4 ms·

I initially wrote a comment about how the idea of troll farms and misinformation campaigns is very old. Mark Antony and Octavian engaged in such campaigns again

I initially wrote a comment about how the idea of troll farms and misinformation campaigns is very old. Mark Antony and Octavian engaged in such campaigns against one another after Caesar's death. I was essentially thinking that we've dealt with them, just at a smaller scale. Somehow I missed the irony that Octavian literally ended the Roman Republic. I suppose the downfall started with Caesar though. I really do wonder what can be done about the misinformation problem. It doesn't seem like educating the populace is a very effective solution, because even educated people fall for it.

raxxorrax 7y ago
Dismissing opinions because they are allegedly victims of trolls is a far greater problem in my perspective.
- madaxe_again 7y ago
  I visited an extraordinarily polluted steelworks city a few years ago. Even on a clear day, the air was orange, and as you entered the city you noticed the colour wash out of everything slightly, and the horizon over the estuary blurred out to a drab orange smear. I mention this, as when I mentioned it to the locals, none of them understood what I was talking about. You see, when your entire reality glows orange, that becomes normal to you. You cease to notice that everything is orange. You even vehemently disagree with anyone who’s just arrived and asks “why is everything around here orange?”. This is how propaganda works. Degree by degree everything turns orange, and unless you get out of it once in a while, you never notice.
  - raxxorrax 7y ago
    Agreed. We just would need to figure out who is standing in the clouds.
    - madaxe_again 7y ago
      We all are. Our entire human world comprises overlapping subjective realities built by group consensus. What is true and rational to me is anathema to another, and the inverse applies. From cradle to grave our realities are sculpted by our experiences and those surrounding us. Recognising this is the first step to understanding an awful lot of why people think and do what they do.
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    That is one reason why I'd like the media to recognize the part they themselves play in all this. Just by repeating the words of the demagogues for critical reasons they still give them another platform. For example: 'Today Trump repeated a debunked hoax as though it were true' is one thing, to say 'Today Trump said "The FBI didn’t take Hillary Clinton's email server. It was taken by somebody that, I guess, it’s CrowdStrike — that’s what I’ve heard.", which has been debunked long ago'. Is another. The second may be more sexy and may draw more eyeballs and therefore ad impressions but it still gives Trump a platform for his BS and plenty of people will believe the president over some reporter saying that this was already debunked as an afterthought.
    - shostack 7y ago
      I'm curious to see how deep the media rabbit hole goes with this though given what we're learning about Hannity's involvement.
vijayr02 7y ago
History buff input here: Arguably the downfall started with Sulla [0]: > Sulla's military coup—ironically enabled by Marius' military reforms that bound the army's loyalty with the general rather than to the Republic—permanently destabilized the Roman power structure. Later leaders like Julius Caesar would follow his precedent in attaining political power through force. A far cry from the traditional virtue embodied by Cincinnatus [1]: > He came from his plow to assume complete control over the state but, upon achieving a swift victory, relinquished his power and its perquisites and returned to his farm. His success and immediate resignation of his near-absolute authority with the end of this crisis (traditionally dated to 458 BC) has often been cited as an example of outstanding leadership, service to the greater good, civic virtue, humility, and modesty. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulla https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulla [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Quinctius_Cincinnatus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Quinctius_Cincinnatus
- Mirioron 7y ago
  Thank you for enlightening me further!

raxxorrax 7y ago

Dismissing opinions because they are allegedly victims of trolls is a far greater problem in my perspective.

madaxe_again 7y ago
I visited an extraordinarily polluted steelworks city a few years ago. Even on a clear day, the air was orange, and as you entered the city you noticed the colour wash out of everything slightly, and the horizon over the estuary blurred out to a drab orange smear. I mention this, as when I mentioned it to the locals, none of them understood what I was talking about. You see, when your entire reality glows orange, that becomes normal to you. You cease to notice that everything is orange. You even vehemently disagree with anyone who’s just arrived and asks “why is everything around here orange?”. This is how propaganda works. Degree by degree everything turns orange, and unless you get out of it once in a while, you never notice.
- raxxorrax 7y ago
  Agreed. We just would need to figure out who is standing in the clouds.
  - madaxe_again 7y ago
    We all are. Our entire human world comprises overlapping subjective realities built by group consensus. What is true and rational to me is anathema to another, and the inverse applies. From cradle to grave our realities are sculpted by our experiences and those surrounding us. Recognising this is the first step to understanding an awful lot of why people think and do what they do.
- jacquesm 7y ago
  That is one reason why I'd like the media to recognize the part they themselves play in all this. Just by repeating the words of the demagogues for critical reasons they still give them another platform. For example: 'Today Trump repeated a debunked hoax as though it were true' is one thing, to say 'Today Trump said "The FBI didn’t take Hillary Clinton's email server. It was taken by somebody that, I guess, it’s CrowdStrike — that’s what I’ve heard.", which has been debunked long ago'. Is another. The second may be more sexy and may draw more eyeballs and therefore ad impressions but it still gives Trump a platform for his BS and plenty of people will believe the president over some reporter saying that this was already debunked as an afterthought.
  - shostack 7y ago
    I'm curious to see how deep the media rabbit hole goes with this though given what we're learning about Hannity's involvement.

vijayr02 7y ago

History buff input here: Arguably the downfall started with Sulla [0]: > Sulla's military coup—ironically enabled by Marius' military reforms that bound the army's loyalty with the general rather than to the Republic—permanently destabilized the Roman power structure. Later leaders like Julius Caesar would follow his precedent in attaining political power through force. A far cry from the traditional virtue embodied by Cincinnatus [1]: > He came from his plow to assume complete control over the state but, upon achieving a swift victory, relinquished his power and its perquisites and returned to his farm. His success and immediate resignation of his near-absolute authority with the end of this crisis (traditionally dated to 458 BC) has often been cited as an example of outstanding leadership, service to the greater good, civic virtue, humility, and modesty. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulla https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulla [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Quinctius_Cincinnatus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Quinctius_Cincinnatus

Mirioron 7y ago
Thank you for enlightening me further!