically removed Customs tax" > This is not how custom taxes work. The EU is one of the biggest free trade zone in the world. If Mercosul joins, it is the biggest. Wait, isn't this is exactly how custom taxes work? Say the EU charges a 10% tax on all imported passenger cars (it does, and 25% on pickups and other trucks). Now, if Tesla sells cars to the EU that were made in the USA, wouldn't it trigger that import tax? Now, say Tesla builds a factory inside the EU and makes cars there (as it plans to do). When sold in the EU, those cars wouldn't be charged an import tax because they're not being imported. Right? What am I missing?
- propercoil 7y agoYou’re right on both. Just as an added plus Tesla will have better tariffs to other countries while taking advantage of each of its hosting jurisdiction’s bilateral deals, so the impact is larger.
- SEJeff 7y agoI will say that Tel Aviv and Haifa both have excellent engineers. As Tesla grows I'd be a bit surprised if they didn't have engineers in Israel. That said, most of the engineering is still based out of Silicon Valley, so that might be why? As a tesla fan and owner, I hope you get your superchargers. I've heard rumors that they've just started seriously producing the supercharger v3 hardware at the Buffalo, NY factory (Gigafactory 2), so maybe as that ramps up you'll be good. Consider tweeting @elonmusk and asking. I did that for slow parts delivery and had the issue resolved in two days.
- propercoil 7y agoHe got hammered by us but unfortunately nothing from him referencing Israel. I don’t blame him, no one can filter all these tweets.
- chiph 7y agoThey need some good engineers, sure. But what they really need is someone who can produce better welds.
- zaroth 7y agoFor Y they are just going to stamp the whole frame out in one fell swoop. > Another new innovation revealed in the patents is a “Multi-Directional Unibody Casting Machine for a Vehicle Frame and Associated Methods.” Musk himself let this cat out of the bag earlier on by revealing the new casting machine will be capable of casting almost the entire body of a Tesla EV in one piece. > This startling innovation will virtually eliminate the need for a tremendous number of welds across an EV body. They also reduced the total length of wiring from 1.5km to 100m in the Y.
- SEJeff 7y agoNah that’s SpaceX, not Tesla. The S and X use a lot of friction stir welding, which machines do anyways not humans.
- jowsie 7y ago
- woodandsteel 7y ago>I just don't understand why Tesla is slow in expanding to other countries Tesla is expanding as fast as they can. After huge struggles they finally got their Fremont plant working right. Then they immediately set to work building a plant in China, and got done remarkably fast. Now they are going to build a plant in Europe. Probably next will come India, and then maybe Latin America or the Middle East, and there I suppose Israel would be the best location.
- azernik 7y agoIsrael is not a good location for a Middle East factory. Most countries in the region will not trade with it, and even those that will, like Jordan and Egypt, do not have free trade or good transportation links with the country.
- woodandsteel 7y agoYou know, that's a good point. Maybe I'm wrong.
- propercoil 7y agono one said building Teslas in Israel... They don't sell here at all.
- azernik 7y agoGP did say that: > Now they are going to build a plant in Europe. Probably next will come India, and then maybe Latin America or the Middle East, and there I suppose Israel would be the best location.
- oska 7y ago> Here in Israel we don't have Teslas You might have missed this very recent news: > International car company Tesla published an ad seeking an operations manager in Israel, thus confirming that it plans to launch significant operations here. [1] [1] https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/business/tesla-to-launch-operations-in-israel-1.8102237 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/business/tesla-to-launch...
- Animats 7y agoIsrael is so small that you can go anywhere on one charge.
- alexis_fr 7y agoIt’s also a small market: 9 million inhabitants.
- altacc 7y agoTesla is a small scale producer, so their market sizes can be quite small (Norway's population is 5 million and a key market). What drives the market is desire, money and charging. It seems Israel has the first two but hasn't got a good charging infrastructure yet. Once it does, combined with increased incentives for electric cars, I imagine it'll be a good market for them.
- propercoil 7y agoWhat charging infrastructure? You would literally need two or three charging spots for the whole country.
- Animats 7y agoWell, not quite. Electric cars are a good fit for a warm climate (so you don't have to spend too much power on the heater), lots of sun, and no oil. Like Hawaii, which just passed 10,000 electric cars and has more solar power than the power company can absorb during the day.
- fyfy18 7y agoIsrael is probably just too small of a market at the moment. In most European countries there still isn't a official Tesla store or service center. I live in the Baltic's and a friend of a freind has a Model X which was involved in a minor accident (other drivers fault) last year. To get it repaired without affecting the warranty it had to be sent to Tesla, which meant it had to be taken to Finland (700km) or Germany (1000km).
- Reason077 7y ago> “Israel is probably just too small of a market” I’m not sure if size has much to do with it. Tesla is in remote countries like New Zealand (1/2 the population of Israel) and Iceland (about 1/20th the population of Israel), as well as neighbouring Jordan (similar size to Israel).
- avar 7y agoI don't know about New Zealand, but Iceland is part of the EU's single market when it comes to selling cars. I'd expect for a company like Tesla dealing with regulatory overhead in new markets might be the limiting factor. New Zealand is an English speaking country so perhaps it's easier for them, and to sell cars in Iceland you don't need to do anything more than ship cars you're selling in the EU over and pay import tolls & registration fees.
- Reason077 7y agoYes, but it's not quite as simple as registering cars and shipping them to customers. The cars need to be serviced, which means opening service centres in the destination market, and hiring skilled staff to do the servicing. Since Tesla doesn't sell through dealers, they also usually open a sales centre / Tesla store (which often also acts as a service centre). In Tesla's case, they also invest in building superchargers in the countries they operate in. All of this adds up to a fairly significant capital investment before they start selling vehicles in a new country.
- Melting_Harps 7y ago
- pbreit 7y agoSlow to expand to other countries? I would say they are operating at lightspeed! Think for a moment the colossal effort involved in expanding a car company around the world. And not just a car company, but a direct-to-customer model with a completely new fueling method.
- Tuna-Fish 7y ago> I just don't understand why Tesla is slow in expanding to other countries. They don't have the capacity. Last quarter, they made as many M3s they have the capacity to make, and sold all of them. Opening new markets just means underserving the current ones more. They will start operations in new countries as they increase capacity and start saturating sales in their current ones.
- navigatesol 7y ago>Last quarter, they made as many M3s they have the capacity to make, and sold all of them. We were told, repeatedly, that Tesla would be producing 10,000 Model 3s per week in 2019, with a single factory. Suddenly, now, they don't have the capacity at ~6,000 per week and need multiple factories on zero year-over-year growth?
- Ryudas 7y agoNow, please be precise with wording. 2019 hasn't ended, and the 10000 figure was given with the second gigafactory in mind.(which will start production in this year, actually)