11 ms·

Dopamine Fasting

190 points by sajid 7y ago

vixen99 7y ago
Paywall
- dang 7y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21480099 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21480099
neonate 7y ago
http://archive.is/uvfnI http://archive.is/uvfnI
- russellbeattie 7y ago
  Just go into your browser's settings (most likely Chrome), and turn off both cookies and JavaScript in Site Settings for just www.nytimes.com. Poof, no more paywall.
- dvfjsdhgfv 7y ago
  I love the fact that uBlock Origin has a little switch for JS in the bottom-left corner. Works like a charm for most websites like these and make your overall experience much more agreable.
songzme 7y ago
The struggles of first world problems...
- Fnoord 7y ago
  It came across to me as a light version of Buddhist (Vipassanā) meditation.
  - psv1 7y ago
    Yes, I Ctrl-F-ed "Vipassana" when I read the description but it was used in a very different context.
    - Fnoord 7y ago
      From another post in this thread I found [1], written by the person who coined the term (Dr. Cameron Sepah, Executive Psychologist & Venture Capitalist, Assistant Clinical Professor, UCSF School of Medicine), and who sees it being hijacked in media. > [...] Dopamine Fasting is based on Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy (CBT), the gold standard treatment for compulsive behaviors like internet addiction, which I train psychiatrists in as a Clinical Professor at UCSF Medical School. [...] > [...] This has been a wonderful opportunity to teach people a behavioral therapy technique to manage specific problematic/addictive behaviors (like excessive internet/gaming) by purposefully withdrawing from them for periods of time at the end of each day, week, quarter, and year. [...] Another quote I liked > [...] The American Psychiatric Association, who publishes the DSM-V, the bible of psychiatric disorders, now recognizes internet gaming disorder as a condition when the behavior becomes truly problematic and impairs social/occupational functioning. [...] The whole article is an informative read. Much more informative and factual than the one which is linked to (nytimes.com one). The latter is basically about these 2 persons and how they applied the principle to their life, according to their vision. But they exclude also IRL social contact, which Dr. Sepah actually recommends. [1] https://medium.com/@DrSepah/why-the-media-lies-to-you-about-dopamine-fasting-dceed8be007e https://medium.com/@DrSepah/why-the-media-lies-to-you-about-...
      - goactualize 7y ago
        Thank you, much appreciated!
- vekker 7y ago
  I don't know about that... for example, as smartphones become more and more ubiquitous, it becomes easy and cheap for people of all income levels to indulge in visual & auditory sensory overload. I'm currently traveling in Asia and it's jarring to see the number of people sitting idly, watching some random YouTube videos or Facebooking to pass the time.
  - EdwardDiego 7y ago
    > I'm currently traveling in Asia and it's jarring to see the number of people sitting idly, watching some random YouTube videos or Facebooking to pass the time. Why is it jarring?
    - BoorishBears 7y ago
      Because this person comes from a place where people watch random YouTube videos or Facebook somewhere less visible, like their offices, or their own homes.
    - Japhy_Ryder 7y ago
      Because there's an actual real world, with real people around us that we could be interacting with, rather than staring at a smartphone screen?
      - EdwardDiego 7y ago
        Why is it jarring to see in Asia, as opposed to everywhere else?
  - hinkley 7y ago
    The internet tells me that smoking costs about $2k a year. I’m pretty sure people are spending that much on cell phones now.
    - shantly 7y ago
      Hm. ~$600/yr for a not-great data plan. Call it $200/yr for the cheapest phone that won't make you want to toss it off a bridge or crush it underfoot, if you keep it three years. $800/yr as kinda the minimum to have a phone with the capabilities and usability to actually do anything with it without going into frugal-enough-it's-A-Thing-for-you territory, yeah, I could see $2k/yr not being that far off for a lot of people. Throw in $200/yr of IAP or subscriptions, a better data plan with a more realistic cap for heavy use, replacing your phone every two years instead of three and getting top-end models rather than older or mid-range ones. Yeah, $2k/yr's probably not an uncommon amount of cellphone-related spending in the US, I bet.
- ian0 7y ago
  People in second and third world countries also use phones. And view social media, read news.
- awinder 7y ago
  This is a very Silicon Valley sort of framing of a problem that is very core to the human experience. I’ve been reading through the (NIV) bible and it’s really interesting to connect a lot of passages to mindfulness (which derived from buddhism, also been around for thousands of years). It’s clear that humans have been struggling with the overactive mind for a long while. Anyways, knock the dopamine fasting practice all you want, I sure do xD. But it’s not a first world problem at its core, people have had these problems in much less active times in humans history and across different societal structures.
  - downvoted 7y ago
    It's also a very old problem--the need for people to find meaning in a world that is essentially devoid of any kind of meaning for them. The old, ancient problem. I would argue that these are the two defining problems of life: finding meaning, and finding purpose. The way we solve the first, by seeking meaning, and the way we solve the second, by finding purpose, is the same way we solve all other problems. Because, if we aren't finding meaning and purpose in life, then we are missing out on the very essence of what makes our life worth living.
donquichotte 7y ago
So they invented 1-day weekends? Time to find investors!
antonios 7y ago
Relevant (and maybe inspired this article): https://carnivoreaurelius.com/dopamine-fast/ https://carnivoreaurelius.com/dopamine-fast/
goactualize 7y ago
Terribly biased hit piece on Silicon Valley, here is my rebuttal: https://medium.com/@DrSepah/why-the-media-lies-to-you-about-dopamine-fasting-dceed8be007e https://medium.com/@DrSepah/why-the-media-lies-to-you-about-...
- fsiefken 7y ago
  yes they are violating the recommendation of Dr. Sepah's proposal and make it into a purity trip, a meditation retreat in daily life. "You don't need to “do nothing” or meditate during a dopamine fast (unless you’d like to). Just engage in regular activities that reflect your values: - Health-Promoting (exercise, cooking) - Leading (helping, serving others) - Relating (talking, bonding over activities) - Learning (reading, listening) - Creating (writing, art)" -- https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dopamine-fasting-new-silicon-valley-trend-dr-cameron-sepah/ https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dopamine-fasting-new-silicon-...
  - basq 7y ago
    This is something I came to slowly realize in the search for repairing my attention/depression issues. So far I've been getting good results. It started with giving up amphetamines (adderall, vyvanse), when that didn't do the trick, I removed alcohol and caffiene from my diet. The benefits I experienced led to stop smoking marijuana as well. That one was the toughest to give up, the anhedonia was torturous. It was like my brain forgot how to make dopamine. I couldn't enjoy any activity. It's been 38 days since I stopped smoking, and it seems that things are starting to improve. I'm able to work on my creative endeavors again in multiple short bursts. I've also massively cut down on porn consumption (from daily to biweekly on average, but trying to get rid of it all). As well as halved my newsmedia consumption (an avg of 10 hours a week down to 5, another thing I want to get close to zero). I've been reading a lot more, mostly philosophy (stoicism, daoism), but also worked through some other self help books as well as some science fiction. Still playing lots of games but, Im using it as my support system for the time being. Eventually I want to get even games down to just a very select few titles. It's am ongoing process, tempting to want to rid myself of everything but that would be setting myself up for failure, too overwhelming. Must ease into things. the benefits have been manifold, discipline, concentration, memory, emotional control have all improved, which cascade into fitness, eating better, getting work done, less procrastination, and my favorite: more time. Bill Burr said "a year sober is the longest year of your life" and it's true, the clock passes so much slower, which is great, life is starting to feel plentiful again. Anyway, I digress. But what I did notice is that is all comes back to dopamine. Some activities seem to give it more sustainably, others supernormally. And by limiting supernormal stimuli, we should expect to see positive effects.
beebmam 7y ago
This sounds extremely dangerous. Having low amounts of dopamine or even just a decreasing amount of dopamine can cause psychosis and Parkinson's disease. Don't listen to this garbage without talking to your doctor first.
- goactualize 7y ago
  Read my original guide: "This is not to demonize dopamine; it’s an important brain chemical, and people who are low in it (whether naturally or by taking antipsychotic medications) can be lethargic and anhedonic (taking little interest of pleasure in things). Also, properly-prescribed dopaminergic medications can help people with ADHD & Parkinson's improve their ability to focus and regulate their behavior. Rather, my point is that we may be getting too much of a good thing, especially when dopamine reinforces behaviors that are out of line with our values." https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dopamine-fasting-new-silicon-valley-trend-dr-cameron-sepah/ https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dopamine-fasting-new-silicon-...
- normalnorm 7y ago
  I think you are taking the title a bit to literally. By "dopamine fast", what is meant is abstaining from activities that give you "cheap" dopamine hits, such as participating in social media and receiving likes in your posts. This is absolutely safe. If you brain is healthy, it will produce the dopamine it needs either you want it or not. Abstaining from Facebook, or even abstaining from all activity and spending the day staring at a wall will not change that.
  - grabbalacious 7y ago
    Yes. To quote William Arkle, 'Purity is not goodness, it is having clear and undistorted communication with all our levels of experience.' 'The teaching of purity and simplicity is therefore not an attempt to narrow down our life and experience, it is not a type of punishment, it does not invalidate our individuality neither does it bring special dispensations with it from God. It is nothing more or less than what is understood in scientific terms as a law of condition of nature which we must accept and work with because it is not within our ability to change. To be pure is not to be in fear of making mistakes which will make God angry with us and thus punish us. It is rather to eradicate from our attitudes the hesitations and suspicions which prevent us acting and experiencing with intensity and conviction.' https://williamarkle.blogspot.com/2019/06/a-geography-of-consciousness-text.html https://williamarkle.blogspot.com/2019/06/a-geography-of-con... It isn't necessary to be formally religious to understand that the object of purity is to make the varying intensity of one's responses be truly integrated with the situations that one encounters, whether one is being attacked by a lion, at risk of ostracism, receiving good news, celebrating a birthday, etc.
nabdab 7y ago
Naming things is hard. This seems to be a scientifically proven and effective treatment which has proved benefits. But the name makes people have incorrect assumptions (and apparently also at least one practitioner). So it’s getting a lot of bad press. All because of a bad name.
- civilized 7y ago
  A predictably bad name that reflects Silicon Valley pretensions of "biohacking"
paloaltokid 7y ago
I liked this article. It seems like these guys are seeking some peace of mind during big time life stress. It seems like they might enjoy meditating?
- chewz 7y ago
  > It seems like they might enjoy meditating? I am sure - my impression from reading the article - these guys have already transcended meditation. They must have accumulated a lot of negative karma to be on such a wheel of suffering.
- grenoire 7y ago
  I was feeling mild about the whole thing until the very end where he decides not to talk to a friend long unseen because he's fasting. Come on, that's just ridiculously pretentious no matter what your goals or intentions are.
mlang23 7y ago
I think there should be a policy against posting paywall articles.
simond_d 7y ago
Sounds like a bit of a toss to me
gl00pp 7y ago
These guys are taking NNN too far.
- blaser-waffle 7y ago
  "Joyless January" "Yeah I'm doing JJ to really reset those D-P receptors, you know?"
hobo_mark 7y ago
Hahahaha, I guess the story originated from this tweet? https://twitter.com/jnymnz/status/1179175270105763846 https://twitter.com/jnymnz/status/1179175270105763846
friendlybus 7y ago
Yay nihilism. /s You can ascribe nearly anything to pleasure and dopamine. Never mind that a lot of people are addicted to facebook content partly because it generates a negative feeling.
- ayayecocojambo 7y ago
  what is it about nihlism?
- qntty 7y ago
  Weird to associate nihilism with something that the article compares to religious practice, which is emphatically not nihilistic.
  - friendlybus 7y ago
    Part of it's title is 'How to feel nothing now'. It is aiming at gaining a new life from nihilism. It has little to do with religion, that is the framework for the process of heading towards nothing. It has the same quality of mind emptying meditation that you can get from a Sam Harris workshop. It is fundamentally opposite from being on top of the world, having everything in order. It instead encourages you to clear out a valuable part of your life and society as if exiting downwards is productive. The article is on point for current trends, clear the air to let in the water gods. It's predictable.
Merrill 7y ago
>It consists of a period of abstention from earthy delights like sex, drugs, and, in some extreme cases, talking to other people, for 24 hours or more. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/vb5qb9/dopamine-fasting-is-the-newest-sounds-fake-but-ok-wellness-trend https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/vb5qb9/dopamine-fasting-i... See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asceticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asceticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vow_of_silence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vow_of_silence >In many monasteries it is the custom to begin the "Great Silence" after Compline, during which the whole community, including guests, observes silence throughout the night until the morning service the next day. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compline
naringas 7y ago
looks like a form of Ascetism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asceticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asceticism
- goactualize 7y ago
  "The point of dopamine fasting is not to encourage monasticism or masochism, Fun, enjoyment, and aesthetic appreciation are an important part of life" https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dopamine-fasting-new-silicon-valley-trend-dr-cameron-sepah/ https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dopamine-fasting-new-silicon-...
goldenkey 7y ago
I have used an herb Corydalis Yanhusuo [1] a dopamine D3 antagonist [2]. I buy the plum flower brand of tea pills [3] and take the normal recommended dose. It feels like anhedonia, relaxing, sort of similar to antipsychotics if you have ever taken anything like valproic acid. Don't take an absurd much or you'll get seratonin syndrome. p.s. it is also a great non narcotic solution for pain relief, more effective than NSAIDs alone. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corydalis_yanhusuo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corydalis_yanhusuo [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine_receptor_D3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine_receptor_D3 [3] https://amzn.to/36LNdJa https://amzn.to/36LNdJa
- loblollyboy 7y ago
  I just go on a jog
wccrawford 7y ago
Reading through this, it identifies something that I've seen a lot of people say is a problem, and suggests that the way to solve the problem is simply don't do it sometimes, on a schedule. While that may help, you've basically dedicated a portion of your life to not enjoying your life. Instead, I've taken a different tack. I've chosen to do those addictive things less, but instead of not-doing-fun-things, I do fun things that are at least somewhat productive. For me, that's making something or learning a new skill, usually in order to make something. Programming, woodworking, drawing, etc. Even just putting together Lego or Metal Earth figurines, though it's harder to justify them as "productive" rather than just fun. I still play video games. But I don't play those mobile games with the "gacha" mechanics. It's not that I don't enjoy them, but that I realize they take over my life and are not productive at all. At all. It's not at all easy to kick these bad habits this way, but it's way better than "dopamine fasting", IMO.
- cdiamand 7y ago
  I share a similar perspective. I often wonder how much more creative and productive we'd be if video games suddenly disappeared, or if by magic, the internet shut off at 8pm every night. I've observed that when the internet has gone down, or I've been unable to play videogames, I'm more likely to fill the downtime with building things.
  - nine_k 7y ago
    The internet is crucial for many people to be productive. If by "internet" you meant "fscebook, twitter, Instagram and the like", you already see the problem. I'd say that delaying gratification somewhat is key. If you stop the internal monkey from getting its immediate hit of dopamine, and get the conscious part of you involved, you can be productive and enjoy it.
    - mercacona 7y ago
      Maybe we assume that the internet is crucial to be productive (personally), but it might not be necessary. Productivity isn't just about checking tasks. I mean, how mAny individual creative action require to be online once you chose tools that don't require it?
ryandvm 7y ago
> The other day, Mr. Sinka ran into an old friend but had to tell her they could not continue speaking. > “I hadn’t seen her in six months, and it was extraordinarily exciting, super-stimulating, and I could feel how excited I was,” he said. “So I had to cut it off and I just said, ‘Listen, it’s not you, it’s me, doing this dopamine fast.’” If this were on HBO's Silicon Valley, we would dismiss it as too over-the-top.
- magashna 7y ago
  I wouldn't be able to hold back laughter if I heard this. It seems like something a parody of hipsters would say. "My life is too good, I need to make it worse" but still be as self centered as possible. God forbid someone does difficult volunteer work instead of this "dopamine fast".
  - jodrellblank 7y ago
    God forbid you do some difficult volunteer work instead of this "putting people down and mocking them" internet commenting. Incidentally, why is it that so many people argue that wealth comes from doing things people value, but then support volunteer work? If it's the case that helping people makes money, all the people needing help should have entrepreneurs all over them, rather than hoping for unpaid volunteers. And why would people tend to become volunteers if continually told that virtue comes from measurably productive money making?
    - magashna 7y ago
      I do both, and I'm also not sure what your tangent has to do with me.
      - jodrellblank 7y ago
        Then why can't the article person do volunteering and dopamine fasting? My tangent has nothing to do with you; not everything is to do with you.
- 7y ago
bitexploder 7y ago
Cal Newport wrote an entire book around this called Digital Minimalism. I encourage folks to take a look. Taking an occasional break is good. Making technology actually work for you is better.
- goactualize 7y ago
  Cal is the OG and deserves credit for popularizing this for a previous generation.
vbo 7y ago
tl;dr hipsters identify niche, become urban monks
chasd00 7y ago
isn't this just the Straight Edge thing that was popular in the 90s? There's a whole subculture for it.
- magashna 7y ago
  Straight Edge people don't use drugs or drink, and some abstain from sex. I've also met a few that would instead get their rush from fighting non-edge people. Just like the people in the article, basing your entire personality around abstinence makes a person a 1-dimensional asshole.
  - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
    > Just like the people in the article, basing your entire personality around abstinence makes a person a 1-dimensional asshole. I'd say it can sometimes make you an asshole along many dimensions.
mark_l_watson 7y ago
Two of my friends just went on a five day retreat in which there was no talking and everyone had their own mini-cabin in the woods. This seems like prime dopamine fasting.
neilobremski 7y ago
I can't say I agree with this (besides how silly it reads). Outright avoidance as a periodic tact sounds like jarring panacea. One day I wake up in a flood of sensations and the next day I stick my head in the sand? Where is the adaptation, the learning, the evolution?
cestith 7y ago
So... they reinvented Shabbat?
bob1029 7y ago
I find exercise is the best solution along similar lines for me, and has the added side effect of actually making you stronger and healthier. The difference is night and day: If I don't regularly exercise, I'll get burned out very quickly on some task I would have normally found fun previously. E.g. some highly-intense game like a competitive multiplayer shooter, or even a difficult programming challenge. Even interacting with other people can suck in this mode. If I am regularly exercising (I.e. 30 minutes of cardio every day or better), I can carry through marathon sessions of gaming or coding with a smile on my face the entire time. My social tolerance levels are infinitely higher than without. I still don't fully understand all of the biology behind this, but it seems that regular exercise is a great way to pay-forward the debt that is incurred when you stimulate your dopamine receptors. Maybe there is some relationship between exercise/sleep/dopamine/serotonin, because I find that regular exercise yields substantially deeper sleep, and when I wake up from this I feel like I want to engage in challenging tasks.
gumby 7y ago
These guys are trolling the NYT, right? It reminds me of an article a few years ago about the socks of "Silicon Valley" which was clearly a troll from someone in SF (https://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/05/fashion/in-silicon-valley-socks-make-the-tech-entrepreneur.html https://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/05/fashion/in-silicon-valley...)
vhpoet 7y ago
Vipassana for people who can't afford to leave San Francisco for 10 days.
eaandkw 7y ago
So let me get this straight. People do a dopamine fast by avoiding anything that would be considered fun and enjoyable so that they can be completely rested and enjoy work more? Sounds like a bad trade off. We should probably just work less.

Dopamine Fasting

190 points by sajid 7y ago

vixen99 7y ago

Paywall

dang 7y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21480099 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21480099

neonate 7y ago

http://archive.is/uvfnI http://archive.is/uvfnI

russellbeattie 7y ago
Just go into your browser's settings (most likely Chrome), and turn off both cookies and JavaScript in Site Settings for just www.nytimes.com. Poof, no more paywall.
dvfjsdhgfv 7y ago
I love the fact that uBlock Origin has a little switch for JS in the bottom-left corner. Works like a charm for most websites like these and make your overall experience much more agreable.

songzme 7y ago

The struggles of first world problems...

Fnoord 7y ago
It came across to me as a light version of Buddhist (Vipassanā) meditation.
- psv1 7y ago
  Yes, I Ctrl-F-ed "Vipassana" when I read the description but it was used in a very different context.
  - Fnoord 7y ago
    From another post in this thread I found [1], written by the person who coined the term (Dr. Cameron Sepah, Executive Psychologist & Venture Capitalist, Assistant Clinical Professor, UCSF School of Medicine), and who sees it being hijacked in media. > [...] Dopamine Fasting is based on Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy (CBT), the gold standard treatment for compulsive behaviors like internet addiction, which I train psychiatrists in as a Clinical Professor at UCSF Medical School. [...] > [...] This has been a wonderful opportunity to teach people a behavioral therapy technique to manage specific problematic/addictive behaviors (like excessive internet/gaming) by purposefully withdrawing from them for periods of time at the end of each day, week, quarter, and year. [...] Another quote I liked > [...] The American Psychiatric Association, who publishes the DSM-V, the bible of psychiatric disorders, now recognizes internet gaming disorder as a condition when the behavior becomes truly problematic and impairs social/occupational functioning. [...] The whole article is an informative read. Much more informative and factual than the one which is linked to (nytimes.com one). The latter is basically about these 2 persons and how they applied the principle to their life, according to their vision. But they exclude also IRL social contact, which Dr. Sepah actually recommends. [1] https://medium.com/@DrSepah/why-the-media-lies-to-you-about-dopamine-fasting-dceed8be007e https://medium.com/@DrSepah/why-the-media-lies-to-you-about-...
    - goactualize 7y ago
      Thank you, much appreciated!
vekker 7y ago
I don't know about that... for example, as smartphones become more and more ubiquitous, it becomes easy and cheap for people of all income levels to indulge in visual & auditory sensory overload. I'm currently traveling in Asia and it's jarring to see the number of people sitting idly, watching some random YouTube videos or Facebooking to pass the time.
- EdwardDiego 7y ago
  > I'm currently traveling in Asia and it's jarring to see the number of people sitting idly, watching some random YouTube videos or Facebooking to pass the time. Why is it jarring?
  - BoorishBears 7y ago
    Because this person comes from a place where people watch random YouTube videos or Facebook somewhere less visible, like their offices, or their own homes.
  - Japhy_Ryder 7y ago
    Because there's an actual real world, with real people around us that we could be interacting with, rather than staring at a smartphone screen?
    - EdwardDiego 7y ago
      Why is it jarring to see in Asia, as opposed to everywhere else?
- hinkley 7y ago
  The internet tells me that smoking costs about $2k a year. I’m pretty sure people are spending that much on cell phones now.
  - shantly 7y ago
    Hm. ~$600/yr for a not-great data plan. Call it $200/yr for the cheapest phone that won't make you want to toss it off a bridge or crush it underfoot, if you keep it three years. $800/yr as kinda the minimum to have a phone with the capabilities and usability to actually do anything with it without going into frugal-enough-it's-A-Thing-for-you territory, yeah, I could see $2k/yr not being that far off for a lot of people. Throw in $200/yr of IAP or subscriptions, a better data plan with a more realistic cap for heavy use, replacing your phone every two years instead of three and getting top-end models rather than older or mid-range ones. Yeah, $2k/yr's probably not an uncommon amount of cellphone-related spending in the US, I bet.
ian0 7y ago
People in second and third world countries also use phones. And view social media, read news.
awinder 7y ago
This is a very Silicon Valley sort of framing of a problem that is very core to the human experience. I’ve been reading through the (NIV) bible and it’s really interesting to connect a lot of passages to mindfulness (which derived from buddhism, also been around for thousands of years). It’s clear that humans have been struggling with the overactive mind for a long while. Anyways, knock the dopamine fasting practice all you want, I sure do xD. But it’s not a first world problem at its core, people have had these problems in much less active times in humans history and across different societal structures.
- downvoted 7y ago
  It's also a very old problem--the need for people to find meaning in a world that is essentially devoid of any kind of meaning for them. The old, ancient problem. I would argue that these are the two defining problems of life: finding meaning, and finding purpose. The way we solve the first, by seeking meaning, and the way we solve the second, by finding purpose, is the same way we solve all other problems. Because, if we aren't finding meaning and purpose in life, then we are missing out on the very essence of what makes our life worth living.

donquichotte 7y ago

So they invented 1-day weekends? Time to find investors!

antonios 7y ago

Relevant (and maybe inspired this article): https://carnivoreaurelius.com/dopamine-fast/ https://carnivoreaurelius.com/dopamine-fast/

goactualize 7y ago

Terribly biased hit piece on Silicon Valley, here is my rebuttal: https://medium.com/@DrSepah/why-the-media-lies-to-you-about-dopamine-fasting-dceed8be007e https://medium.com/@DrSepah/why-the-media-lies-to-you-about-...

fsiefken 7y ago
yes they are violating the recommendation of Dr. Sepah's proposal and make it into a purity trip, a meditation retreat in daily life. "You don't need to “do nothing” or meditate during a dopamine fast (unless you’d like to). Just engage in regular activities that reflect your values: - Health-Promoting (exercise, cooking) - Leading (helping, serving others) - Relating (talking, bonding over activities) - Learning (reading, listening) - Creating (writing, art)" -- https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dopamine-fasting-new-silicon-valley-trend-dr-cameron-sepah/ https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dopamine-fasting-new-silicon-...
- basq 7y ago
  This is something I came to slowly realize in the search for repairing my attention/depression issues. So far I've been getting good results. It started with giving up amphetamines (adderall, vyvanse), when that didn't do the trick, I removed alcohol and caffiene from my diet. The benefits I experienced led to stop smoking marijuana as well. That one was the toughest to give up, the anhedonia was torturous. It was like my brain forgot how to make dopamine. I couldn't enjoy any activity. It's been 38 days since I stopped smoking, and it seems that things are starting to improve. I'm able to work on my creative endeavors again in multiple short bursts. I've also massively cut down on porn consumption (from daily to biweekly on average, but trying to get rid of it all). As well as halved my newsmedia consumption (an avg of 10 hours a week down to 5, another thing I want to get close to zero). I've been reading a lot more, mostly philosophy (stoicism, daoism), but also worked through some other self help books as well as some science fiction. Still playing lots of games but, Im using it as my support system for the time being. Eventually I want to get even games down to just a very select few titles. It's am ongoing process, tempting to want to rid myself of everything but that would be setting myself up for failure, too overwhelming. Must ease into things. the benefits have been manifold, discipline, concentration, memory, emotional control have all improved, which cascade into fitness, eating better, getting work done, less procrastination, and my favorite: more time. Bill Burr said "a year sober is the longest year of your life" and it's true, the clock passes so much slower, which is great, life is starting to feel plentiful again. Anyway, I digress. But what I did notice is that is all comes back to dopamine. Some activities seem to give it more sustainably, others supernormally. And by limiting supernormal stimuli, we should expect to see positive effects.

beebmam 7y ago

This sounds extremely dangerous. Having low amounts of dopamine or even just a decreasing amount of dopamine can cause psychosis and Parkinson's disease. Don't listen to this garbage without talking to your doctor first.

goactualize 7y ago
Read my original guide: "This is not to demonize dopamine; it’s an important brain chemical, and people who are low in it (whether naturally or by taking antipsychotic medications) can be lethargic and anhedonic (taking little interest of pleasure in things). Also, properly-prescribed dopaminergic medications can help people with ADHD & Parkinson's improve their ability to focus and regulate their behavior. Rather, my point is that we may be getting too much of a good thing, especially when dopamine reinforces behaviors that are out of line with our values." https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dopamine-fasting-new-silicon-valley-trend-dr-cameron-sepah/ https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dopamine-fasting-new-silicon-...
normalnorm 7y ago
I think you are taking the title a bit to literally. By "dopamine fast", what is meant is abstaining from activities that give you "cheap" dopamine hits, such as participating in social media and receiving likes in your posts. This is absolutely safe. If you brain is healthy, it will produce the dopamine it needs either you want it or not. Abstaining from Facebook, or even abstaining from all activity and spending the day staring at a wall will not change that.
- grabbalacious 7y ago
  Yes. To quote William Arkle, 'Purity is not goodness, it is having clear and undistorted communication with all our levels of experience.' 'The teaching of purity and simplicity is therefore not an attempt to narrow down our life and experience, it is not a type of punishment, it does not invalidate our individuality neither does it bring special dispensations with it from God. It is nothing more or less than what is understood in scientific terms as a law of condition of nature which we must accept and work with because it is not within our ability to change. To be pure is not to be in fear of making mistakes which will make God angry with us and thus punish us. It is rather to eradicate from our attitudes the hesitations and suspicions which prevent us acting and experiencing with intensity and conviction.' https://williamarkle.blogspot.com/2019/06/a-geography-of-consciousness-text.html https://williamarkle.blogspot.com/2019/06/a-geography-of-con... It isn't necessary to be formally religious to understand that the object of purity is to make the varying intensity of one's responses be truly integrated with the situations that one encounters, whether one is being attacked by a lion, at risk of ostracism, receiving good news, celebrating a birthday, etc.

nabdab 7y ago

Naming things is hard. This seems to be a scientifically proven and effective treatment which has proved benefits. But the name makes people have incorrect assumptions (and apparently also at least one practitioner). So it’s getting a lot of bad press. All because of a bad name.

civilized 7y ago
A predictably bad name that reflects Silicon Valley pretensions of "biohacking"

paloaltokid 7y ago

I liked this article. It seems like these guys are seeking some peace of mind during big time life stress. It seems like they might enjoy meditating?

chewz 7y ago
> It seems like they might enjoy meditating? I am sure - my impression from reading the article - these guys have already transcended meditation. They must have accumulated a lot of negative karma to be on such a wheel of suffering.
grenoire 7y ago
I was feeling mild about the whole thing until the very end where he decides not to talk to a friend long unseen because he's fasting. Come on, that's just ridiculously pretentious no matter what your goals or intentions are.

mlang23 7y ago

I think there should be a policy against posting paywall articles.

simond_d 7y ago

Sounds like a bit of a toss to me

gl00pp 7y ago

These guys are taking NNN too far.

blaser-waffle 7y ago
"Joyless January" "Yeah I'm doing JJ to really reset those D-P receptors, you know?"

hobo_mark 7y ago

Hahahaha, I guess the story originated from this tweet? https://twitter.com/jnymnz/status/1179175270105763846 https://twitter.com/jnymnz/status/1179175270105763846

friendlybus 7y ago

Yay nihilism. /s You can ascribe nearly anything to pleasure and dopamine. Never mind that a lot of people are addicted to facebook content partly because it generates a negative feeling.

ayayecocojambo 7y ago
what is it about nihlism?
qntty 7y ago
Weird to associate nihilism with something that the article compares to religious practice, which is emphatically not nihilistic.
- friendlybus 7y ago
  Part of it's title is 'How to feel nothing now'. It is aiming at gaining a new life from nihilism. It has little to do with religion, that is the framework for the process of heading towards nothing. It has the same quality of mind emptying meditation that you can get from a Sam Harris workshop. It is fundamentally opposite from being on top of the world, having everything in order. It instead encourages you to clear out a valuable part of your life and society as if exiting downwards is productive. The article is on point for current trends, clear the air to let in the water gods. It's predictable.

Merrill 7y ago

>It consists of a period of abstention from earthy delights like sex, drugs, and, in some extreme cases, talking to other people, for 24 hours or more. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/vb5qb9/dopamine-fasting-is-the-newest-sounds-fake-but-ok-wellness-trend https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/vb5qb9/dopamine-fasting-i... See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asceticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asceticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vow_of_silence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vow_of_silence >In many monasteries it is the custom to begin the "Great Silence" after Compline, during which the whole community, including guests, observes silence throughout the night until the morning service the next day. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compline

naringas 7y ago

looks like a form of Ascetism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asceticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asceticism

goactualize 7y ago
"The point of dopamine fasting is not to encourage monasticism or masochism, Fun, enjoyment, and aesthetic appreciation are an important part of life" https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dopamine-fasting-new-silicon-valley-trend-dr-cameron-sepah/ https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dopamine-fasting-new-silicon-...

goldenkey 7y ago

I have used an herb Corydalis Yanhusuo [1] a dopamine D3 antagonist [2]. I buy the plum flower brand of tea pills [3] and take the normal recommended dose. It feels like anhedonia, relaxing, sort of similar to antipsychotics if you have ever taken anything like valproic acid. Don't take an absurd much or you'll get seratonin syndrome. p.s. it is also a great non narcotic solution for pain relief, more effective than NSAIDs alone. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corydalis_yanhusuo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corydalis_yanhusuo [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine_receptor_D3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine_receptor_D3 [3] https://amzn.to/36LNdJa https://amzn.to/36LNdJa

loblollyboy 7y ago
I just go on a jog

wccrawford 7y ago

Reading through this, it identifies something that I've seen a lot of people say is a problem, and suggests that the way to solve the problem is simply don't do it sometimes, on a schedule. While that may help, you've basically dedicated a portion of your life to not enjoying your life. Instead, I've taken a different tack. I've chosen to do those addictive things less, but instead of not-doing-fun-things, I do fun things that are at least somewhat productive. For me, that's making something or learning a new skill, usually in order to make something. Programming, woodworking, drawing, etc. Even just putting together Lego or Metal Earth figurines, though it's harder to justify them as "productive" rather than just fun. I still play video games. But I don't play those mobile games with the "gacha" mechanics. It's not that I don't enjoy them, but that I realize they take over my life and are not productive at all. At all. It's not at all easy to kick these bad habits this way, but it's way better than "dopamine fasting", IMO.

cdiamand 7y ago
I share a similar perspective. I often wonder how much more creative and productive we'd be if video games suddenly disappeared, or if by magic, the internet shut off at 8pm every night. I've observed that when the internet has gone down, or I've been unable to play videogames, I'm more likely to fill the downtime with building things.
- nine_k 7y ago
  The internet is crucial for many people to be productive. If by "internet" you meant "fscebook, twitter, Instagram and the like", you already see the problem. I'd say that delaying gratification somewhat is key. If you stop the internal monkey from getting its immediate hit of dopamine, and get the conscious part of you involved, you can be productive and enjoy it.
  - mercacona 7y ago
    Maybe we assume that the internet is crucial to be productive (personally), but it might not be necessary. Productivity isn't just about checking tasks. I mean, how mAny individual creative action require to be online once you chose tools that don't require it?

ryandvm 7y ago

> The other day, Mr. Sinka ran into an old friend but had to tell her they could not continue speaking. > “I hadn’t seen her in six months, and it was extraordinarily exciting, super-stimulating, and I could feel how excited I was,” he said. “So I had to cut it off and I just said, ‘Listen, it’s not you, it’s me, doing this dopamine fast.’” If this were on HBO's Silicon Valley, we would dismiss it as too over-the-top.

magashna 7y ago
I wouldn't be able to hold back laughter if I heard this. It seems like something a parody of hipsters would say. "My life is too good, I need to make it worse" but still be as self centered as possible. God forbid someone does difficult volunteer work instead of this "dopamine fast".
- jodrellblank 7y ago
  God forbid you do some difficult volunteer work instead of this "putting people down and mocking them" internet commenting. Incidentally, why is it that so many people argue that wealth comes from doing things people value, but then support volunteer work? If it's the case that helping people makes money, all the people needing help should have entrepreneurs all over them, rather than hoping for unpaid volunteers. And why would people tend to become volunteers if continually told that virtue comes from measurably productive money making?
  - magashna 7y ago
    I do both, and I'm also not sure what your tangent has to do with me.
    - jodrellblank 7y ago
      Then why can't the article person do volunteering and dopamine fasting? My tangent has nothing to do with you; not everything is to do with you.
7y ago

bitexploder 7y ago

Cal Newport wrote an entire book around this called Digital Minimalism. I encourage folks to take a look. Taking an occasional break is good. Making technology actually work for you is better.

goactualize 7y ago
Cal is the OG and deserves credit for popularizing this for a previous generation.

vbo 7y ago

tl;dr hipsters identify niche, become urban monks

chasd00 7y ago

isn't this just the Straight Edge thing that was popular in the 90s? There's a whole subculture for it.

magashna 7y ago
Straight Edge people don't use drugs or drink, and some abstain from sex. I've also met a few that would instead get their rush from fighting non-edge people. Just like the people in the article, basing your entire personality around abstinence makes a person a 1-dimensional asshole.
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  > Just like the people in the article, basing your entire personality around abstinence makes a person a 1-dimensional asshole. I'd say it can sometimes make you an asshole along many dimensions.

mark_l_watson 7y ago

Two of my friends just went on a five day retreat in which there was no talking and everyone had their own mini-cabin in the woods. This seems like prime dopamine fasting.

neilobremski 7y ago

I can't say I agree with this (besides how silly it reads). Outright avoidance as a periodic tact sounds like jarring panacea. One day I wake up in a flood of sensations and the next day I stick my head in the sand? Where is the adaptation, the learning, the evolution?

cestith 7y ago

So... they reinvented Shabbat?

bob1029 7y ago

I find exercise is the best solution along similar lines for me, and has the added side effect of actually making you stronger and healthier. The difference is night and day: If I don't regularly exercise, I'll get burned out very quickly on some task I would have normally found fun previously. E.g. some highly-intense game like a competitive multiplayer shooter, or even a difficult programming challenge. Even interacting with other people can suck in this mode. If I am regularly exercising (I.e. 30 minutes of cardio every day or better), I can carry through marathon sessions of gaming or coding with a smile on my face the entire time. My social tolerance levels are infinitely higher than without. I still don't fully understand all of the biology behind this, but it seems that regular exercise is a great way to pay-forward the debt that is incurred when you stimulate your dopamine receptors. Maybe there is some relationship between exercise/sleep/dopamine/serotonin, because I find that regular exercise yields substantially deeper sleep, and when I wake up from this I feel like I want to engage in challenging tasks.

gumby 7y ago

These guys are trolling the NYT, right? It reminds me of an article a few years ago about the socks of "Silicon Valley" which was clearly a troll from someone in SF (https://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/05/fashion/in-silicon-valley-socks-make-the-tech-entrepreneur.html https://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/05/fashion/in-silicon-valley...)

vhpoet 7y ago

Vipassana for people who can't afford to leave San Francisco for 10 days.

eaandkw 7y ago

So let me get this straight. People do a dopamine fast by avoiding anything that would be considered fun and enjoyable so that they can be completely rested and enjoy work more? Sounds like a bad trade off. We should probably just work less.