5 ms·

Don't ask permission, just do it anyways. That's what I've done and it's only led to increased pay and broader opportunity to demand flexible work hours.

spurdoman77 7y ago
Well if your work contract allows "not asking for permissions", why not.
bamboozled 7y ago
Agree, do it until someone has a problem with it, and then find another way to do it, like finding a new job (if you have the luxury).
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
merouan 7y ago
I appreciate the sentiment and agree on an individual level but it’s not reproducible across the entire workforce. There is a certain degree of privilege required to even feel comfortable adopting this policy. As software engineers some of us have that privilege but few other workers do.
- lugg 7y ago
  Software engineers aren't special. Please stop treating them as some enlightened class. They're not. Software engineers face the same idiocy as everyone else. Every other industry has smart, creative, individuals willing to buck the system and try new things for an edge. If you truly believe people can't express a simple argument for trialing this sort of thing without losing their jobs maybe they should be looking for a new job because their current one sounds like a train wreck waiting to happen.
  - amosquito 7y ago
    Mate you are mental. This simplified thought drives me nuts. Software Engineering has a massive IQ-based barrier to entry. Not only that, your advantages are in large part, from a purely technical perspective, are reflected in your ability to consume algorithms, techniques, and hold more variables in your head at a faster rate than others. It's an incredibly unique union of art and engineering, we are in demand as every industry needs it, and there is a genetic bottleneck. We suffer from massive privilege because even semi-technical people have no idea what the fuck we are doing, so oversight is limited at best. As someone who came from being a huge overachiever in a different industry, we are insanely privileged.
    - overkalix 7y ago
      This might be one of the most obnoxiously deluded things I've read all year.
      - tmn 7y ago
        Can you refute their points more directly?
        hmschreck 7y ago
        First, there is no IQ barrier. I have several friends who, based on psychologist-administered IQ tests, are very, very close to average, who do well in the industry, usually better than me. They worked hard to get where they wanted to go. Sure, you probably can't do this work if you have an IQ under 85, but the same can be said for most any knowledge or even office job. It's not like we're unique in that regard. Second, a "genetic bottleneck"? That absolutely reeks of genetic elitism. It implies, rather heavily, that they are genetically superior to those who cannot (or just don't) do this work. The idea that we are special because no one understands us - finance, biotech, pharmaceuticals... No one really gets those, either.
        tmn 7y ago
        Thank you
  - sillysaurusx 7y ago
    The idea that you can simply find a new job is itself a privileged point of view. Software engineers are special in the sense that they’re expensive to replace. It costs time and effort, both of which are much more scarce than money. Businesses are also usually expanding, so there’s no shortage of openings. This gives us more freedom by definition. However, some sectors of software engineering are much more strict. You wouldn’t take a “Just do it” attitude in aviation, for example. It’s easy to say “move to some other sector,” but eventually most devs try to build a career in one area.
    - Consultant32452 7y ago
      What do you think is being suggested here? All I read out of it is to dedicate some portion of your time at work towards self improvement. Why wouldn't you recommend that to someone in aviation?
      - vertex-four 7y ago
        Because that person’s work is probably scheduled and tracked to a higher degree than most software engineers, and if they’re seen to be slacking off they probably don’t get the excuse of “waiting for the test suite to finish”.
        Consultant32452 7y ago
        There's down time in virtually every job. If your employer discourages you from using down time to get better at your job, then get a new job. I did it even back in college working at a chain pizza store. I learned some management tasks, how to proof dough properly, etc. I'm sure there's some jobs out there where it's not an option, but I feel like you guys are really stretching it to find ways to say people are incapable of self improvement at work.
    - lugg 7y ago
      It's not a privileged point of view. You can find a new job. You might not like it. It might not be possible for everyone. But the idea that there are only jobs in tech is asinine. All qualified and experienced people are expensive to replace. That's not unique to software.
Ididntdothis 7y ago
I used to do that with success but lately my company has tightened up deadlines more and more so it’s hard to get everything done even within 40 weeks. Problem is that more things actually get done but this comes at the expense of burning out people because they don’t get to breathe anymore. I strongly believe that development is not just continuous production but more of a creative process where you need room for inspiration to do things that don’t directly benefit immediate business needs.
- goatinaboat 7y ago
  Problem is that more things actually get done but this comes at the expense of burning out people because they don’t get to breathe anymore If you sprint continuously you will collapse from exhaustion. The clues in the name! But I doubt the Agile crowd thought it through when choosing the name.

spurdoman77 7y ago

Well if your work contract allows "not asking for permissions", why not.

bamboozled 7y ago

Agree, do it until someone has a problem with it, and then find another way to do it, like finding a new job (if you have the luxury).

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

merouan 7y ago

I appreciate the sentiment and agree on an individual level but it’s not reproducible across the entire workforce. There is a certain degree of privilege required to even feel comfortable adopting this policy. As software engineers some of us have that privilege but few other workers do.

lugg 7y ago
Software engineers aren't special. Please stop treating them as some enlightened class. They're not. Software engineers face the same idiocy as everyone else. Every other industry has smart, creative, individuals willing to buck the system and try new things for an edge. If you truly believe people can't express a simple argument for trialing this sort of thing without losing their jobs maybe they should be looking for a new job because their current one sounds like a train wreck waiting to happen.
- amosquito 7y ago
  Mate you are mental. This simplified thought drives me nuts. Software Engineering has a massive IQ-based barrier to entry. Not only that, your advantages are in large part, from a purely technical perspective, are reflected in your ability to consume algorithms, techniques, and hold more variables in your head at a faster rate than others. It's an incredibly unique union of art and engineering, we are in demand as every industry needs it, and there is a genetic bottleneck. We suffer from massive privilege because even semi-technical people have no idea what the fuck we are doing, so oversight is limited at best. As someone who came from being a huge overachiever in a different industry, we are insanely privileged.
  - overkalix 7y ago
    This might be one of the most obnoxiously deluded things I've read all year.
    - tmn 7y ago
      Can you refute their points more directly?
      - hmschreck 7y ago
        First, there is no IQ barrier. I have several friends who, based on psychologist-administered IQ tests, are very, very close to average, who do well in the industry, usually better than me. They worked hard to get where they wanted to go. Sure, you probably can't do this work if you have an IQ under 85, but the same can be said for most any knowledge or even office job. It's not like we're unique in that regard. Second, a "genetic bottleneck"? That absolutely reeks of genetic elitism. It implies, rather heavily, that they are genetically superior to those who cannot (or just don't) do this work. The idea that we are special because no one understands us - finance, biotech, pharmaceuticals... No one really gets those, either.
        tmn 7y ago
        Thank you
- sillysaurusx 7y ago
  The idea that you can simply find a new job is itself a privileged point of view. Software engineers are special in the sense that they’re expensive to replace. It costs time and effort, both of which are much more scarce than money. Businesses are also usually expanding, so there’s no shortage of openings. This gives us more freedom by definition. However, some sectors of software engineering are much more strict. You wouldn’t take a “Just do it” attitude in aviation, for example. It’s easy to say “move to some other sector,” but eventually most devs try to build a career in one area.
  - Consultant32452 7y ago
    What do you think is being suggested here? All I read out of it is to dedicate some portion of your time at work towards self improvement. Why wouldn't you recommend that to someone in aviation?
    - vertex-four 7y ago
      Because that person’s work is probably scheduled and tracked to a higher degree than most software engineers, and if they’re seen to be slacking off they probably don’t get the excuse of “waiting for the test suite to finish”.
      - Consultant32452 7y ago
        There's down time in virtually every job. If your employer discourages you from using down time to get better at your job, then get a new job. I did it even back in college working at a chain pizza store. I learned some management tasks, how to proof dough properly, etc. I'm sure there's some jobs out there where it's not an option, but I feel like you guys are really stretching it to find ways to say people are incapable of self improvement at work.
  - lugg 7y ago
    It's not a privileged point of view. You can find a new job. You might not like it. It might not be possible for everyone. But the idea that there are only jobs in tech is asinine. All qualified and experienced people are expensive to replace. That's not unique to software.

Ididntdothis 7y ago

I used to do that with success but lately my company has tightened up deadlines more and more so it’s hard to get everything done even within 40 weeks. Problem is that more things actually get done but this comes at the expense of burning out people because they don’t get to breathe anymore. I strongly believe that development is not just continuous production but more of a creative process where you need room for inspiration to do things that don’t directly benefit immediate business needs.

goatinaboat 7y ago
Problem is that more things actually get done but this comes at the expense of burning out people because they don’t get to breathe anymore If you sprint continuously you will collapse from exhaustion. The clues in the name! But I doubt the Agile crowd thought it through when choosing the name.