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> They may have to restructure their pricing and penalties, to avoid the perception of bias. They don't need to avoid the perception of bias because they're fr

> They may have to restructure their pricing and penalties, to avoid the perception of bias. They don't need to avoid the perception of bias because they're free to run their marketplace however they want. They have absolutely no obligation to look out for anybody's interest except for their own. But, FWIW, it totally makes sense for them to have different rules when the third party merchant fulfills orders. Amazon and merchants selling on their platform have different incentives. Amazon cares a lot about their customer experience and has an extremely long-term perspective on customer satisfaction. Many third party sellers are either 1) incompetent, or 2) actively malicious. As a result, Amazon has to structure incentives accordingly whenever they let a third party seller handle part of the customer interaction.

danaris 7y ago
> they're free to run their marketplace however they want. That's only true if they don't wield monopoly power. Personally, I think there's a very strong argument that they do. It would be interesting to see to what extent courts agree.
- hcurtiss 7y ago
  In my view, there has never been a more diverse and vibrant marketplace than online shopping. Amazon offers decent services, but whether it's shoes, or TVs, or food, there are many, many, very viable alternatives. It's very interesting to me that some folks are able to define "monopoly" in their head in a manner that captures Amazon.
  - papln 7y ago
    https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/13/amazons-share-of-the-us-e-commerce-market-is-now-49-or-5-of-all-retail-spend/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/13/amazons-share-of-the-us-e-... https://www.theinformation.com/articles/whats-amazons-share-of-retail-depends-who-you-ask https://www.theinformation.com/articles/whats-amazons-share-... login-wall alternative: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-13/emarketer-cuts-estimate-of-amazon-s-u-s-online-market-share https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-13/emarketer...
  - seph-reed 7y ago
    I think monopoly is a bit of a misnomer here. There's certain levels of market power at which you no longer need to cut corners to make a profit, and at that point the right thing to do is pay it forward. Start treating everyone better. Amazon obviously isn't doing this, and are instead taking a more parasitic route and I think monopoly or not, people are fucking tired of the whole "legally right but ethically wrong" thing.
- toasterlovin 7y ago
  In what world is Amazon a monopoly in retail? Walmart does almost double their sales.
  - danaris 7y ago
    It is possible to be a retailer, and a monopoly, without being a monopoly in retail. Indeed, most determinations of monopoly power use a much narrower definition of the field they hold that power in. For instance, Amazon holds a significant percentage of online book sales—and, in fact, of online retail sales in general; see one of the sibling comments for references.
    - toasterlovin 7y ago
      The context is selling physical goods, in general, on Amazon, not just books.
patient_zero 7y ago
I really enjoy the high level of comments here generally, unless there's an article that paints a tech company in a negative light. It's the one time I can always count on a large number of apologists showing up to defend them, and I think that bias is something everyone should look withing themselves and address. When you get as big as Amazon is, along with the cushy tax breaks and cozy relationship with government that go along with that size, your decisions and business practices need to come under closer scrutiny, the end. On a slightly different topic, the fact that the seller said he was held to binding arbitration made me very sad. I am super excited for these bullshit "binding" arbitration clauses to get shot down in court, they need to go.
- toasterlovin 7y ago
  Amazon is nowhere near a monopoly in retail. Walmart does almost double their sales.
  - jiveturkey 7y ago
    ? neither parent nor GP said they were.
    - toasterlovin 7y ago
      GP says, "When you get as big as Amazon is". The only scenario in which the size of a company has a bearing on which laws apply to them is if the business is a monopoly.
      - Xelynega 7y ago
        This is false. Amazon doesn't have the same rules as most companies, they have cities paying them bribes to put a headquarters in them.
        toasterlovin 7y ago
        Many large companies try to extract concessions from cities in this manner. Sports franchises are notorious for this, despite being much smaller than Amazon.
bryanrasmussen 7y ago
"They don't need to avoid the perception of bias because they're free to run their marketplace however they want." See there's two points this comment can be coming from, the first one is as a legal statement, like they don't need to do it because legally speaking there is no way that they could be forced to run their marketplace any way but the way they want, and it seems like that is what you mean - but the fact that governments exist means that nobody is really free to run their market in any way they want. There are always restrictions. And if someone were to think otherwise I would wonder what led them to think that. The second way is as a moral viewpoint, which is what your next sentence "They have absolutely no obligation to look out for anybody's interest except for their own." also implies (as obligations are often referred to in the context of morality, while in a legal context we requirements are more often referred to - at least in the vernacular). So which is it? Do you believe there is no way they can be legally bound as to how they run their marketplace, or is it just that you believe there is no moral obligation as to how they should run it (or ethical obligation, I actually prefer the word ethical in this case).
- toasterlovin 7y ago
  Both. Amazon is not a monopoly, therefore they aren't subject to any legal restrictions other than the same ones any retailer faces. And Amazon has no moral obligation to bend over backwards for third party sellers. Amazon created and nurtured the customer relationship. They should guard it fiercely. This lawsuit is the equivalent of a consumer goods brand bitching and moaning because a supermarket imposes conditions on them if they want to get valuable shelf real estate.
  - CPLX 7y ago
    This is a common misconception. Anti-competitive practices are generally outlawed, even for those that have not already acquired monopoly power. Trying to acquire a monopoly via these practices is also not allowed.
    - projektfu 7y ago
      An example in the article was Kodak. You couldn’t call them a monopoly in copiers. But they ran afoul of anticompetitive tying and lost their case.

danaris 7y ago

> they're free to run their marketplace however they want. That's only true if they don't wield monopoly power. Personally, I think there's a very strong argument that they do. It would be interesting to see to what extent courts agree.

hcurtiss 7y ago
In my view, there has never been a more diverse and vibrant marketplace than online shopping. Amazon offers decent services, but whether it's shoes, or TVs, or food, there are many, many, very viable alternatives. It's very interesting to me that some folks are able to define "monopoly" in their head in a manner that captures Amazon.
- papln 7y ago
  https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/13/amazons-share-of-the-us-e-commerce-market-is-now-49-or-5-of-all-retail-spend/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/13/amazons-share-of-the-us-e-... https://www.theinformation.com/articles/whats-amazons-share-of-retail-depends-who-you-ask https://www.theinformation.com/articles/whats-amazons-share-... login-wall alternative: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-13/emarketer-cuts-estimate-of-amazon-s-u-s-online-market-share https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-13/emarketer...
- seph-reed 7y ago
  I think monopoly is a bit of a misnomer here. There's certain levels of market power at which you no longer need to cut corners to make a profit, and at that point the right thing to do is pay it forward. Start treating everyone better. Amazon obviously isn't doing this, and are instead taking a more parasitic route and I think monopoly or not, people are fucking tired of the whole "legally right but ethically wrong" thing.
toasterlovin 7y ago
In what world is Amazon a monopoly in retail? Walmart does almost double their sales.
- danaris 7y ago
  It is possible to be a retailer, and a monopoly, without being a monopoly in retail. Indeed, most determinations of monopoly power use a much narrower definition of the field they hold that power in. For instance, Amazon holds a significant percentage of online book sales—and, in fact, of online retail sales in general; see one of the sibling comments for references.
  - toasterlovin 7y ago
    The context is selling physical goods, in general, on Amazon, not just books.

patient_zero 7y ago

I really enjoy the high level of comments here generally, unless there's an article that paints a tech company in a negative light. It's the one time I can always count on a large number of apologists showing up to defend them, and I think that bias is something everyone should look withing themselves and address. When you get as big as Amazon is, along with the cushy tax breaks and cozy relationship with government that go along with that size, your decisions and business practices need to come under closer scrutiny, the end. On a slightly different topic, the fact that the seller said he was held to binding arbitration made me very sad. I am super excited for these bullshit "binding" arbitration clauses to get shot down in court, they need to go.

toasterlovin 7y ago
Amazon is nowhere near a monopoly in retail. Walmart does almost double their sales.
- jiveturkey 7y ago
  ? neither parent nor GP said they were.
  - toasterlovin 7y ago
    GP says, "When you get as big as Amazon is". The only scenario in which the size of a company has a bearing on which laws apply to them is if the business is a monopoly.
    - Xelynega 7y ago
      This is false. Amazon doesn't have the same rules as most companies, they have cities paying them bribes to put a headquarters in them.
      - toasterlovin 7y ago
        Many large companies try to extract concessions from cities in this manner. Sports franchises are notorious for this, despite being much smaller than Amazon.

bryanrasmussen 7y ago

"They don't need to avoid the perception of bias because they're free to run their marketplace however they want." See there's two points this comment can be coming from, the first one is as a legal statement, like they don't need to do it because legally speaking there is no way that they could be forced to run their marketplace any way but the way they want, and it seems like that is what you mean - but the fact that governments exist means that nobody is really free to run their market in any way they want. There are always restrictions. And if someone were to think otherwise I would wonder what led them to think that. The second way is as a moral viewpoint, which is what your next sentence "They have absolutely no obligation to look out for anybody's interest except for their own." also implies (as obligations are often referred to in the context of morality, while in a legal context we requirements are more often referred to - at least in the vernacular). So which is it? Do you believe there is no way they can be legally bound as to how they run their marketplace, or is it just that you believe there is no moral obligation as to how they should run it (or ethical obligation, I actually prefer the word ethical in this case).

toasterlovin 7y ago
Both. Amazon is not a monopoly, therefore they aren't subject to any legal restrictions other than the same ones any retailer faces. And Amazon has no moral obligation to bend over backwards for third party sellers. Amazon created and nurtured the customer relationship. They should guard it fiercely. This lawsuit is the equivalent of a consumer goods brand bitching and moaning because a supermarket imposes conditions on them if they want to get valuable shelf real estate.
- CPLX 7y ago
  This is a common misconception. Anti-competitive practices are generally outlawed, even for those that have not already acquired monopoly power. Trying to acquire a monopoly via these practices is also not allowed.
  - projektfu 7y ago
    An example in the article was Kodak. You couldn’t call them a monopoly in copiers. But they ran afoul of anticompetitive tying and lost their case.