7 ms·

I wonder what it takes to have more than 16GB of RAM in these "for developers" laptops. I really like the form factor and the fact that it works well with Linu

by mh8h 7y ago

I wonder what it takes to have more than 16GB of RAM in these "for developers" laptops. I really like the form factor and the fact that it works well with Linux out of the box, but I am sure I will regret buying a laptop with 16GB of soldered memory in 2019.

anderber 7y ago
I agree, which is why I went with a System76 laptop. So far it's been great and I've been enjoying the 32GB of RAM.
bachmeier 7y ago
I'd like developer laptops to max out at 2 GB of RAM and have really slow single-core processors. Then I wouldn't be subjected to software written for machines with 64 GB of RAM and the latest high-end Intel processor.
- drewg123 7y ago
  I'm with you, but I'd rather they have 64 or 128 super, super slow cores. That way they'd make better use of threads, and hopefully uncover and fix more race-conditions and other concurrency bugs during development.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
  I was about to reply the same. It's 2019 and many applications still take forever to start and are unresponsive as hell. How did we take orders of magnitude improvement in every metric and make it just as bad? The magic of Software Engineering I guess.
  - kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
    These machines are literally supercomputers but they still struggle to perform common basic operations without delay even though much slower computers could manage a tolerable UX 20 years ago.
  - chooseaname 7y ago
    How? By focusing on developer productivity and not the consumer. We can't get any more anti-consumer in the the tech industry if we tried at this point.
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  This is a silly attitude - it can take 8 GB of RAM to compile an application, which then runs happily in 2 GB.
  - hrjro9jjr 7y ago
    Company code should be shipped to source control, and all test, buil/compilation handled by automated process that can be reviewed by all. IMO it doesn’t matter if you’re developing local desktop apps or cloud apps, anything that’s intended for broad distribution. What’s the point of one extra test run and compilation in a local fiefdom of personal customization? It’s even sillier for containerized apps where desktop metrics are way different than cloud providers.
    - chrisseaton 7y ago
      You think we should push our code every single time we want to compile our code, and then download the binary? Never run any tests locally? Going to be tricky to develop on a flight then, isn't it?
  - asdff 7y ago
    clusters are cheap and apple charges $200 for 8gb of RAM
    - atomicity 7y ago
      By using a remote machine, you gain in upfront cost but you lose dev time due to poor tooling. It's possible to use X11, SSH, SSHFS, or Kubernetes but it never truly replaces the flexibility of developing locally with an IDE. Kubernetes tooling _might_ get there in the future though. If you have a team at work dedicated to the tooling problem, remote dev can become really nice though.
- psychometry 7y ago
  Guessing you've never coded with a robust IDE before...
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    What exactly does “robust” mean in this context? It’s not a given that a full-featured IDE needs to eat all your system RAM.
    - psychometry 7y ago
      Robust as in its set of features is on the level of, e.g., PyCharm and not RStudio.
jlgaddis 7y ago
It's absurd to me that this "Developer Edition" laptop can be purchased with, at most, half of the 32 GB of RAM that my 6.5 year old ThinkPad has had since day one.
- ColanR 7y ago
  Which thinkpad is that?
  - jlgaddis 7y ago
    W530
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- h1d 7y ago
  Why do you even need that much? Seems a niche demand when 8GB should just do fine for most. I've been developing on 8GB Mac for years with no problem. Doubt Linux needs more to do the same.
  - rocky1138 7y ago
    8GB isn't really enough when you're running a few docker containers like Elastic Search and the like.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
    You're just not over-engineering your software hard enough.
  - pottertheotter 7y ago
    I have 8GB on my Mac and I'm constantly slowed down by lack of RAM. Built a Hackintosh with 32GB and it's a world of difference. I don't know how people survive with such little RAM.
    - 7y ago
DennisP 7y ago
Not to mention a decent-size screen.
ahnick 7y ago
Came here to say the same thing. I have an "old" T480 with 32GB of RAM. There is no way I'm buying a new laptop with half the RAM. I just don't get why the memory needle is not moving with manufacturers.
CoolGuySteve 7y ago
You can get 32GB of RAM in a 15" form factor, just not in 13". This is due to the well known engineering limitation that links LCD size to the density of RAM modules that can be supported by a motherboard.
- enriquto 7y ago
  can you explain that engineering limitation? I never heard about that.
  - mattkrause 7y ago
    Semi- Autonomous Remote Cache Assignment Synchronization Monitoring
nerdponx 7y ago
Swappable RAM and storage is a feature. I don't care if it adds 2 oz and makes the laptop thicker (the X220 was both thin an light enough for me). Bring them back, at least on "developer" machines.
dajohnson89 7y ago
this is a non-starter for me. i wont buy a machine with less than 32g of memory, period.
nsajko 7y ago
Wouldn't additional RAM chips consume appreciably more power? That is definitely relevant for the laptop form factor. Also, even among software engineers, the need for more than 16 GB RAM is presumably rare. Would you care to mention what do you need it for?
- notzuck 7y ago
  VM with SAP, VM with SOLR, VM with application server. Massive Java codebase indexing in an IDE, Chrome and multiple other applications. This is a standard setup that I've seen hundreds and hundreds of developers use on large enterprise / consulting and systems implementation projects. It's still very common for many many developers to live in world that doesn't solely consist of a text editor with JS.
akvadrako 7y ago
It's because of missing LPDDR4 support. In laptop CPUs it's only available on Ice Lake, which just started shipping. AMD doesn't support it at all.
- NotSammyHagar 7y ago
  there are several ice lake 10th gen laptops, but none of the linux ones i found have 32gig. why?

by mh8h 7y ago

anderber 7y ago

I agree, which is why I went with a System76 laptop. So far it's been great and I've been enjoying the 32GB of RAM.

bachmeier 7y ago

I'd like developer laptops to max out at 2 GB of RAM and have really slow single-core processors. Then I wouldn't be subjected to software written for machines with 64 GB of RAM and the latest high-end Intel processor.

drewg123 7y ago
I'm with you, but I'd rather they have 64 or 128 super, super slow cores. That way they'd make better use of threads, and hopefully uncover and fix more race-conditions and other concurrency bugs during development.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
I was about to reply the same. It's 2019 and many applications still take forever to start and are unresponsive as hell. How did we take orders of magnitude improvement in every metric and make it just as bad? The magic of Software Engineering I guess.
- kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
  These machines are literally supercomputers but they still struggle to perform common basic operations without delay even though much slower computers could manage a tolerable UX 20 years ago.
- chooseaname 7y ago
  How? By focusing on developer productivity and not the consumer. We can't get any more anti-consumer in the the tech industry if we tried at this point.
chrisseaton 7y ago
This is a silly attitude - it can take 8 GB of RAM to compile an application, which then runs happily in 2 GB.
- hrjro9jjr 7y ago
  Company code should be shipped to source control, and all test, buil/compilation handled by automated process that can be reviewed by all. IMO it doesn’t matter if you’re developing local desktop apps or cloud apps, anything that’s intended for broad distribution. What’s the point of one extra test run and compilation in a local fiefdom of personal customization? It’s even sillier for containerized apps where desktop metrics are way different than cloud providers.
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    You think we should push our code every single time we want to compile our code, and then download the binary? Never run any tests locally? Going to be tricky to develop on a flight then, isn't it?
- asdff 7y ago
  clusters are cheap and apple charges $200 for 8gb of RAM
  - atomicity 7y ago
    By using a remote machine, you gain in upfront cost but you lose dev time due to poor tooling. It's possible to use X11, SSH, SSHFS, or Kubernetes but it never truly replaces the flexibility of developing locally with an IDE. Kubernetes tooling _might_ get there in the future though. If you have a team at work dedicated to the tooling problem, remote dev can become really nice though.
psychometry 7y ago
Guessing you've never coded with a robust IDE before...
- saagarjha 7y ago
  What exactly does “robust” mean in this context? It’s not a given that a full-featured IDE needs to eat all your system RAM.
  - psychometry 7y ago
    Robust as in its set of features is on the level of, e.g., PyCharm and not RStudio.

jlgaddis 7y ago

It's absurd to me that this "Developer Edition" laptop can be purchased with, at most, half of the 32 GB of RAM that my 6.5 year old ThinkPad has had since day one.

ColanR 7y ago
Which thinkpad is that?
- jlgaddis 7y ago
  W530
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
h1d 7y ago
Why do you even need that much? Seems a niche demand when 8GB should just do fine for most. I've been developing on 8GB Mac for years with no problem. Doubt Linux needs more to do the same.
- rocky1138 7y ago
  8GB isn't really enough when you're running a few docker containers like Elastic Search and the like.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
  You're just not over-engineering your software hard enough.
- pottertheotter 7y ago
  I have 8GB on my Mac and I'm constantly slowed down by lack of RAM. Built a Hackintosh with 32GB and it's a world of difference. I don't know how people survive with such little RAM.
  - 7y ago

DennisP 7y ago

Not to mention a decent-size screen.

ahnick 7y ago

Came here to say the same thing. I have an "old" T480 with 32GB of RAM. There is no way I'm buying a new laptop with half the RAM. I just don't get why the memory needle is not moving with manufacturers.

CoolGuySteve 7y ago

You can get 32GB of RAM in a 15" form factor, just not in 13". This is due to the well known engineering limitation that links LCD size to the density of RAM modules that can be supported by a motherboard.

enriquto 7y ago
can you explain that engineering limitation? I never heard about that.
- mattkrause 7y ago
  Semi- Autonomous Remote Cache Assignment Synchronization Monitoring

nerdponx 7y ago

Swappable RAM and storage is a feature. I don't care if it adds 2 oz and makes the laptop thicker (the X220 was both thin an light enough for me). Bring them back, at least on "developer" machines.

dajohnson89 7y ago

this is a non-starter for me. i wont buy a machine with less than 32g of memory, period.

nsajko 7y ago

Wouldn't additional RAM chips consume appreciably more power? That is definitely relevant for the laptop form factor. Also, even among software engineers, the need for more than 16 GB RAM is presumably rare. Would you care to mention what do you need it for?

notzuck 7y ago
VM with SAP, VM with SOLR, VM with application server. Massive Java codebase indexing in an IDE, Chrome and multiple other applications. This is a standard setup that I've seen hundreds and hundreds of developers use on large enterprise / consulting and systems implementation projects. It's still very common for many many developers to live in world that doesn't solely consist of a text editor with JS.

akvadrako 7y ago

It's because of missing LPDDR4 support. In laptop CPUs it's only available on Ice Lake, which just started shipping. AMD doesn't support it at all.

NotSammyHagar 7y ago
there are several ice lake 10th gen laptops, but none of the linux ones i found have 32gig. why?