4 ms·

Where is Israel coming here into your argument? Just because you don't like Israel and what they are doing doesn't mean you should treat them the same as Saudi

Where is Israel coming here into your argument? Just because you don't like Israel and what they are doing doesn't mean you should treat them the same as Saudi Arabia and create a narrative around them together.

twchjop 7y ago
NSO (Israel) hacked Jamal Kashoggi's contact via WhatsApp & passed whereabouts of Kashoggi to Saudi Arabia which eventually led to his death. If we cannot hold Saudi for human rights violations & let the enabler like Israel go scott free.
- pms 7y ago
  Is this true? Why nobody talks about this?
  - papreclip 7y ago
    Apparently because it gets your post nuked, whatever it was
    - the-dude 7y ago
      You can turn on show-dead in your profile and it is un-nuked.
L_Rahman 7y ago
They're both prominent US allies; they're states with some religious identity fundamental to their existence; they're integrated into American civic society - Saudi money in the US economy, academic partnerships between US and Israeli universities; they disenfranchise their own citizens to varying degrees; they buy American weapons and count on American military support to maintain geopolitical relations. Oh, and they both use the strength of their relationship with the US to make certain parts of the world unlivable for people they don't like.
- throwGuardian 7y ago
  False equivalency. Israel is pretty much the only Democratic, liberal country in the middle East, with Western level women's rights/empowerment, LGBTQ protections, legal protection for minorites, etc. And a land of massive innovation. US universities aren't partnering with Israel because it's politically convenient, but because Israeli universities breed world leading research in many areas. Which is why most high tech companies have an Israeli division, and which is also why Israel has one of the world's highest per capita entrepreneurship, patents and peer reviewed scientific publications. Contrast that to Autocratic Saudi Arabia where women weren't allowed to drive, or move about in public without approved male company until a year or two, where the LGBTQ are punished by death, where every non Muslim is systemically discriminated with a religions tax [1], where critical Tweets about the establishment routinely land people in jail, where the actual law of the land [2] is a throwback to the middle ages, with almost no scientific or cultural output of significance! [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya [2]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_system_of_Saudi_Arabia#Constitutional_law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_system_of_Saudi_Arabia...
  - pnako 7y ago
    I think you're the one doing the false equivalency. I'm not defending Saudi Arabia, which is indeed as backward as it gets, but in the case of Israel, if you want to talk about discrimination and human rights abuse, you cannot ignore (like you did) the way the indigenous population is treated, in what is effectively an apartheid state.
    - TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
      The real equivalency is that Saudi Arabia, Israel, the US, Russia, China, and - increasingly - the UK and other satellite states are now essentially extreme nationalist regimes with a far-right political slant and a fondness for various forms of violence. The differences are more about superficial local colour than political dynamics, which are becoming depressingly consistent across the board. It's becoming less and less surprising that there are high-level links between all of them which converge through the use of social media and other tools of influence.

twchjop 7y ago

NSO (Israel) hacked Jamal Kashoggi's contact via WhatsApp & passed whereabouts of Kashoggi to Saudi Arabia which eventually led to his death. If we cannot hold Saudi for human rights violations & let the enabler like Israel go scott free.

pms 7y ago
Is this true? Why nobody talks about this?
- papreclip 7y ago
  Apparently because it gets your post nuked, whatever it was
  - the-dude 7y ago
    You can turn on show-dead in your profile and it is un-nuked.

L_Rahman 7y ago

They're both prominent US allies; they're states with some religious identity fundamental to their existence; they're integrated into American civic society - Saudi money in the US economy, academic partnerships between US and Israeli universities; they disenfranchise their own citizens to varying degrees; they buy American weapons and count on American military support to maintain geopolitical relations. Oh, and they both use the strength of their relationship with the US to make certain parts of the world unlivable for people they don't like.

throwGuardian 7y ago
False equivalency. Israel is pretty much the only Democratic, liberal country in the middle East, with Western level women's rights/empowerment, LGBTQ protections, legal protection for minorites, etc. And a land of massive innovation. US universities aren't partnering with Israel because it's politically convenient, but because Israeli universities breed world leading research in many areas. Which is why most high tech companies have an Israeli division, and which is also why Israel has one of the world's highest per capita entrepreneurship, patents and peer reviewed scientific publications. Contrast that to Autocratic Saudi Arabia where women weren't allowed to drive, or move about in public without approved male company until a year or two, where the LGBTQ are punished by death, where every non Muslim is systemically discriminated with a religions tax [1], where critical Tweets about the establishment routinely land people in jail, where the actual law of the land [2] is a throwback to the middle ages, with almost no scientific or cultural output of significance! [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya [2]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_system_of_Saudi_Arabia#Constitutional_law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_system_of_Saudi_Arabia...
- pnako 7y ago
  I think you're the one doing the false equivalency. I'm not defending Saudi Arabia, which is indeed as backward as it gets, but in the case of Israel, if you want to talk about discrimination and human rights abuse, you cannot ignore (like you did) the way the indigenous population is treated, in what is effectively an apartheid state.
  - TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
    The real equivalency is that Saudi Arabia, Israel, the US, Russia, China, and - increasingly - the UK and other satellite states are now essentially extreme nationalist regimes with a far-right political slant and a fondness for various forms of violence. The differences are more about superficial local colour than political dynamics, which are becoming depressingly consistent across the board. It's becoming less and less surprising that there are high-level links between all of them which converge through the use of social media and other tools of influence.