5 ms·

GP in France is such a shitty job that people will go to great lengths to avoid that sector. French GPs earn ~25$ (base price) per patient, so they have to work

by rscho 7y ago

GP in France is such a shitty job that people will go to great lengths to avoid that sector. French GPs earn ~25$ (base price) per patient, so they have to work their ass off to have a decent lifestyle. The people here talking about golf courses and living the life just have no idea what they're talking about. It's VERY different from the issues of the american system and it's no wonder this is happening.

Ntrails 7y ago
> French GPs earn ~25$ (base price) per patient My GP sees ~10 people per hour, ~7 hours a day. That sounds like it would be worth 1750 per day. Assume 250 day working year for the ease of my mental maths, you've got ~450k revenue? Assuming tests/drugs etc are all extra, and that the surgery takes a sizable chunk - it still feels a decent distance from the breadline?
- rscho 7y ago
  Yes and no. You are forgetting unpaid (compulsory) on-call work and the necessity to pay administrative staff if you want to work full-time (the amount of papers is such that you can't do without). So far from the breadline on objective criteria, yes. Far enough that people wouldn't do anything to work in another specialty or do something where you have a better lifestyle, no. So GPs are usually not doing that by choice.
- 343254356 7y ago
  My GPs in France would see me for at least 30 minute each time, taking great care to check everything. It was quite a shock when I arrived in the UK and my GP would show me the door after 10 minutes. The downside is that the French GP will never take you on time for your appointment, but you will feel that you are taken care of, unlike in the UK system. I came once just for a quick health check before start a new sport, and I got an electro-cardiogram (to check for heart murmur, for free obviously), simply because I never had one in my life. They will often ask if your vaccinations are in order, how do you feel, things like that.
  - rscho 7y ago
    In a word, French GPs do their job.
- baud147258 7y ago
  I don't know how your GP work, but last time I went to see one it was closer to 2 or 3 patient per hour.
  - krageon 7y ago
    My GP takes 10 minutes per appointment and they sometimes take about 5 minutes after to enter information. Seeing 4-5 people per hour enter their office is a normal day. Edit: To be clear, this will afford them a salary that is a multiple of mine while still leaving room for about 3 assistants per GP (maybe more, given that assistant work is something that your insurance or you also end up paying for), rent for the office and equipment. They're certainly not underpaid. I don't think they are overpaid either, as the time taken to study before you can become one is very long and the work is probably quite unpleasant.
    - baud147258 7y ago
      I was more wondering about the quality of care.
rasz 7y ago
You are telling me random GP in France gets paid 2x more per patient than hourly wage of specialist on ER shift in central Europe, and this is somehow a slave wage now??
- rscho 7y ago
  No, I'm saying the compensation is not what people think it is. No golf, yachts, or anything of that kind. They just live an average life. However, ER shifts are ARE slave work. If you want GPs to do good work, you have to offer them some incentives. Incentives have been insufficient since a long time in France, and in Europe generally. Which is why we are short on GPs.
WhompingWindows 7y ago
GPS being underpaid is not that different in the USA. For instance, when Medicare got together to decide upon reimbursement rates for services, they gave ONE seat at the table to each group of doctors. So, the eye doctors got a seat, the foot doctors, the kidney, the liver...and ALL geriatrics got one seat. Think about that...a government program for healthcare for the elderly, and geriatrics is by far under-represented in setting reimbursement rates?!?! No wonder preventive care is extremely undervalued. Special interests dominate healthcare in the USA, and in other countries too, it seems.

by rscho 7y ago

Ntrails 7y ago

> French GPs earn ~25$ (base price) per patient My GP sees ~10 people per hour, ~7 hours a day. That sounds like it would be worth 1750 per day. Assume 250 day working year for the ease of my mental maths, you've got ~450k revenue? Assuming tests/drugs etc are all extra, and that the surgery takes a sizable chunk - it still feels a decent distance from the breadline?

rscho 7y ago
Yes and no. You are forgetting unpaid (compulsory) on-call work and the necessity to pay administrative staff if you want to work full-time (the amount of papers is such that you can't do without). So far from the breadline on objective criteria, yes. Far enough that people wouldn't do anything to work in another specialty or do something where you have a better lifestyle, no. So GPs are usually not doing that by choice.
343254356 7y ago
My GPs in France would see me for at least 30 minute each time, taking great care to check everything. It was quite a shock when I arrived in the UK and my GP would show me the door after 10 minutes. The downside is that the French GP will never take you on time for your appointment, but you will feel that you are taken care of, unlike in the UK system. I came once just for a quick health check before start a new sport, and I got an electro-cardiogram (to check for heart murmur, for free obviously), simply because I never had one in my life. They will often ask if your vaccinations are in order, how do you feel, things like that.
- rscho 7y ago
  In a word, French GPs do their job.
baud147258 7y ago
I don't know how your GP work, but last time I went to see one it was closer to 2 or 3 patient per hour.
- krageon 7y ago
  My GP takes 10 minutes per appointment and they sometimes take about 5 minutes after to enter information. Seeing 4-5 people per hour enter their office is a normal day. Edit: To be clear, this will afford them a salary that is a multiple of mine while still leaving room for about 3 assistants per GP (maybe more, given that assistant work is something that your insurance or you also end up paying for), rent for the office and equipment. They're certainly not underpaid. I don't think they are overpaid either, as the time taken to study before you can become one is very long and the work is probably quite unpleasant.
  - baud147258 7y ago
    I was more wondering about the quality of care.

rasz 7y ago

You are telling me random GP in France gets paid 2x more per patient than hourly wage of specialist on ER shift in central Europe, and this is somehow a slave wage now??

rscho 7y ago
No, I'm saying the compensation is not what people think it is. No golf, yachts, or anything of that kind. They just live an average life. However, ER shifts are ARE slave work. If you want GPs to do good work, you have to offer them some incentives. Incentives have been insufficient since a long time in France, and in Europe generally. Which is why we are short on GPs.

WhompingWindows 7y ago

GPS being underpaid is not that different in the USA. For instance, when Medicare got together to decide upon reimbursement rates for services, they gave ONE seat at the table to each group of doctors. So, the eye doctors got a seat, the foot doctors, the kidney, the liver...and ALL geriatrics got one seat. Think about that...a government program for healthcare for the elderly, and geriatrics is by far under-represented in setting reimbursement rates?!?! No wonder preventive care is extremely undervalued. Special interests dominate healthcare in the USA, and in other countries too, it seems.