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Apple TV, Apple TV, Apple TV, and Apple TV+
- shadowmore 7y agoSounds about par for the course for post-Jobs Apple.
- chooseaname 7y agoIt's been 8 years. People can't honestly still be holding on to this, can they?
- theklr 7y agoPeople love their idols. Elvis is only fading because his base is.
- briandear 7y agoElvis isn’t really fading; he is the #2 dead artist by annual revenue. Michael Jackson is number 1 — he had about 2 billion streams last year.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- kkarakk 7y agoBill gates retired 19 years ago(2000s) and his name is still synonymous with windows due to choices he made. People still ask Wozniak about his opinions on devices(iphones etc) that he had absolutely no input on and they do tinge people's perceptions of those devices Jobs penchant for secrecy persists to this day at Apple, the personalities of the people who were in charge/first affect organizations more than you'd think
- buildbuildbuild 7y agoApple TV+ has its flaws. So did Netflix on day one.
- sb057 7y agoBut this isn't a critique of Apple TV; this is a critique of Apple TV.
- bch 7y agoBuffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo ...[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffal...
- HeWhoLurksLate 7y agoRight. Let me see if I got this right- Apple TV is on first, Apple TV is on second, Apple TV is on third, and AppleTV+ is pitching.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- jamesmackennon 7y agoApple TV has its flaws. But so did Apple TV on day one.
- thunderbong 7y agoPlease don't mind it but you username kind of matches the original post!
- thomasedwards 7y agoI know you’re being downvoted because your comment is based on the content not the name, but on the name thing, Netflix actually tried to spin their DVD business to be called ‘Qwikster’, but I think people got angry for some reason(?) so they kept the Netflix name for both. So that was maybe a bit confusing for a while.
- Mindwipe 7y agoNetflix also existed in a radically different market and set of competitors with wildly different consumer expectations. This is a weird comparison. Apple TV+ isn't competing with Netflix day one, it's competing with Netflix today.
- Austin_Conlon 7y agoApple needs to have the marketing people who come up with California-based macOS names sort this out. If they solved the cat naming crisis then surely they can clean up this mess.
- friendlybus 7y agoThe repetition is the marketing.
- Austin_Conlon 7y agohttps://youtu.be/Pdro3BOb6w0?t=10 https://youtu.be/Pdro3BOb6w0?t=10
- D-Coder 7y agoThey solved the cat-naming crisis? I missed that memo!
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- bhj 7y ago"Solved" by ending it after 9 releases, appropriately
- sah2ed 7y agoThe first 9 release names of OSX (v10.0 - v10.8) were based on cat names after which they switched to Mavericks for v10.10: - Cheetah - Puma - Jaguar - Panther - Tiger - Leopard - Snow Leopard - Lion - Mountain Lion - Mavericks
- iknowalot 7y agoI have a feeling the same idiots that decided on "XS Max" for the iphone, came up with this naming scheme. If you are at the point that your company is adding MAX to the end of its product names, your company is about to jump the shark (see Boeing).
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- jasoneckert 7y agoI'm never one to jump on the new product bandwagon. I think I'll wait until the Apple TV++ comes out. Plus, it'll probably be object-oriented.
- etxm 7y agoYou’re gonna love the Apple TV#
- adrianmonk 7y agoIt's also possible the next models will be Apple TVe, Apple TVc, and Apple TVgs.
- partomniscient 7y agoNot to be confused with the also upcoming Apple iTV.
- tonyedgecombe 7y agoI seem to remember it was going to be called this originally but it was a problem because the main commercial broadcaster in the UK is called ITV.
- throwaway9980 7y agoI’m hoping for Objective Apple TV. Apple TV# would be... unexpected.
- journalctl 7y agoWhat about ++Apple TV?
- Austin_Conlon 7y agoIt'll be protocol-oriented.
- Exuma 7y agoI prefer ++Apple TV
- mc3 7y agoGlad he cleared that one up.
- tiredwired 7y agoReminds me of the time I tried to decide which Microsoft Surface I should buy.
- jvm_ 7y agoOr when you want to buy a used one and want to check the value.
- zedgerman 7y agoMaybe it’s still a hobby 10 years later?
- andrewstuart 7y agoRemember when .NET came out? Everything was .NET. As a result, no-one really had any idea what .NET actually was. Eventually we figured out it was "Microsoft's Java". Windows also went through a phase in which seemingly everything was Windows.
- mc3 7y agoThat's not even the best example. .NET Core vs. .NET Standard was a wtf?
- Someone1234 7y agoThat's not really an example of what they're bringing up. Microsoft has the .Net ecosystem (as the above poster described it "Microsoft's Java," which it largely is). However for a period Microsoft was naming other products and services ".Net" that were completely unrelated. Specifically this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_.NET_strategy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_.NET_strategy Both .Net Core and .Net Standard are part of the .Net ecosystem for real, making them not an example of the marketing phenomenon being discussed here. Which isn't to say the names aren't confusing, just that it isn't in the same pattern. PS - .Net Framework: Legacy/Classic .Net. Windows Only. Started in 2002. 4.8 is the final major version. .Net Core: Light weight/cross platform "reboot" of .Net Framework. Started in 2016. .Net Standard: Minimum subset of both that allows libraries to be cross-compatible with .Net Framework and .Net Core. Also assures they lack Windows specific dependencies. Allowing a bridge to migrate to .Net Core.
- snuxoll 7y agoI never found it confusing, but I also remember the hell of PCL’s so .Net Standard was a breath of sanity.
- code_sloth 7y ago> .NET Core vs. .NET Standard was a wtf? At least they named it core and standard so you know which mess you're referring to. With Apple TV you have to make up your own qualifiers. Apple's marketing team seems to failing at their jobs right now. They had iPhone had X/Xr/Xs/Xs Max at some point, and I never figure out which was which. The most recent 11/11 pro/11 pro max makes a lot more sense, but it sounds dated.
- coudron 7y agoWWDC 2020: "We're excited to announce Apple TVs+"
- dceddia 7y agoSoon to be joined by Apple TVs+ Pro! * * one or more pros not included
- pca184 7y agoJinx! :)
- pca184 7y ago"and the magical Apple TVs+ Pro"
- peterburkimsher 7y agoFollowed by the Apple TV SE+
- Apocryphon 7y agoThis article is about the media player. For the streaming service, see Apple TV+. For the media player app from Apple, see Apple TV (software). For other uses, see Apple TV (disambiguation).
- whoopdedo 7y ago"There are only two hard problems in Computer Science: cache invalidation and naming things." (Phil Karlton) Amusing that along with this, there are two articles about caches on the front page of HN right now.
- vvanders 7y agoThere's also the unspoken third one which is off by one errors.
- yunruse 7y agoLike they said, the two hard problems.
- jeegsy 7y agoISWYDT
- andrewstuart 7y agoObiwan errors are greatly reduced in more modern language that have newer mechanisms for looping over data.
- stevelosh 7y agoAnd the fourth: scope creep.
- egdod 7y agoBut they can both be solved by adding another layer of indirection.
- maz1b 7y agoFor a company with a relatively smaller product line, Apple sure is not the best at naming things. How does something like this happen?
- reaperducer 7y agoMaybe someone at Apple got the Sony WH-1000XM3 Noise Cancelling Headphones instead of the MDR-ZX110NC Noise Cancelling Headphones for Christmas, and this is some kind of a backlash into over-simplification.
- caublestone 7y agoWhat’s pretty brilliant is that you could remove the word Apple and it would look exactly like what Tv is. Essentially Apple has replaced TV with AppleTV. And with that Apple is trying to become a monopoly on what was formally a relatively distributed system.
- yaur 7y agoMissing from this article is "Channels" which is a third-party app that runs on Apple TV that lets you stream and record from a local network tuner.
- snarkypixel 7y agoHere's my take on it: I bought an Apple TV and It Just Works. Movies, subtitle, adding a few key apps like Netflix and Youtube. It's the same name because it's the same whole experience.
- sxcurry 7y agoExactly. Now I feel a bit bad because I'm not confused at all - it just all works.
- kkarakk 7y agoIt all works juuuuust until it doesn't and you have to upgrade to the next tier. I assume the experience will be like the one i had with netflix, where once i had a 4k tv i realized i HAD to upgrade my account and internet bandwidth coz otherwise stuff would look blurry and buffer(for kids who can't tell why stuff doesn't look as good as on the neighbors device) Obviously not a problem for people who can just buy all the extras but if you're budgeting then it does get quite nasty and lead you to the media server route
- jacquesl 7y agoApple TV is also a dumpster fire.
- Paraesthetic 7y agoPretty straight forward. Best line of the whole article
- netfl0 7y agoThis made my day.
- jfroma 7y agoI find naming and details as confusing with Amazon Prime, Amazon Video and FireTV. Maybe it is not as problematic when you are in the US, but in my country Amazon Prime works in all devices (android, ios, pc, etc) except in the FireTV, other services like netflix, spotify and youtube works very well on FireTV. Note that this is clearly stated in the documentation and faqs, it is a product targeted to a few countries only.
- Razengan 7y agoI love the occasional topic like this that makes HN let out its inner Reddit.
- SiVal 7y agoNext up is Apple TVX. "It's called 'tee-five-ten'. Yes, that's what it's called. Say it that way. Because we said so."
- kissgyorgy 7y agoNaming is hard ️
- qzervaas 7y agoOne thing to note (not that it necessarily clears things up all that much): In the March 2019 Apple TV+ announcement event, Apple renamed the non-4K Apple TV hardware from "Apple TV" to "Apple TV HD". So the hardware options are now "Apple TV HD" and "Apple TV 4K".
- fitzroy 7y ago2021: Apple TV+ Pro
- Papirola 7y ago2022: Apple TV#
- Papirola 7y agoI thought it was just me :/
- dayaz36 7y agoSteve Jobs is rolling in his grave right now. Tim Cook needs to be replaced.
- thomasedwards 7y agoAh of course. Nothing like this happened when Jobs was around ;) (Apart from the iPod, which probably is still more confusing than the iPad names. At one point it was so messed up that in November 2004 they had to rename the “iPod Photo“ to the “iPod photo”.)
- randomstring 7y agoWhat? No mention of the Apple TV remote, the Apple TV Siri remote, the Apple TV remote app, or the iOS Apple TV remote app shortcut feature on iOS? The physical Apple remotes are so terrible, I've stopped using Apple TV (all of them). The Apple remote app is better, but is useless for when you need to hit pause, as your phone has gone to sleep.
- js2 7y agoThe awful remote is tolerable with one of these cases: https://www.amazon.com/Fintie-Protective-Case-Apple-Remote/dp/B01K6LO5SK https://www.amazon.com/Fintie-Protective-Case-Apple-Remote/d...
- tonyedgecombe 7y agoI'm not sure it solves the main problem which is scrolling on the remote is almost unusable. They would have been better sticking with the remote that came with the early versions.
- 2rsf 7y agowhat do you mean by scrolling being unusable ? it's not a mouse wheel with steady scroll rate but something similar to flicking a finger. It's not great for long lists but it's far from being terrible, also part of the problem lies on the UI design for example having too long lists
- tonyedgecombe 7y agoIt is terrible, it regularly fails to scroll or scrolls too far.
- 2rsf 7y agocannot reproduce on my machine
- tolmasky 7y agoThe best is that you can buy the Apple TV in two sizes! 32 GB and 64 GB. Why you ask? Can the bigger one store more stuff? No, everything’s in the cloud! So what’s it for exactly? Who knows! But it’ll cost you an extra $20 and won’t even come in a different color like the “Pro” keyboards and mice. For a fun exercise go ask an Apple store employee this.
- jc__denton 7y agoAdditional app storage and the ability to store/download media in apps that support it.
- dvdbloc 7y agoHow many apps will I have to install to run out of space on my 32GB Apple TV? Curious how many people this has actually happened to...
- tolmasky 7y agoFrom my (admittedly now hazy) understanding, everything in Apple TV land is supposed to be purgeable. So nothing should stop working on a 32 GB Apple TV unless it for whatever reason needs 64 GB of data on disk. This will of course mean that the 64 GB model is faster in caching scenarios, but it’s IMO an unnecessarily complex decision for an already expensive product in the space ($179 for 32GB!)
- kkarakk 7y ago
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- js2 7y agoAlso, the Apple TV Movies app has a wish list which doesn't sync with anything. And, sometimes when you search for a movie using Siri on Apple TV it opens in Movies where you can add it to your wish list, but sometimes it opens in the TV app where you can't. To avoid this, you have to go into Movies, then use Search, then use your voice to fill in the title, then it will come up in Movies where you can add it to the wish list. And don't even get me started on having different Apple IDs that you need to use for iCloud and iTunes because btw, you can't merge Apple IDs. And if one of your Apple IDs is from the .mac/.me era, you can't change its primary email address. But other than that it's great.
- kccqzy 7y agoAt least when Apple TV first came out in 2007 the messaging and branding was very clear. It was just the hardware device. The software that looked like an Apple TV interface on a Mac was called Front Row.
- sgentle 7y agoOkay, I think I've got this figured out. Can someone check my working? https://imgur.com/a/GVdsG7r https://imgur.com/a/GVdsG7r Color key: Green: Apple set-top box Yellow: App for Apple set-top box Orange: App for other Apple devices Red: App for third-party devices Yellow/Orange/Red stripe: App generally across all platforms Violet: Integrated external subscription content Blue: Apple subscription content Violet/Blue stripe: Content generally Rainbow stripe: Apple TV
- throwaway122378 7y agoBrilliantly done
- senthilmpro 7y agonailed it.
- yoz-y 7y agoWhat is the point of separating the macOS, iOS and tvOS apps into three? I think it unnecessarily complicates the thing. They are all mostly the same and only differ by the content they can play, which depends on third party support. Case in point: once you have defined the three terms, you only use the striped one except at the very end to highlight one difference, which only depends on hardware.
- deelly 7y ago> They are all mostly the same and only differ by the content they can play.. But content is a main idea of Apple TV?
- yoz-y 7y agoIt is, but if you define the Apple TV app as a sink that aggregates all content available on your platform, then it makes sense that it is different on each one. Since the way the app works is that it bounces you to the source. To me there is the device, the app and the streaming service. The Channels is just a feature of the app. I agree that the naming is not ideal, but that is on par for course with Apple nowadays.
- lilyball 7y agoFunny, I don't see an "Apple TV" app on my iPhone, I just see "TV".
- playpause 7y agoSame with Wallet, Watch, Maps - they seem to omit the ’Apple’ in app titles used on the devices, and occasionally in marketing copy on a second mention.
- tapsboy 7y agoThe mostly same problems plague Amazon Fire TV and Amazon Prime, Prime Channels, Prime Video for purchase, Prime video included in prime account, Prime App on different platforms, SSO with TV Network Apps. Looks like Apple is trying to catch up with mess. With Google, I don't even know where to start. Messaging is not the only product line they messed up. Play Movies offering the same thing as Youtube Movies and Google Play Music - Youtube Music (you can buy, you can subscribe). Adding podcasts to Google Play Music, then removing it for a standalone app. However if you download the podcasts from the standalone app, they show up as Albums in Google Play music (on Android)
- nneonneo 7y agoNetflix refers to a company, an app, a third-party app on some Smart TVs, and a subscription service, but people don’t generally get confused. Consistent branding isn’t necessarily a bad thing. That said, Apple’s support for third-party Smart TV apps is actually quite unusual IMHO; this really reduces their usual control over quality and experience.
- sigwinch28 7y agoIs it really inconsistent branding, though? To me, every one of these Netflixes is the same: the Netflix on my phone, tablet, TV, games console, and the website are all the same product. For Apple TV, however, the exact same name is used to refer to multiple different products and experiences: the device, the app on the device, the app on different devices, and many of these experiences differ significantly.
- pwinnski 7y agoUltimately, it seems like there are two different Apple TV products, but not more than that. There's the device, and there's the app/service. The difference from Netflix is that Netflix doesn't sell hardware also called Netflix.
- sigwinch28 7y agoThe author seems to be getting at that point: these two "Apple TV"s are more than two products. Assuming for a moment that the hardware devices can be a single product, the apps just cannot be: each of them has wildly different behaviour on different apple devices, with different features, and different functionality depending on the presence of 3rd party apps. As an end user I found this confusing at first, frustrating when I understood what was going on, and now I just don't use the Apple TV apps, even on my Apple TV.
- pwinnski 7y agoI guess this is subjective, but I don't see the behaviors as "wildly" different. In all cases, the Apple TV app is where you go to access the Apple TV+ service and as much other available content and video services as can possibly be presented to you on the given platform. The fact that this is different depending on your device and subscriptions is a little bit weird, but it doesn't change that much, at least for me.
- myrandomcomment 7y agoHighly recommend MrMC (https://mrmc.tv https://mrmc.tv) for the AppleTV. It is a Kodi port and allows you to mount NFS/SMB again. I switched from a PC w/Kodi to AppleTV on all the TV sets. MrMC for the local music and videos, Amazon Prime, Netflix, SiriusXM, iPlayer. Done. No moving parts, simple. I do not plug in the SmartTVs or use their apps as I do not not need my info shared with the world...
- larusso 7y agoAhhh Apple iPhoneOS became iOS (Because of the iPad and appleTV 2) iOS for the appleTV became tvOS. OSX became macOS iOS for iPad became iPadOS I wait with glee when they rename iOS back to iPhoneOS.
- DonHopkins 7y agoThe original Apple TV, circa 1979: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiWE-aO-cyU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiWE-aO-cyU
- gremlinsinc 7y agoWhat i find confusing... is I use the subscription service from Roku (trial). I kind of like that new Morning Show show, and then I wanted to see what else they had to offer on their streaming service but everything is mixed w/ 3rd party crap that's like $2/episode or something. I just want free stuff/included stuff. I login to prime/netflix I know where to go to get all the included stuff. on Apple+ via Roku it's confusing as fuck. I think it's meant to be so I dish out cash to watch stuff. But that's not going to happen, instead I'll get pissed off and get rid of the service.
- Mindwipe 7y agoThere's literally only four shows included, so it's barely worth having a category. (There actually is a category, well hidden, on the Mac/Apple TV hardware version of the app, but I'm not familiar with the Roku UI.)
- anticensor 7y agoApple TV: Far Seer's Edition
- notadoc 7y agoApple seems to have lost their focus, and that is reflecting all over their product line.