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How can they justify operating in a country like China where their technology is used directly to target political activists? I see no possible excuse for this

How can they justify operating in a country like China where their technology is used directly to target political activists? I see no possible excuse for this. They are providing the most efficient and effective censorship and political targeting software ever created.

paul 20y ago
And you think that none of that is going on in the United States or other western countries? Should Google refuse to operate in the US because some of our laws are bad?
- gibsonf1 20y ago
  Um, when was the last time someone in the US was thrown in prison and/or executed for a political opinion? This happens in China right now, and there are already several cases where they used Google and Yahoo information to do it. Hence the very justified outcry against a US company directly aiding such an evil Government.
  - paul 20y ago
    You don't necessarily know what's going on in the US, for example: http://jwz.livejournal.com/745986.html http://jwz.livejournal.com/745986.html I'm not claiming that the US and China are the same, btw, just that it's not a matter of absolutes. In this country freedom is violated in the interests of Disney and such.
    - gibsonf1 20y ago
      Can you give one example of a person put in jail or executed for their political views in the US? One example of government forced censorship? The difference between the US govt. and the Chinese is more than black and white. You have the right to disagree with US policies - try complaining about Chinese politcal policies in China and see what happens. This issue has no gray. The case shown in your posted link is not an example of political persecution against the ISP. We have no information on the reason for the request by the FBI, so I won't speculate. Even with an FBI gag order, the person made the whole case public and went to court. Try that in China.
      - paul 20y ago
        The great thing about secrecy is that you never really know what's going on. Exactly who is in Guantanamo or the secret CIA prisons, and why? Do you honestly believe that prosecutions, FBI investigations, etc are never politically motivated?
        gibsonf1 20y ago
        I have 0 evidence of anyone jailed or killed for their political beliefs in this country. Do you have any?
        comatose_kid 20y ago
        Tell that to the people in this documentary (or their parents). Wonder if you'd still be saying that if it was your son in jail.... Take a look at: http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=310 http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=310 There's audio, and here's a direct link to the written transcript of the episode: http://www.thislife.org/extras/radio/310_transcript.pdf http://www.thislife.org/extras/radio/310_transcript.pdf An excerpt: "As best as we can tell, Badr Zaman Badr and his brother were imprisoned in Guantanamo for three years for telling a joke. Actually, for telling two jokes." I guess on second thought you are absolutely correct. These people weren't jailed in gitmo for their political beliefs after all - they just landed there because the US govt decided to listen to some random guy who was upset at being the target of their humor.
        gibsonf1 20y ago
        Your examples are foreigners in a time of war. The interview asks them why they were detained without any other information from other sources on their case. I think most people you ask in prison will say they are innocent. In any case, this is not an example of a US citizen being put in jail etc for political reasons. Also, the main point here is that even if the US were prosecuting people for their politics, which they are not, it would not make what Google is doing any better. What Google is doing is directly aiding in the political prosecution of people in China, and nothing makes this right. I think I've said now more than enough, and so I withdraw from this thread.

paul 20y ago

And you think that none of that is going on in the United States or other western countries? Should Google refuse to operate in the US because some of our laws are bad?

gibsonf1 20y ago
Um, when was the last time someone in the US was thrown in prison and/or executed for a political opinion? This happens in China right now, and there are already several cases where they used Google and Yahoo information to do it. Hence the very justified outcry against a US company directly aiding such an evil Government.
- paul 20y ago
  You don't necessarily know what's going on in the US, for example: http://jwz.livejournal.com/745986.html http://jwz.livejournal.com/745986.html I'm not claiming that the US and China are the same, btw, just that it's not a matter of absolutes. In this country freedom is violated in the interests of Disney and such.
  - gibsonf1 20y ago
    Can you give one example of a person put in jail or executed for their political views in the US? One example of government forced censorship? The difference between the US govt. and the Chinese is more than black and white. You have the right to disagree with US policies - try complaining about Chinese politcal policies in China and see what happens. This issue has no gray. The case shown in your posted link is not an example of political persecution against the ISP. We have no information on the reason for the request by the FBI, so I won't speculate. Even with an FBI gag order, the person made the whole case public and went to court. Try that in China.
    - paul 20y ago
      The great thing about secrecy is that you never really know what's going on. Exactly who is in Guantanamo or the secret CIA prisons, and why? Do you honestly believe that prosecutions, FBI investigations, etc are never politically motivated?
      - gibsonf1 20y ago
        I have 0 evidence of anyone jailed or killed for their political beliefs in this country. Do you have any?
        comatose_kid 20y ago
        Tell that to the people in this documentary (or their parents). Wonder if you'd still be saying that if it was your son in jail.... Take a look at: http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=310 http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=310 There's audio, and here's a direct link to the written transcript of the episode: http://www.thislife.org/extras/radio/310_transcript.pdf http://www.thislife.org/extras/radio/310_transcript.pdf An excerpt: "As best as we can tell, Badr Zaman Badr and his brother were imprisoned in Guantanamo for three years for telling a joke. Actually, for telling two jokes." I guess on second thought you are absolutely correct. These people weren't jailed in gitmo for their political beliefs after all - they just landed there because the US govt decided to listen to some random guy who was upset at being the target of their humor.
        gibsonf1 20y ago
        Your examples are foreigners in a time of war. The interview asks them why they were detained without any other information from other sources on their case. I think most people you ask in prison will say they are innocent. In any case, this is not an example of a US citizen being put in jail etc for political reasons. Also, the main point here is that even if the US were prosecuting people for their politics, which they are not, it would not make what Google is doing any better. What Google is doing is directly aiding in the political prosecution of people in China, and nothing makes this right. I think I've said now more than enough, and so I withdraw from this thread.