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My train of thought went "hmm, I wonder if FreeBSD would be good to use in production for running some Docker containers" and I stumbled across this https://wik

My train of thought went "hmm, I wonder if FreeBSD would be good to use in production for running some Docker containers" and I stumbled across this https://wiki.freebsd.org/Docker https://wiki.freebsd.org/Docker > Docker's currently broken. that leads to this: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D21570 https://reviews.freebsd.org/D21570

kazen44 7y ago
to be fair, freebsd had something like docker for decades. Jails have existed for a long time and are easy to use.
- MuffinFlavored 7y ago
  This is a great point. I know https://wiki.freebsd.org/bhyve https://wiki.freebsd.org/bhyve is massively popular/successful too.
  - pm7 7y ago
    Really? I used bvyhe on FreeNAS and it was awful comparing to KVM or ESXi.
- mikece 7y ago
  Jails are “similar” to Docker but they aren’t quite the same: https://blog.jessfraz.com/post/containers-zones-jails-vms/ https://blog.jessfraz.com/post/containers-zones-jails-vms/
  - paulddraper 7y ago
    That link has near zero substance. Jails and Docker are different, but they are both used for process isolation.
  - rhizome 7y ago
    Clear as mud. I know the author is a known person, but that style of writing is pretty bad for this topic.
gerbilly 7y ago
Docker is mainly a Linux LXC thing. Why would you want to run that on FreeBSD?
- pbalau 7y ago
  Because I can develop my stuff on a mac, then run it on my FBSD fleet?
  - takeda 7y ago
    FreeBSD has incompatible executable files with Mac.
    - pbalau 7y ago
      And? Mac and Linus systems have the same issues, yet my laptop is a mac and most of my docker hosts are linux.
    - MuffinFlavored 7y ago
      He/she is talking about being able to deploy a `Dockerfile` or use `docker-compose` / `docker-machine` on FreeBSD. It's very common in backend development to run a Dockerized version of Redis/Postgres for local testing/development. A lot of developers develop Go/Python/Rust/node.js/etc. on a Mac, then deploy it to nix. They would need to deploy the same Docker containers built locally (or in CI/CD) to BSD, which seems unsupported given the comments.
      - takeda 7y ago
        I see, but I thought the selling point of docker was reproducibility, which was thanks to the image. The Dockerfile is not truly reproducible, and the image once created it is typically created with linux binary. I think docker is a glorified zip file, but if that would help popularize FreeBSD more I wouldn't mind that feature. I guess linux compatibility layer could help here as well.
        7y ago
jsiepkes 7y ago
Docker became popular over FreeBSD jails the same way MySQL became popular over PostgreSQL in the 2005-ish. Not based on technical merit but because of ease of use. In case of MySQL it was a Windows installer which made for a low barrier of entry. However MySQL didn't do ACID transactions, views, etc. at that time, all things PostgreSQL had. Similarly Docker was easy to use with images but security was a mess. The first couple of years Docker stance was actually that their container wasn't to be considered a security boundary and being able to access the host system "wasn't a bug". This in total contrast to FreeBSD jails which were always regarded as a hard boundary. Docker in FreeBSD is not as simple as you might think. FreeBSD has a Linux ABI compatibility layer in order to be able to run Linux binaties (just like WINE is a Windows ABI compatibility layer). Docker itself, the CLI application, the API, etc. is probably the easiest part.
- jdsully 7y ago
  Back then I chose MySQL because of php-myAdmin. That and the fact there were so many more tutorials for it were the main drivers of the decisions. Proper foreign keys and transactions were nice, but who knows if this app would go anywhere anyways (it didn't).
- MuffinFlavored 7y ago
  Is there a Docker equivalent for FreeBSD? Jails are only part of the equation. I can orchestrate networking/volumes all while accessing a breadth of remote images through Docker/docker-compose
  - throwaway5d097 7y ago
    Maybe combining jails with something like Ansible for building images and automating configuration would be close to good enough? Though more boilerplate? I wonder
    - MuffinFlavored 7y ago
      https://github.com/swills/docker-machine-driver-bhyve https://github.com/swills/docker-machine-driver-bhyve

kazen44 7y ago

to be fair, freebsd had something like docker for decades. Jails have existed for a long time and are easy to use.

MuffinFlavored 7y ago
This is a great point. I know https://wiki.freebsd.org/bhyve https://wiki.freebsd.org/bhyve is massively popular/successful too.
- pm7 7y ago
  Really? I used bvyhe on FreeNAS and it was awful comparing to KVM or ESXi.
mikece 7y ago
Jails are “similar” to Docker but they aren’t quite the same: https://blog.jessfraz.com/post/containers-zones-jails-vms/ https://blog.jessfraz.com/post/containers-zones-jails-vms/
- paulddraper 7y ago
  That link has near zero substance. Jails and Docker are different, but they are both used for process isolation.
- rhizome 7y ago
  Clear as mud. I know the author is a known person, but that style of writing is pretty bad for this topic.

gerbilly 7y ago

Docker is mainly a Linux LXC thing. Why would you want to run that on FreeBSD?

pbalau 7y ago
Because I can develop my stuff on a mac, then run it on my FBSD fleet?
- takeda 7y ago
  FreeBSD has incompatible executable files with Mac.
  - pbalau 7y ago
    And? Mac and Linus systems have the same issues, yet my laptop is a mac and most of my docker hosts are linux.
  - MuffinFlavored 7y ago
    He/she is talking about being able to deploy a `Dockerfile` or use `docker-compose` / `docker-machine` on FreeBSD. It's very common in backend development to run a Dockerized version of Redis/Postgres for local testing/development. A lot of developers develop Go/Python/Rust/node.js/etc. on a Mac, then deploy it to nix. They would need to deploy the same Docker containers built locally (or in CI/CD) to BSD, which seems unsupported given the comments.
    - takeda 7y ago
      I see, but I thought the selling point of docker was reproducibility, which was thanks to the image. The Dockerfile is not truly reproducible, and the image once created it is typically created with linux binary. I think docker is a glorified zip file, but if that would help popularize FreeBSD more I wouldn't mind that feature. I guess linux compatibility layer could help here as well.
      - 7y ago

jsiepkes 7y ago

Docker became popular over FreeBSD jails the same way MySQL became popular over PostgreSQL in the 2005-ish. Not based on technical merit but because of ease of use. In case of MySQL it was a Windows installer which made for a low barrier of entry. However MySQL didn't do ACID transactions, views, etc. at that time, all things PostgreSQL had. Similarly Docker was easy to use with images but security was a mess. The first couple of years Docker stance was actually that their container wasn't to be considered a security boundary and being able to access the host system "wasn't a bug". This in total contrast to FreeBSD jails which were always regarded as a hard boundary. Docker in FreeBSD is not as simple as you might think. FreeBSD has a Linux ABI compatibility layer in order to be able to run Linux binaties (just like WINE is a Windows ABI compatibility layer). Docker itself, the CLI application, the API, etc. is probably the easiest part.

jdsully 7y ago
Back then I chose MySQL because of php-myAdmin. That and the fact there were so many more tutorials for it were the main drivers of the decisions. Proper foreign keys and transactions were nice, but who knows if this app would go anywhere anyways (it didn't).
MuffinFlavored 7y ago
Is there a Docker equivalent for FreeBSD? Jails are only part of the equation. I can orchestrate networking/volumes all while accessing a breadth of remote images through Docker/docker-compose
- throwaway5d097 7y ago
  Maybe combining jails with something like Ansible for building images and automating configuration would be close to good enough? Though more boilerplate? I wonder
  - MuffinFlavored 7y ago
    https://github.com/swills/docker-machine-driver-bhyve https://github.com/swills/docker-machine-driver-bhyve