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> Do clients hire consultants to build software without knowing at least something about what software needs to be built? Yes? All the time. "I've heard about

> Do clients hire consultants to build software without knowing at least something about what software needs to be built? Yes? All the time. "I've heard about this thing called machine learning. Come assess how I can use it in my business." "We have a problem where orders are missing their commit dates and we need something built to find those earlier in our procurement process. Maybe our new cloud ERP can help...?" So they have some degree of knowledge around the success criteria (what) and the value (why) but even those need to be shaped up and agreed upon. And then the design considerations, approaches, tradeoffs, constraints, risks, options, etc. (the how) is somewhere between directionally correct and nonexistent.

JamesBarney 7y ago
It seems to me you find people who have a vague idea of what project they want built the same way you find people who have a fleshed out idea of what project they want built. And I'd much rather find people who have fleshed out idea of what they want to purchase. They seem to much more reliably and quickly pull the trigger. Imagine you're selling ERP systems and you have a client who says "we need an ERP system that has features X,Y, and Z" versus "we think we need sometype of system to manage our business" Which client do you prioritize? Every good sales person in the world will tell you the first one.
- rpeden 7y ago
  True, if you're selling ERP systems. If you're selling ERP consulting where you go in and help clients figure out what they actually need, client #2 would be a better prospect because client #1 doesn't need your services. :)
  - JamesBarney 7y ago
    That's definitely true that you want to be selling what your client is buying :). But even in that circumstance I'd rather approach a lead that says "We need a consultant to come for a week look over our processes, and help us decide between these three ERP based on this criteria" :).
    - rpeden 7y ago
      That's fair, and your scenario is probably a good fit for a solo consultant. Companies who have no clue what to do but have a pile of money to burn tend to bring in big blue-chip consulting firms.
      - JamesBarney 7y ago
        I worked at Accenture, Avanade, a 100 person consulting company before starting my own with a couple of friends. And pretty much every time the client brought us in they had a pretty good idea what they wanted. Sometimes we'd be able to find problems the customer didn't know they had or solutions they didn't think about but that was almost never the reason for the original engagement.
- monknomo 7y ago
  It's usually more "We think we need some type of system to manage our business, please deliver a white paper and presentation comparing options, and then stand by to design the option we choose"
  - JamesBarney 7y ago
    Yeah, we've had a couple of leads like this but each has wasted an enormous amount of our time. The general story has been they'll bring in several companies, we'll compete to get their business. We'll win the "competition" and then they'll assure us they're right about to pull the trigger for years. I've found that a large portion of clients that have vague idea of what they want are window shopping or very early in the purchasing process, that usually when I have vague requirements I'm usually pretty far from writing a large check. And it's really difficult(for me at least) to tell the difference between "I want to write a large check to solve a problem which I don't have any proposed solutions for" and "I have no idea what problem I want to solve, and if I even want to solve it, but I'd like to bring in a highly paid expert and chat with him for free to figure out if I even want to solve this problem".
    - monknomo 7y ago
      Ah right, that's the key. Window shopping is ok, if it's the kind where they will write a check for you to help with the shopping. Window shopping where they are not anywhere near writing a check is no good, and is something sales funnel should try to actively disqualify leads for

JamesBarney 7y ago

It seems to me you find people who have a vague idea of what project they want built the same way you find people who have a fleshed out idea of what project they want built. And I'd much rather find people who have fleshed out idea of what they want to purchase. They seem to much more reliably and quickly pull the trigger. Imagine you're selling ERP systems and you have a client who says "we need an ERP system that has features X,Y, and Z" versus "we think we need sometype of system to manage our business" Which client do you prioritize? Every good sales person in the world will tell you the first one.

rpeden 7y ago
True, if you're selling ERP systems. If you're selling ERP consulting where you go in and help clients figure out what they actually need, client #2 would be a better prospect because client #1 doesn't need your services. :)
- JamesBarney 7y ago
  That's definitely true that you want to be selling what your client is buying :). But even in that circumstance I'd rather approach a lead that says "We need a consultant to come for a week look over our processes, and help us decide between these three ERP based on this criteria" :).
  - rpeden 7y ago
    That's fair, and your scenario is probably a good fit for a solo consultant. Companies who have no clue what to do but have a pile of money to burn tend to bring in big blue-chip consulting firms.
    - JamesBarney 7y ago
      I worked at Accenture, Avanade, a 100 person consulting company before starting my own with a couple of friends. And pretty much every time the client brought us in they had a pretty good idea what they wanted. Sometimes we'd be able to find problems the customer didn't know they had or solutions they didn't think about but that was almost never the reason for the original engagement.
monknomo 7y ago
It's usually more "We think we need some type of system to manage our business, please deliver a white paper and presentation comparing options, and then stand by to design the option we choose"
- JamesBarney 7y ago
  Yeah, we've had a couple of leads like this but each has wasted an enormous amount of our time. The general story has been they'll bring in several companies, we'll compete to get their business. We'll win the "competition" and then they'll assure us they're right about to pull the trigger for years. I've found that a large portion of clients that have vague idea of what they want are window shopping or very early in the purchasing process, that usually when I have vague requirements I'm usually pretty far from writing a large check. And it's really difficult(for me at least) to tell the difference between "I want to write a large check to solve a problem which I don't have any proposed solutions for" and "I have no idea what problem I want to solve, and if I even want to solve it, but I'd like to bring in a highly paid expert and chat with him for free to figure out if I even want to solve this problem".
  - monknomo 7y ago
    Ah right, that's the key. Window shopping is ok, if it's the kind where they will write a check for you to help with the shopping. Window shopping where they are not anywhere near writing a check is no good, and is something sales funnel should try to actively disqualify leads for