4 ms·

Well, it IS a 737, that is part of the problem. The 737 has a feature almost no other new plane have: you can order it with a internal staircase so people can

Well, it IS a 737, that is part of the problem. The 737 has a feature almost no other new plane have: you can order it with a internal staircase so people can leave the plane without a specialized airport terminal. This feature requires the plane to keep its current overall shape, otherwise the staircase thingy would not work. So to keep this feature, while putting a bigger engine on the plane, they had to move the engine forward, and change its shape too, otherwise the engine wouldn't fit between the wing and the ground. Then THAT caused the necessity of MCAS. So long story short: wanting to keep backward compatiblity with the 737 staircase, led to the engine hack, that then to maintain backward compatiblity with the handling led to the MCAS hack... So, it IS a 737, in the sense they kept the staircase and to do that ended needing the MCAS... The other option would have been abandon the staircase entirely and make a taller plane, this would allow a bigger engine with no handling changes, but although this would remain a 737 from handling perspective, it would not be a 737 from the airports perspective: it would need to remodel the airports to install bridges or purchase of ladder trucks.

alistairSH 7y ago
TIL: The airstairs are still an option of most (all?) 737 variants. RyanAir appears to have them on part of the fleet. And many BBJ have them, as not all general aviation terminals have jetways. I assumed the stairs were not longer installed, and the height of the 737 was just an anachronism. Video for those that haven't seen them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unZeusTrDX4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unZeusTrDX4
dhimes 7y ago
It was more than a staircase issue- they were trying to avoid time-consuming and costly pilot-retraining.
petschge 7y ago
Just skipping the staircase it not enough. To make the plane taller it needs a new landing gear. But that doesn't fit into the existing gear wells. So now you need to redesign the gear wells. But the gear nearly touch in the middle already. So you neet to make them taller, and attach them to the wing further out. Which the Wing can' take. So you need to redesign the wing. At this point you better just admit that the 737 design from 1964 is at the end of its life.
CaptainZapp 7y ago
The other option would have been abandon the staircase entirely and make a taller plane, this would allow a bigger engine with no handling changes, but although this would remain a 737 from handling perspective, it would not be a 737 from the airports perspective: it would need to remodel the airports to install bridges or purchase of ladder trucks. No that would not be the major problem. Specifically since practically any airport nowadays has the infrastructure to service such a plane. This was quite different 50 years ago. The reason why they couldn't have heightened it was that a new type certification would have been required and Boeing wanted to avoid exactly that at all cost. Even at the cost of 346 dead people.
WooShoa 7y ago
The Homer car comes to mind whenever these kinds of convoluted and unchecked engineering adventures have the light shone on them.
nradov 7y ago
The 737 MAX 10 has taller (extending) landing gear. Not sure if the airstairs will still be an option. https://www.boeing.com/features/2018/08/737max10-landing-gear-08-18.page https://www.boeing.com/features/2018/08/737max10-landing-gea...
- burfog 7y ago
  That landing gear only extends when the nose gear is off the ground. It's really just to prevent a tail strike. An alternate choice would be a little extra wheel up on the tail, as was done with the Concorde.

alistairSH 7y ago

TIL: The airstairs are still an option of most (all?) 737 variants. RyanAir appears to have them on part of the fleet. And many BBJ have them, as not all general aviation terminals have jetways. I assumed the stairs were not longer installed, and the height of the 737 was just an anachronism. Video for those that haven't seen them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unZeusTrDX4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unZeusTrDX4

dhimes 7y ago

It was more than a staircase issue- they were trying to avoid time-consuming and costly pilot-retraining.

petschge 7y ago

Just skipping the staircase it not enough. To make the plane taller it needs a new landing gear. But that doesn't fit into the existing gear wells. So now you need to redesign the gear wells. But the gear nearly touch in the middle already. So you neet to make them taller, and attach them to the wing further out. Which the Wing can' take. So you need to redesign the wing. At this point you better just admit that the 737 design from 1964 is at the end of its life.

CaptainZapp 7y ago

The other option would have been abandon the staircase entirely and make a taller plane, this would allow a bigger engine with no handling changes, but although this would remain a 737 from handling perspective, it would not be a 737 from the airports perspective: it would need to remodel the airports to install bridges or purchase of ladder trucks. No that would not be the major problem. Specifically since practically any airport nowadays has the infrastructure to service such a plane. This was quite different 50 years ago. The reason why they couldn't have heightened it was that a new type certification would have been required and Boeing wanted to avoid exactly that at all cost. Even at the cost of 346 dead people.

WooShoa 7y ago

The Homer car comes to mind whenever these kinds of convoluted and unchecked engineering adventures have the light shone on them.

nradov 7y ago

The 737 MAX 10 has taller (extending) landing gear. Not sure if the airstairs will still be an option. https://www.boeing.com/features/2018/08/737max10-landing-gear-08-18.page https://www.boeing.com/features/2018/08/737max10-landing-gea...

burfog 7y ago
That landing gear only extends when the nose gear is off the ground. It's really just to prevent a tail strike. An alternate choice would be a little extra wheel up on the tail, as was done with the Concorde.