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The simple truth is that any (non-crackpot) regimented training program will significantly improve a geek's fitness. Learning the minute details of weight train

The simple truth is that any (non-crackpot) regimented training program will significantly improve a geek's fitness. Learning the minute details of weight training, nutrition, and other (important!) subjects is for marginal gains on top of a base level of fitness which the majority of the population lacks. Learn enough to safely accomplish basic exercises without ego-shattering self-consciousness, do them routinely and with an increasing level of difficulty, and you will become more fit. Great research on procrastination suggests that too many choices for what to do will lead you to not do anything. If you are not already at a base level of "good shape", whether you lift in one program or another, jog, play sports, or walk the stairs at work, you are NOT going to choose "wrong". Guaranteed or your money back. (Please note that I say this as a diehard HST-devotee who cross trains for soccer and MMA. But none of that stuff mattered when I was gassed after 30 minutes of light exercise.)

cynicalkane 16y ago
With weight training, for example, not worrying about the details and just doing it might lead to serious injury. You need to do these exercises with proper form. And if you're an out of shape computer geek, you will almost certainly need to fix your posterior chain and upper back before you are ready to do deadlift, squat, bench, and shoulder press safely.
- scott_s 16y ago
  You can squat, deadlift, bench and shoulder press on your first day. Here is a simple, two step process to start squatting: 1. Stand up. 2. Squat. Oh, there's a lot more to it. And some people actually find air squats harder than weighted squats because there's no counter-balance. But the basic powerlifter movements - squat, deadlift, bench - can be done by people on their first day as long as they use very little weight. In fact, I think it's best to start with those movements to build strength. Having someone to correct your form is good, of course, but not everyone has that luxury and may have to monitor themselves. That's doable as well.
  - saturdaysaint 16y ago
    The idea that proper form is self evident or intuitively learned is naive, especially in regard to people whose daily responsibilities don't demand much coordination. If you want to look good for a few years, then yes, you can develop muscle by just going through the motions, but you run a very big risk of systemic injury. I highly recommend anyone looking to get in shape start with a few sessions with a personal trainer who can give feedback on form.
    - scott_s 16y ago
      It's not intuitive nor self evident. But a motivated beginner can learn on their own - I did. I read a lot, watched videos, and paid close attention to my own form. I would have done better with an instructor, but that was not an option. Most "personal trainers" I saw knew nothing about basic, free weight lifts. What I'm trying to dispel is the notion that you shouldn't touch free weights or that free weights are for experienced people only. Use very low weight in the beginning, but no one should start out on machines, nor should they be scared of starting.
      - vimalg2 16y ago
        Most "personal trainers" I saw knew nothing about basic, free weight lifts. This is spot-on where I live. (Kerala, India) The trainers have no experience with proper form coaching for the basic powerlifting exercises. All the gyms here promote themselves as 'Bodybuilding gyms'. All the members want to look like the muscle-bound moviestars from 'Bollywood' (presumably to get 'ze girls' :p) I'm maybe 1 of 3 people in the whole gym clientele(all male) that even uses the Squat Rack. I'm on Stronglifts 5x5 for a month now and my lifts are definitely improving and so is my flexibility and core 'balance'. Surprising side-effect: I don't feel 'clumsy' anymore. And yeah, I get into long winded arguments with the 'trainers' twice a month, about why i don't use the cable machines for 'ze body'. As an engineer at heart, I like to explain the idea to them something like: "You can pimp your cheap-ass car with all the bling you want, but when it counts, the German engine is going to make the difference. Besides, there's no harm in adding bling after you've got your own finely-tuned German engine under the hood" Yes, its corny, but it got the message across and got the 'trainers' off my back.
- ebiester 16y ago
  Deadlifts, squats, and shoulder presses, done right, will fix your posterior chain and upper back. The trick is avoiding the ego-lift and only do as much as is safe and with proper form. The bigger trick is having someone to show and critique your form. (Gah, I miss lifting!)
  - sedachv 16y ago
    Two things that weight training doesn't address is inward shoulder rotation/slumping and "turtle neck," something all people working at a keyboard are prone to. You really have to pay attention and make sure you pull your shoulders back, and keep your head and neck in alignment with the spine by pulling your head back and up (you might need to tilt it down, too). Bench pressing can make the inward shoulders significantly worse by tightening the pectorals. I had a pretty bad problem and didn't realize it until I went to a posture specialist. Now I'm really aware of it - a lot of gym rats seem to have it. Apparently squats and deadlifts will give you pretty extreme imbalances in the hip muscles (that's what the posture specialist and a deep-tissue masseur told me after working on me). You can fix that by stretching. I don't know if it matters, because it doesn't seem to affect me functionally or aesthetically.
    - eru 16y ago
      > Two things that weight training doesn't address is inward shoulder rotation/slumping and "turtle neck," something all people working at a keyboard are prone to. You really have to pay attention and make sure you pull your shoulders back, and keep your head and neck in alignment with the spine by pulling your head back and up (you might need to tilt it down, too). I'll watch out, thanks! Though I feel that with power cleans, pull-ups/chin-ups, and a standing desk at work, those problems might not hit me as hard. > Bench pressing can make the inward shoulders significantly worse by tightening the pectorals. I had a pretty bad problem and didn't realize it until I went to a posture specialist. Now I'm really aware of it - a lot of gym rats seem to have it. At least alternate your bench presses with overhead presses. And do something for your shoulders. > Apparently squats and deadlifts will give you pretty extreme imbalances in the hip muscles (that's what the posture specialist and a deep-tissue masseur told me after working on me). You can fix that by stretching. I don't know if it matters, because it doesn't seem to affect me functionally or aesthetically. Is this true for below parallel squats, too? And what kind of stretching?
- calaniz 16y ago
  Start with little or no weight. I started my squat with the bar and 2x25 pound weights. I've reached 4x45 pound weights + the bar after about a year. I took it slow and steady because I did not want to injure myself. I actually had someone compliment my squat form the other day! Thats a great feeling knowing where you started. Like anything, you just need to devote effort to getting better.
  - eru 16y ago
    Similar for me. I started with just the bar (20kg) in April, and am now at 120kg (i.e. bar plus two 45 pound weights and one 12.5 pound weight on each side). Just make sure you log everything, and keep pushing yourself, but with good form. Squat to (slightly below) parallel.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- frossie 16y ago
  If you are a beginner and gym unfriendly, I have found that strength training sites oriented towards women spend a lot more time talking about proper form (because they know many women won't just turn up to a gym - they want to train in private to start with). Eg: http://www.stumptuous.com/worship-at-the-altar-of-the-goddess-of-form http://www.stumptuous.com/worship-at-the-altar-of-the-goddes...
- eru 16y ago
  I agree on the proper form. But free weight are on of the best ways to fix your posterior chain and upper back. Pull-ups, press-ups, running and jumping also work wonders for beginners, and it's even harder to get those dangerously wrong. (That is, as long as you don't wear shoes while running. Shoes will make good running form much harder.) Just start slowly, log everything, and build your way up. Don't waste your time, and your form on the gym-machines.
matwood 16y ago
Learning the minute details of weight training, nutrition, and other (important!) subjects is for marginal gains on top of a base level of fitness which the majority of the population lacks. This point cannot be stressed enough! I've been strength training for years and have seen way to many people over think what needs to be done. Friends who just start working out come to me with questions like 'what if I miss a rep on my workout' or 'should I use avocado oil instead of olive oil'? Huh? It's not that complicated. In fact it's quite simple. Learn enough to do the basic exercises safely and then...GO DO THEM! When you can do them with a certain weight, add more weight. Repeat. As an aside, a close second to the first point is to log everything. It's hard to improve if you're not measuring. The problem is the same one that comes up with diets. People are looking for an easier solution when there simply isn't one. The person who gets to the gym and busts their ass a few times/week will be way ahead than the guy stuck sitting on his computer researching the best way to do finger curls[1]. [1] And another pet peeve. Skinny guys doing 20 sets of curls. Please go buy a book like mentioned above and just follow a workout from it. If you're doing enough pulling like you should, curls can usually be skipped all together.
- scott_s 16y ago
  I highly endorse the above. Most people fall into the same trap as careless developers trying to optimize a program: they focus on what is easy, instead of what will make the largest difference.
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  I would only modify one your post in one way: < As an aside, a close second to the first point is to log everything. > As an aside, a close second to the first point is to LOG EVERYTHING. As a minor addition, after you have engaged in the "GO DO THEM" and the "LOG EVERYTHING" part for a while, you'll notice when you reach a plateau. This is the time when asking for help/interneting/optimizing is helpful. Usually I'm not eating enough, your mistakes may vary. One more tip: most of the big guys at the gym are friendly. If one of them asks to work in, let him, and ask him to watch your form during your sets.
  - 16y ago
higglyndra 16y ago
>The simple truth is that any (non-crackpot) regimented training program will significantly improve a geek's fitness. Taking a daily walk outside is a good start. By doing so you shift your attention into a different environment and into moving the body. This somehow recharges the mental batteries, which in turn improves one's physical health. One tweak can significantly increase the benefit at little extra cost. During the walk, take one short sprint (long enough to lose your breath slightly; it'll probably take less than a minute). I can't explain why this helps but it does seem to help me. Something to do with keeping aerobic capacity in trim?
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
macco 16y ago
Totally agree. People look always for the blue pill. Highly detailed training and nutrition plans are for advanced athletes.
timwiseman 16y ago
I cannot second this enough. When I was just starting exercising I was overthinking things and it was a waste of time. The important thing at the beginning was just to start doing something. Once I started hitting plateaus then I started reading again and tweaking my routine to help get past them, but that was after several months working hard to develop a solid base. Now, after being in grad school for a couple of years while working full time and raising kids, I lost a lot and I need to start working on my baseline again, but that is another story.
grammaton 16y ago
"Fitness" is kind of a vague term. What are your exact goals in regards to "fitness?" Are you training for endurance? Strength? Explosive power? Or are you training for a specific sport? The "minute details" are anything but if you've got a specific goal in mind other than just "fitness."

cynicalkane 16y ago

With weight training, for example, not worrying about the details and just doing it might lead to serious injury. You need to do these exercises with proper form. And if you're an out of shape computer geek, you will almost certainly need to fix your posterior chain and upper back before you are ready to do deadlift, squat, bench, and shoulder press safely.

scott_s 16y ago
You can squat, deadlift, bench and shoulder press on your first day. Here is a simple, two step process to start squatting: 1. Stand up. 2. Squat. Oh, there's a lot more to it. And some people actually find air squats harder than weighted squats because there's no counter-balance. But the basic powerlifter movements - squat, deadlift, bench - can be done by people on their first day as long as they use very little weight. In fact, I think it's best to start with those movements to build strength. Having someone to correct your form is good, of course, but not everyone has that luxury and may have to monitor themselves. That's doable as well.
- saturdaysaint 16y ago
  The idea that proper form is self evident or intuitively learned is naive, especially in regard to people whose daily responsibilities don't demand much coordination. If you want to look good for a few years, then yes, you can develop muscle by just going through the motions, but you run a very big risk of systemic injury. I highly recommend anyone looking to get in shape start with a few sessions with a personal trainer who can give feedback on form.
  - scott_s 16y ago
    It's not intuitive nor self evident. But a motivated beginner can learn on their own - I did. I read a lot, watched videos, and paid close attention to my own form. I would have done better with an instructor, but that was not an option. Most "personal trainers" I saw knew nothing about basic, free weight lifts. What I'm trying to dispel is the notion that you shouldn't touch free weights or that free weights are for experienced people only. Use very low weight in the beginning, but no one should start out on machines, nor should they be scared of starting.
    - vimalg2 16y ago
      Most "personal trainers" I saw knew nothing about basic, free weight lifts. This is spot-on where I live. (Kerala, India) The trainers have no experience with proper form coaching for the basic powerlifting exercises. All the gyms here promote themselves as 'Bodybuilding gyms'. All the members want to look like the muscle-bound moviestars from 'Bollywood' (presumably to get 'ze girls' :p) I'm maybe 1 of 3 people in the whole gym clientele(all male) that even uses the Squat Rack. I'm on Stronglifts 5x5 for a month now and my lifts are definitely improving and so is my flexibility and core 'balance'. Surprising side-effect: I don't feel 'clumsy' anymore. And yeah, I get into long winded arguments with the 'trainers' twice a month, about why i don't use the cable machines for 'ze body'. As an engineer at heart, I like to explain the idea to them something like: "You can pimp your cheap-ass car with all the bling you want, but when it counts, the German engine is going to make the difference. Besides, there's no harm in adding bling after you've got your own finely-tuned German engine under the hood" Yes, its corny, but it got the message across and got the 'trainers' off my back.
ebiester 16y ago
Deadlifts, squats, and shoulder presses, done right, will fix your posterior chain and upper back. The trick is avoiding the ego-lift and only do as much as is safe and with proper form. The bigger trick is having someone to show and critique your form. (Gah, I miss lifting!)
- sedachv 16y ago
  Two things that weight training doesn't address is inward shoulder rotation/slumping and "turtle neck," something all people working at a keyboard are prone to. You really have to pay attention and make sure you pull your shoulders back, and keep your head and neck in alignment with the spine by pulling your head back and up (you might need to tilt it down, too). Bench pressing can make the inward shoulders significantly worse by tightening the pectorals. I had a pretty bad problem and didn't realize it until I went to a posture specialist. Now I'm really aware of it - a lot of gym rats seem to have it. Apparently squats and deadlifts will give you pretty extreme imbalances in the hip muscles (that's what the posture specialist and a deep-tissue masseur told me after working on me). You can fix that by stretching. I don't know if it matters, because it doesn't seem to affect me functionally or aesthetically.
  - eru 16y ago
    > Two things that weight training doesn't address is inward shoulder rotation/slumping and "turtle neck," something all people working at a keyboard are prone to. You really have to pay attention and make sure you pull your shoulders back, and keep your head and neck in alignment with the spine by pulling your head back and up (you might need to tilt it down, too). I'll watch out, thanks! Though I feel that with power cleans, pull-ups/chin-ups, and a standing desk at work, those problems might not hit me as hard. > Bench pressing can make the inward shoulders significantly worse by tightening the pectorals. I had a pretty bad problem and didn't realize it until I went to a posture specialist. Now I'm really aware of it - a lot of gym rats seem to have it. At least alternate your bench presses with overhead presses. And do something for your shoulders. > Apparently squats and deadlifts will give you pretty extreme imbalances in the hip muscles (that's what the posture specialist and a deep-tissue masseur told me after working on me). You can fix that by stretching. I don't know if it matters, because it doesn't seem to affect me functionally or aesthetically. Is this true for below parallel squats, too? And what kind of stretching?
calaniz 16y ago
Start with little or no weight. I started my squat with the bar and 2x25 pound weights. I've reached 4x45 pound weights + the bar after about a year. I took it slow and steady because I did not want to injure myself. I actually had someone compliment my squat form the other day! Thats a great feeling knowing where you started. Like anything, you just need to devote effort to getting better.
- eru 16y ago
  Similar for me. I started with just the bar (20kg) in April, and am now at 120kg (i.e. bar plus two 45 pound weights and one 12.5 pound weight on each side). Just make sure you log everything, and keep pushing yourself, but with good form. Squat to (slightly below) parallel.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
frossie 16y ago
If you are a beginner and gym unfriendly, I have found that strength training sites oriented towards women spend a lot more time talking about proper form (because they know many women won't just turn up to a gym - they want to train in private to start with). Eg: http://www.stumptuous.com/worship-at-the-altar-of-the-goddess-of-form http://www.stumptuous.com/worship-at-the-altar-of-the-goddes...
eru 16y ago
I agree on the proper form. But free weight are on of the best ways to fix your posterior chain and upper back. Pull-ups, press-ups, running and jumping also work wonders for beginners, and it's even harder to get those dangerously wrong. (That is, as long as you don't wear shoes while running. Shoes will make good running form much harder.) Just start slowly, log everything, and build your way up. Don't waste your time, and your form on the gym-machines.

matwood 16y ago

Learning the minute details of weight training, nutrition, and other (important!) subjects is for marginal gains on top of a base level of fitness which the majority of the population lacks. This point cannot be stressed enough! I've been strength training for years and have seen way to many people over think what needs to be done. Friends who just start working out come to me with questions like 'what if I miss a rep on my workout' or 'should I use avocado oil instead of olive oil'? Huh? It's not that complicated. In fact it's quite simple. Learn enough to do the basic exercises safely and then...GO DO THEM! When you can do them with a certain weight, add more weight. Repeat. As an aside, a close second to the first point is to log everything. It's hard to improve if you're not measuring. The problem is the same one that comes up with diets. People are looking for an easier solution when there simply isn't one. The person who gets to the gym and busts their ass a few times/week will be way ahead than the guy stuck sitting on his computer researching the best way to do finger curls[1]. [1] And another pet peeve. Skinny guys doing 20 sets of curls. Please go buy a book like mentioned above and just follow a workout from it. If you're doing enough pulling like you should, curls can usually be skipped all together.

scott_s 16y ago
I highly endorse the above. Most people fall into the same trap as careless developers trying to optimize a program: they focus on what is easy, instead of what will make the largest difference.
yummyfajitas 16y ago
I would only modify one your post in one way: < As an aside, a close second to the first point is to log everything. > As an aside, a close second to the first point is to LOG EVERYTHING. As a minor addition, after you have engaged in the "GO DO THEM" and the "LOG EVERYTHING" part for a while, you'll notice when you reach a plateau. This is the time when asking for help/interneting/optimizing is helpful. Usually I'm not eating enough, your mistakes may vary. One more tip: most of the big guys at the gym are friendly. If one of them asks to work in, let him, and ask him to watch your form during your sets.
- 16y ago

higglyndra 16y ago

>The simple truth is that any (non-crackpot) regimented training program will significantly improve a geek's fitness. Taking a daily walk outside is a good start. By doing so you shift your attention into a different environment and into moving the body. This somehow recharges the mental batteries, which in turn improves one's physical health. One tweak can significantly increase the benefit at little extra cost. During the walk, take one short sprint (long enough to lose your breath slightly; it'll probably take less than a minute). I can't explain why this helps but it does seem to help me. Something to do with keeping aerobic capacity in trim?

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

macco 16y ago

Totally agree. People look always for the blue pill. Highly detailed training and nutrition plans are for advanced athletes.

timwiseman 16y ago

I cannot second this enough. When I was just starting exercising I was overthinking things and it was a waste of time. The important thing at the beginning was just to start doing something. Once I started hitting plateaus then I started reading again and tweaking my routine to help get past them, but that was after several months working hard to develop a solid base. Now, after being in grad school for a couple of years while working full time and raising kids, I lost a lot and I need to start working on my baseline again, but that is another story.

grammaton 16y ago

"Fitness" is kind of a vague term. What are your exact goals in regards to "fitness?" Are you training for endurance? Strength? Explosive power? Or are you training for a specific sport? The "minute details" are anything but if you've got a specific goal in mind other than just "fitness."