5 ms·

I'd like to think that Adam Neumann will see some manner of ill effect for paying himself $1 billion of other people's money, while delivering negative value, b

I'd like to think that Adam Neumann will see some manner of ill effect for paying himself $1 billion of other people's money, while delivering negative value, but then reality comes crashing in to remind me that no, he won't. Consequences are for people who don't have a billion dollars.

mmazing 7y ago
"I need this billion dollars to avoid the consequences of taking this billion dollars."
the-dude 7y ago
"If you owe the bank $100 that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem." ( J. Paul Getty ) https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/j_paul_getty_129274 https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/j_paul_getty_129274
asdfman123 7y ago
I'm going to bet that he has several months of hard reflection about life and maybe write a book about it. Maybe he'll try to pull a Steve Jobs and try a few new companies to redeem himself. But you know, the next few years of his life are going to be mildly unpleasant, and we shouldn't forget about the emotional impact about that. Maybe he'll have a very public come-to-Jesus moment that will be cathartic for everyone involved, or maybe he'll disappear from public life forever with his vast WeWork wealth and live on some estate in an exotic locale. But either way, this failure isn't going to be easy for him. He's going to feel several emotions and not all of them will be pleasant.
- lordnacho 7y ago
  I think this is overly optimistic, what you're saying. What's he gonna lose? Friends who invested with him? He can buy new ones. Feel bad? You can literally hire a whole team of therapists for life. He can sit in his mansions and not be in the public eye forever, it's not like being in the public eye is some sort of requirement for living. Heck, he might even find a new following among people who want to emulate how he grabbed all that money.
  - asdfman123 7y ago
    I'm intentionally being tongue in cheek. Unless he's a total sociopath (which I don't think he is) he's probably going to suffer mild blowback, the kind of blowback and shitty feelings us mortals feel when we've been ousted from a job. But it's the kind of disappointment and anger that you get over in a few months. The only difference is he'll have a billion dollars and the ability to do whatever in life he wants. If you were in his shoes, would you go back and do things any differently?
    - JohnFen 7y ago
      > If you were in his shoes, would you go back and do things any differently? I wouldn't have been in his shoes, because I have a shred of decency.
    - lordnacho 7y ago
      > If you were in his shoes, would you go back and do things any differently? Maybe not hire a famous DJ for the announcement of layoffs.
      - asdfman123 7y ago
        Oh man, that's awful, have a link for that? If this were reddit I would link to /r/aboringdystopia.
        lordnacho 7y ago
        https://www.businessinsider.com/wework-ceo-adam-neumann-layoffs-firing-tequila-shots-run-dmc-2019-9?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/wework-ceo-adam-neumann-layo...
- _jal 7y ago
  Empathy is essential. And his con was a truly remarkable con during a run of remarkable cons, which attracts attention. But I have trouble sparing much sympathy for someone who has 10 digits to tide them over while they figure out what's next. If you're having trouble finding sympathetic targets in this fiasco, mayhap spare a thought to the several emotions employees whose options are underwater felt when they heard about their Superhero CEO's cash out.
- logfromblammo 7y ago
  Not everyone experiences conscience in the same way. He might not even have one to torment him in his moments of solitude. And when you say "mildly unpleasant", I can only assume you mean that for the rest of his life, his sole source of genuine unpleasantness will be from his own psyche. Because he'll be worth a billion dollars. And while money can't buy happiness, it can remove every last speck of annoyance, peeve, and inferior market option. This failure will be easier for him than for most other people who fail far less spectacularly. Even if a thousand people make it their life's mission to persecute him at every moment of the day, he still has approximately a billion dollars more than all of them put together. All he really has to worry about is avoiding Saudi-controlled buildings and territories for the rest of his life.
- ergothus 7y ago
  > But either way, this failure isn't going to be easy for him. He's going to feel several emotions and not all of them will be pleasant. Honest question: do you think it will be harder for him than for the rest of us that have to deal with failure and yet have to chase jobs and deal with the pressures that come from not being wealthy? Given the level of sociopathy likely required to get where he is at, I sincerely doubt it. I cant assume he feels as I would in thus situation because I literally couldn't GET into his situation.
- JohnFen 7y ago
  > I'm going to bet that he has several months of hard reflection about life I really, seriously doubt this. He's laughing all the way to the bank.
simonh 7y ago
The thing to remember is, this all happened in the open. The people paying him all this money knew exactly what they were doing, know exactly what he was doing and even encouraged him in doing it. I for one will not be shedding any tears for Softbank's losses. Neumann may be a bit of a jerk, if the stories about him are true, but good luck to the guy. It’s not as though he hurt anybody.
- JohnFen 7y ago
  > It’s not as though he hurt anybody. He didn't? He didn't hurt his employees, his investors, his contractors, and so forth? He didn't hurt the the tech space (WeWork is not a tech company, but they're widely perceived to be) by reducing even further what little trust it still has?
  - buboard 7y ago
    did they lay off people? I dont give a toss about investors who don't even know what they 're investing in.
    - AlexandrB 7y ago
      > did they lay people off? They will as soon as they have enough cash to pay severance: https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/03/wework-layoffs/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/03/wework-layoffs/
  - bilbo0s 7y ago
    I think what simonh is saying is that the employees knew what WeWork was. (They were the ones who created the spreadsheets and charts that outlined what was going on and presented it all to the investors in several separate acts of galling transparency.) The investors knew what WeWork was. All of that data was, again, transparent to the point of insult. Contractors may not have known, but certainly had access to the same information everyone else had and could have known had they actually reviewed the information. I think the guy is a piece of excrement, probably simonh thinks he's a piece of excrement as well. However, he did what he did out in the open. He just did it with jaw dropping temerity. No one participating in this whole affair can claim to have been victimized. He asked for all of them to consent to the insane, and they gave him what he wanted, hearty consent. It's a cautionary tale to me, of how greed can blind what are normally relatively intelligent people. Don't let greed blind you when evaluating startups.
goatinaboat 7y ago
Consequences are for people who don't have a billion dollars. This really hinges on how much he has upset MbS who will shortly have a trillion dollars if the Aramco IPO happens. He is a man with a ruthless reputation.
buboard 7y ago
I don't really understand the hate. He didn't steal it from an old lady behind her back. If that was the case, i can understand the feelings of empathy that it would evoke to people. But capitalizing on some uber-rich person's mistakes? Cry me a river, do you think Mr Softbank cares? Yeah he might drink one cocktail more, but who cares. What if Adam now becomes a great angel investor? Life is like that , all twists and turns , and the ToS says it's not guaranteed to be fair.
- AlexandrB 7y ago
  > He didn't steal it from an old lady behind her back. He tried to. Had the IPO gone through it would have fleeced billions from "institutional investors" (i.e. pensions and 401ks).
  - buboard 7y ago
    that's not the same, you have to consider the intermediaries who have a ton of responsibility for investing that money. They're not absolved from responsibility , and technically Neumann didn't lie, at all.
- bilbo0s 7y ago
  Not sure I would trust Adam as an angel, that could easily be the first step to an HN post about how your small startup exited at 93 million and you got nothing.
  - buboard 7y ago
    Well, at least his fundraising ability is unparalleled

mmazing 7y ago

"I need this billion dollars to avoid the consequences of taking this billion dollars."

the-dude 7y ago

"If you owe the bank $100 that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem." ( J. Paul Getty ) https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/j_paul_getty_129274 https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/j_paul_getty_129274

asdfman123 7y ago

I'm going to bet that he has several months of hard reflection about life and maybe write a book about it. Maybe he'll try to pull a Steve Jobs and try a few new companies to redeem himself. But you know, the next few years of his life are going to be mildly unpleasant, and we shouldn't forget about the emotional impact about that. Maybe he'll have a very public come-to-Jesus moment that will be cathartic for everyone involved, or maybe he'll disappear from public life forever with his vast WeWork wealth and live on some estate in an exotic locale. But either way, this failure isn't going to be easy for him. He's going to feel several emotions and not all of them will be pleasant.

lordnacho 7y ago
I think this is overly optimistic, what you're saying. What's he gonna lose? Friends who invested with him? He can buy new ones. Feel bad? You can literally hire a whole team of therapists for life. He can sit in his mansions and not be in the public eye forever, it's not like being in the public eye is some sort of requirement for living. Heck, he might even find a new following among people who want to emulate how he grabbed all that money.
- asdfman123 7y ago
  I'm intentionally being tongue in cheek. Unless he's a total sociopath (which I don't think he is) he's probably going to suffer mild blowback, the kind of blowback and shitty feelings us mortals feel when we've been ousted from a job. But it's the kind of disappointment and anger that you get over in a few months. The only difference is he'll have a billion dollars and the ability to do whatever in life he wants. If you were in his shoes, would you go back and do things any differently?
  - JohnFen 7y ago
    > If you were in his shoes, would you go back and do things any differently? I wouldn't have been in his shoes, because I have a shred of decency.
  - lordnacho 7y ago
    > If you were in his shoes, would you go back and do things any differently? Maybe not hire a famous DJ for the announcement of layoffs.
    - asdfman123 7y ago
      Oh man, that's awful, have a link for that? If this were reddit I would link to /r/aboringdystopia.
      - lordnacho 7y ago
        https://www.businessinsider.com/wework-ceo-adam-neumann-layoffs-firing-tequila-shots-run-dmc-2019-9?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/wework-ceo-adam-neumann-layo...
_jal 7y ago
Empathy is essential. And his con was a truly remarkable con during a run of remarkable cons, which attracts attention. But I have trouble sparing much sympathy for someone who has 10 digits to tide them over while they figure out what's next. If you're having trouble finding sympathetic targets in this fiasco, mayhap spare a thought to the several emotions employees whose options are underwater felt when they heard about their Superhero CEO's cash out.
logfromblammo 7y ago
Not everyone experiences conscience in the same way. He might not even have one to torment him in his moments of solitude. And when you say "mildly unpleasant", I can only assume you mean that for the rest of his life, his sole source of genuine unpleasantness will be from his own psyche. Because he'll be worth a billion dollars. And while money can't buy happiness, it can remove every last speck of annoyance, peeve, and inferior market option. This failure will be easier for him than for most other people who fail far less spectacularly. Even if a thousand people make it their life's mission to persecute him at every moment of the day, he still has approximately a billion dollars more than all of them put together. All he really has to worry about is avoiding Saudi-controlled buildings and territories for the rest of his life.
ergothus 7y ago
> But either way, this failure isn't going to be easy for him. He's going to feel several emotions and not all of them will be pleasant. Honest question: do you think it will be harder for him than for the rest of us that have to deal with failure and yet have to chase jobs and deal with the pressures that come from not being wealthy? Given the level of sociopathy likely required to get where he is at, I sincerely doubt it. I cant assume he feels as I would in thus situation because I literally couldn't GET into his situation.
JohnFen 7y ago
> I'm going to bet that he has several months of hard reflection about life I really, seriously doubt this. He's laughing all the way to the bank.

simonh 7y ago

The thing to remember is, this all happened in the open. The people paying him all this money knew exactly what they were doing, know exactly what he was doing and even encouraged him in doing it. I for one will not be shedding any tears for Softbank's losses. Neumann may be a bit of a jerk, if the stories about him are true, but good luck to the guy. It’s not as though he hurt anybody.

JohnFen 7y ago
> It’s not as though he hurt anybody. He didn't? He didn't hurt his employees, his investors, his contractors, and so forth? He didn't hurt the the tech space (WeWork is not a tech company, but they're widely perceived to be) by reducing even further what little trust it still has?
- buboard 7y ago
  did they lay off people? I dont give a toss about investors who don't even know what they 're investing in.
  - AlexandrB 7y ago
    > did they lay people off? They will as soon as they have enough cash to pay severance: https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/03/wework-layoffs/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/03/wework-layoffs/
- bilbo0s 7y ago
  I think what simonh is saying is that the employees knew what WeWork was. (They were the ones who created the spreadsheets and charts that outlined what was going on and presented it all to the investors in several separate acts of galling transparency.) The investors knew what WeWork was. All of that data was, again, transparent to the point of insult. Contractors may not have known, but certainly had access to the same information everyone else had and could have known had they actually reviewed the information. I think the guy is a piece of excrement, probably simonh thinks he's a piece of excrement as well. However, he did what he did out in the open. He just did it with jaw dropping temerity. No one participating in this whole affair can claim to have been victimized. He asked for all of them to consent to the insane, and they gave him what he wanted, hearty consent. It's a cautionary tale to me, of how greed can blind what are normally relatively intelligent people. Don't let greed blind you when evaluating startups.

goatinaboat 7y ago

Consequences are for people who don't have a billion dollars. This really hinges on how much he has upset MbS who will shortly have a trillion dollars if the Aramco IPO happens. He is a man with a ruthless reputation.

buboard 7y ago

I don't really understand the hate. He didn't steal it from an old lady behind her back. If that was the case, i can understand the feelings of empathy that it would evoke to people. But capitalizing on some uber-rich person's mistakes? Cry me a river, do you think Mr Softbank cares? Yeah he might drink one cocktail more, but who cares. What if Adam now becomes a great angel investor? Life is like that , all twists and turns , and the ToS says it's not guaranteed to be fair.

AlexandrB 7y ago
> He didn't steal it from an old lady behind her back. He tried to. Had the IPO gone through it would have fleeced billions from "institutional investors" (i.e. pensions and 401ks).
- buboard 7y ago
  that's not the same, you have to consider the intermediaries who have a ton of responsibility for investing that money. They're not absolved from responsibility , and technically Neumann didn't lie, at all.
bilbo0s 7y ago
Not sure I would trust Adam as an angel, that could easily be the first step to an HN post about how your small startup exited at 93 million and you got nothing.
- buboard 7y ago
  Well, at least his fundraising ability is unparalleled