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I was expecting Paul Machle (CFO) to resign, at least they seem to be completely divorced from the values that GitLab was built upon. > I don’t understand. Th

I was expecting Paul Machle (CFO) to resign, at least they seem to be completely divorced from the values that GitLab was built upon. > I don’t understand. This should not be an opt in or an opt out. [Telemetry] is a condition of using our product. There is an acceptance of terms and the use of this data should be included in that. https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/merge_requests/14182#note_203849107 https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/merge_requests/14182#no...

Operyl 7y ago
Honestly, it's the end of an era for Gitlab it seems to me. The CFO's views are going to become the new norm, and I doubt there's much the CEO will do to course correct (since this latest issue seemed to involve him with a big client contract?). I expect another "we're sorry, we won't do it again!" as we've gotten the past few times, but I am trusting those less and less.
- dessant 7y ago
  The general direction of GitLab can also be steered by employees. They could organize, publish a statement, and refuse to check in for work on Monday. It all depends on how many GitLab employees believe strongly enough in these values, and how many are willing to take some risks and defend the company and its values.
  - AnonGitLabEmpl 7y ago
    I've thought about this a lot. We could, but we are all literally terrified for our jobs and of retaliation.
    - dessant 7y ago
      I completely understand, retaliation is a real possibility in such cases. This is why it's important to find a safe way to organize, and for a considerable number of employees to protest.
      - toomuchtodo 7y ago
        > This is why it's important to find a safe way to organize, and for a considerable number of employees to protest. Like a union? That could enforce a contract against management and protect its workers with a grievance process? And allow workers to strike against management practices without retaliatory fear? Note that your employer can't terminate you for attempting to unionize in the US. I could understand those with equity being fearful of championing this (and possibly losing their lottery ticket), but if you have no equity, you have nothing to lose.
        AnonGitLabEmpl 7y ago
        I've considered this as well. They can't fire you but they'll find a way. See what happened to some of the Kickstarter people for example.
        toomuchtodo 7y ago
        And that's worse than continuing to work in fear? Not judging, a decision everyone has to make for themselves. All jobs are temporary. Good luck, always be creating a paper trail that you can provide to an attorney or regulator, and CYA.
        stock_toaster 7y ago
        > And that's worse than continuing to work in fear? My guess is people are just biding their time until they can find other jobs and quit.
        marcinzm 7y ago
        >Note that your employer can't terminate you for attempting to unionize in the US. I could understand those with equity being fearful of championing this (and possibly losing their lottery ticket), but if you have no equity, you have nothing to lose. They have a job to lose. Which starts to matter when you have a family, kids and mortgage to support. Then there's health insurance and possibly having to switch all your doctors. More broadly, if you think your next job will be better then you should just leave. If you don't then you have something to lose.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - echelon 7y ago
      > we are all literally terrified for our jobs Life as an employee shouldn't be like that. I think GitLab is in a unique situation since a lot of y'all are remote and there aren't a lot of comparable positions available. We need more remote working opportunities, because when there are just a few, the companies that allow it are able to string along their employees.
      - ElKrist 7y ago
        It is not my experience: I work remotely and my company is treating me very well as it's hard to find people with my skill level in their region of the world.
      - AnonGitLabEmpl 7y ago
        Absolutely. I think this is one of the strongest things keeping people here. The golden handcuffs. Everything sucks, but our situation is unique. Many positions have lots of personal freedom such as flexible working hours. You can work from wherever, you can travel. That's hard to leave.
        notus 7y ago
        If you're not averse to working for startups there are a lot of opportunities out there. I actually got rejected by gitlab and then got an offer from a startup for more money than I would have gotten at gitlab. There's quite a few remote first places out there too like Duck Duck Go, Mattermost, Zapier, Auth0, Automattic, Stripe just added a remote division but not remote first, Invision, just off the top of my head. I get changing jobs is full of uncertainty but don't sell yourself short either, the market has changed quite a bit probably since you were last actively looking.
      - notus 7y ago
        There are A LOT of remote jobs. As someone who just went through a job hunt for remote positions, there was pretty much a constant supply of opportunities. However, most of them are startups. There is definitely a lack of established remote first companies with 200+ employees.
    - YorickPeterse 7y ago
      > We could, but we are all literally terrified for our jobs and of retaliation. This is the first time I'm hearing this, and the people I work with certainly don't feel like htis. I suggest not saying things like "we all", when that clearly is not true.
  - Kiro 7y ago
    For some reason a comment from an alleged Gitlab employee on your post has been nuked and is showing as "dead" (as well as their other comment in this thread). What's up with that? It's a new throwaway account but I don't see any reason for it to be shadowbanned.
  - ianleeclark 7y ago
    > The general direction of GitLab can also be steered by employees. They could organize, publish a statement, and refuse to check in for work on Monday. But then they'll have to deal with the whinging of Hackernews about needlessly bringing politics into work.
- Rapzid 7y ago
  Perhaps but I have my doubts about it being THAT specific CFOs views. I still believe somebody will be "moving on" due to how bad that whole thing was bungled.
matheusmoreira 7y ago
How hard is it to understand that people do not want to be tracked? How many times do we have to say it before they understand? Should we paraphrase it for them? Explain it like they're five?
- omani 7y ago
  let them (those companies) die in their own toxicity.
  - icebraining 7y ago
    I don't want to pick on you, but this is the second post in which you seem to imply the overall situation is better than what I see. "Let those companies die" seems to imply they're a minority, whereas from what I can tell, 99% of companies do just what that CFO is suggesting. How can we possibly expect the deaths of all of them?
    - omani 7y ago
      employees are not married to their company. when I talk about them I talk about those who are in control of the company. those who are left behind can look for another and better opportunity. which is better than continuing in a toxic environment anyway. glad we are in the IT business, where finding another job is pretty easy. this does probably not apply to other sectors.
      - icebraining 7y ago
        > those who are left behind can look for another and better opportunity. which is better than continuing in a toxic environment anyway. That's what I'm wondering: what you call a toxic environment seems rather common in my experience. The execs make the decisions, and the developers are lucky if they even get to know what was decided. So while they can certainly look, I find it weird to be confident that they will actually find somewhere better. Gitlab just seems to be reverting to the average.
jahlove 7y ago
Paul Machle. Paul Machle should resign from Gitlab.
kevin_b_er 7y ago
Yes, I'd say the C suite position represents a fundamental flaw in the culture from the top down. The C suite is a detriment. I also expect them to close up their internal discussions soon.
raverbashing 7y ago
Unfortunately the most blinding assertive people are usually the ones that never admit to their mistakes.

Operyl 7y ago

Honestly, it's the end of an era for Gitlab it seems to me. The CFO's views are going to become the new norm, and I doubt there's much the CEO will do to course correct (since this latest issue seemed to involve him with a big client contract?). I expect another "we're sorry, we won't do it again!" as we've gotten the past few times, but I am trusting those less and less.

dessant 7y ago
The general direction of GitLab can also be steered by employees. They could organize, publish a statement, and refuse to check in for work on Monday. It all depends on how many GitLab employees believe strongly enough in these values, and how many are willing to take some risks and defend the company and its values.
- AnonGitLabEmpl 7y ago
  I've thought about this a lot. We could, but we are all literally terrified for our jobs and of retaliation.
  - dessant 7y ago
    I completely understand, retaliation is a real possibility in such cases. This is why it's important to find a safe way to organize, and for a considerable number of employees to protest.
    - toomuchtodo 7y ago
      > This is why it's important to find a safe way to organize, and for a considerable number of employees to protest. Like a union? That could enforce a contract against management and protect its workers with a grievance process? And allow workers to strike against management practices without retaliatory fear? Note that your employer can't terminate you for attempting to unionize in the US. I could understand those with equity being fearful of championing this (and possibly losing their lottery ticket), but if you have no equity, you have nothing to lose.
      - AnonGitLabEmpl 7y ago
        I've considered this as well. They can't fire you but they'll find a way. See what happened to some of the Kickstarter people for example.
        toomuchtodo 7y ago
        And that's worse than continuing to work in fear? Not judging, a decision everyone has to make for themselves. All jobs are temporary. Good luck, always be creating a paper trail that you can provide to an attorney or regulator, and CYA.
        stock_toaster 7y ago
        > And that's worse than continuing to work in fear? My guess is people are just biding their time until they can find other jobs and quit.
      - marcinzm 7y ago
        >Note that your employer can't terminate you for attempting to unionize in the US. I could understand those with equity being fearful of championing this (and possibly losing their lottery ticket), but if you have no equity, you have nothing to lose. They have a job to lose. Which starts to matter when you have a family, kids and mortgage to support. Then there's health insurance and possibly having to switch all your doctors. More broadly, if you think your next job will be better then you should just leave. If you don't then you have something to lose.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - echelon 7y ago
    > we are all literally terrified for our jobs Life as an employee shouldn't be like that. I think GitLab is in a unique situation since a lot of y'all are remote and there aren't a lot of comparable positions available. We need more remote working opportunities, because when there are just a few, the companies that allow it are able to string along their employees.
    - ElKrist 7y ago
      It is not my experience: I work remotely and my company is treating me very well as it's hard to find people with my skill level in their region of the world.
    - AnonGitLabEmpl 7y ago
      Absolutely. I think this is one of the strongest things keeping people here. The golden handcuffs. Everything sucks, but our situation is unique. Many positions have lots of personal freedom such as flexible working hours. You can work from wherever, you can travel. That's hard to leave.
      - notus 7y ago
        If you're not averse to working for startups there are a lot of opportunities out there. I actually got rejected by gitlab and then got an offer from a startup for more money than I would have gotten at gitlab. There's quite a few remote first places out there too like Duck Duck Go, Mattermost, Zapier, Auth0, Automattic, Stripe just added a remote division but not remote first, Invision, just off the top of my head. I get changing jobs is full of uncertainty but don't sell yourself short either, the market has changed quite a bit probably since you were last actively looking.
    - notus 7y ago
      There are A LOT of remote jobs. As someone who just went through a job hunt for remote positions, there was pretty much a constant supply of opportunities. However, most of them are startups. There is definitely a lack of established remote first companies with 200+ employees.
  - YorickPeterse 7y ago
    > We could, but we are all literally terrified for our jobs and of retaliation. This is the first time I'm hearing this, and the people I work with certainly don't feel like htis. I suggest not saying things like "we all", when that clearly is not true.
- Kiro 7y ago
  For some reason a comment from an alleged Gitlab employee on your post has been nuked and is showing as "dead" (as well as their other comment in this thread). What's up with that? It's a new throwaway account but I don't see any reason for it to be shadowbanned.
- ianleeclark 7y ago
  > The general direction of GitLab can also be steered by employees. They could organize, publish a statement, and refuse to check in for work on Monday. But then they'll have to deal with the whinging of Hackernews about needlessly bringing politics into work.
Rapzid 7y ago
Perhaps but I have my doubts about it being THAT specific CFOs views. I still believe somebody will be "moving on" due to how bad that whole thing was bungled.

matheusmoreira 7y ago

How hard is it to understand that people do not want to be tracked? How many times do we have to say it before they understand? Should we paraphrase it for them? Explain it like they're five?

omani 7y ago
let them (those companies) die in their own toxicity.
- icebraining 7y ago
  I don't want to pick on you, but this is the second post in which you seem to imply the overall situation is better than what I see. "Let those companies die" seems to imply they're a minority, whereas from what I can tell, 99% of companies do just what that CFO is suggesting. How can we possibly expect the deaths of all of them?
  - omani 7y ago
    employees are not married to their company. when I talk about them I talk about those who are in control of the company. those who are left behind can look for another and better opportunity. which is better than continuing in a toxic environment anyway. glad we are in the IT business, where finding another job is pretty easy. this does probably not apply to other sectors.
    - icebraining 7y ago
      > those who are left behind can look for another and better opportunity. which is better than continuing in a toxic environment anyway. That's what I'm wondering: what you call a toxic environment seems rather common in my experience. The execs make the decisions, and the developers are lucky if they even get to know what was decided. So while they can certainly look, I find it weird to be confident that they will actually find somewhere better. Gitlab just seems to be reverting to the average.

jahlove 7y ago

Paul Machle. Paul Machle should resign from Gitlab.

kevin_b_er 7y ago

Yes, I'd say the C suite position represents a fundamental flaw in the culture from the top down. The C suite is a detriment. I also expect them to close up their internal discussions soon.

raverbashing 7y ago

Unfortunately the most blinding assertive people are usually the ones that never admit to their mistakes.