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Excuse for what? I don’t even understand the rhetorical question.

by jtbayly 7y ago

toomuchtodo 7y ago
For not building a non-internal combustion vehicle.
- philwelch 7y ago
  There’s no sensible use case for one that isn’t more effectively satisfied with a plug-in hybrid?
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    Plug in hybrid is double the complexity (combustion and EV powertrains) when having a charging network negates the need for the combustion component.
    - gamblor956 7y ago
      Until a fire results in the power grid going down...
      - toomuchtodo 7y ago
        Gas pumps stop working too when utility power is out. Can charge your electric car at home from solar if you have it (and in California, solar is mandatory on new residential roofs of new construction starting in January of next year).
        dragontamer 7y ago
        > Gas pumps stop working too when utility power is out. And gas pumps can be powered by diesel generators. Especially because they happen to be built on top of giant-tanks of diesel. I mean, the Tesla Supercharger at Nuburgring was a diesel generator for this very reason. Diesel (and gasoline) takes up very little space or weight, while giving a significant amount of energy storage. So its ideal for storage, transport, and distribution. https://www.motor1.com/news/371593/tesla-diesel-generator-nurburgring-record/ https://www.motor1.com/news/371593/tesla-diesel-generator-nu...
        toomuchtodo 7y ago
        I haven't done the math, but natural gas might be able to serve the same purpose, is usually ran in parallel with electrical infrastructure, and can have its own distribution infrastructure powered by the same gas the system is pumping. Diesel is of course a fine solution for isolated locations that require energy for whatever reason when utility or renewables are down, if you have to transport it a great distance, or you absolutely need a store of energy on site because you're concerned that natural gas would be down at the same time utility mains were.
        gamblor956 7y ago
        This is false. Gas pumps utilize utility electric as their primary source of power, but are required by law (in CA at least) to have backup sources of power, like diesel, in the event that a natural disaster (like an earthquake) knocks out power lines. And solar charging only works if you live in suburbia or rural neighborhoods. If you live in a city, you're SOL.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
    - Dylan16807 7y ago
      Hybrid drivetrains can be simpler than ICE drivetrains. Having a charging network doesn't solve all the problems of going >50 miles from home.
- gamblor956 7y ago
  Toyota has been experimenting with and selling non ICE vehicles since before Tesla existed. They created the market for green cars. They were Tesla's first big contact back when Tesla was still unprotected l unproven. Without Toyota, Tesla wouldn't exist.

Excuse for what? I don’t even understand the rhetorical question.

toomuchtodo 7y ago

For not building a non-internal combustion vehicle.

philwelch 7y ago
There’s no sensible use case for one that isn’t more effectively satisfied with a plug-in hybrid?
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  Plug in hybrid is double the complexity (combustion and EV powertrains) when having a charging network negates the need for the combustion component.
  - gamblor956 7y ago
    Until a fire results in the power grid going down...
    - toomuchtodo 7y ago
      Gas pumps stop working too when utility power is out. Can charge your electric car at home from solar if you have it (and in California, solar is mandatory on new residential roofs of new construction starting in January of next year).
      - dragontamer 7y ago
        > Gas pumps stop working too when utility power is out. And gas pumps can be powered by diesel generators. Especially because they happen to be built on top of giant-tanks of diesel. I mean, the Tesla Supercharger at Nuburgring was a diesel generator for this very reason. Diesel (and gasoline) takes up very little space or weight, while giving a significant amount of energy storage. So its ideal for storage, transport, and distribution. https://www.motor1.com/news/371593/tesla-diesel-generator-nurburgring-record/ https://www.motor1.com/news/371593/tesla-diesel-generator-nu...
        toomuchtodo 7y ago
        I haven't done the math, but natural gas might be able to serve the same purpose, is usually ran in parallel with electrical infrastructure, and can have its own distribution infrastructure powered by the same gas the system is pumping. Diesel is of course a fine solution for isolated locations that require energy for whatever reason when utility or renewables are down, if you have to transport it a great distance, or you absolutely need a store of energy on site because you're concerned that natural gas would be down at the same time utility mains were.
      - gamblor956 7y ago
        This is false. Gas pumps utilize utility electric as their primary source of power, but are required by law (in CA at least) to have backup sources of power, like diesel, in the event that a natural disaster (like an earthquake) knocks out power lines. And solar charging only works if you live in suburbia or rural neighborhoods. If you live in a city, you're SOL.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
  - Dylan16807 7y ago
    Hybrid drivetrains can be simpler than ICE drivetrains. Having a charging network doesn't solve all the problems of going >50 miles from home.
gamblor956 7y ago
Toyota has been experimenting with and selling non ICE vehicles since before Tesla existed. They created the market for green cars. They were Tesla's first big contact back when Tesla was still unprotected l unproven. Without Toyota, Tesla wouldn't exist.