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Culture exists and can't be ignored, but that doesn't mean you have to be a slave to it. I find the most (perhaps only) annoying thing about Python the thinking
by gdulli 16y ago
Culture exists and can't be ignored, but that doesn't mean you have to be a slave to it. I find the most (perhaps only) annoying thing about Python the thinking that leads to the zombie-like refusal to deviate from PEP 8 and other habits/styles that are considered "Pythonic." And the need to defend yourself from (or ignore) the inevitable criticism that you face as people bikeshed over details that are completely orthogonal to the quality of your code.
- axod 16y ago> "Culture exists and can't be ignored" Yeah it can, why can't I ignore culture? I download a tool, and use it as I wish to within my company.
- andrewcooke 16y ago> why can't I ignore culture? In practice, it's very hard to do. Try living in a foreign country for a time.
- shortlived 16y agoIn my experience that is not true. There is a huge expat Russian population outside Boston, many of whom live in their own bubble of language and culture. The same goes for American expats living in Russia.
- andrewcooke 16y agoSure, but that's not really arguing against what I'm saying is it? There's enough of them to transplant their own culture over there. That's not the same as being "culture free".
- limmeau 16y agoYou can of course ignore a language's culture, but then your code will look and feel surprising to other programmers who are familiar with the language and its culture. If you're the only person who will need to maintain the code, fine.
- axod 16y agoThe programmers I'm ever likely to work with, are good enough that they can read code properly, regardless of if it fits into a particular 'culture' or not.
- gdulli 16y agoYou want to hire a developer for language X. The pool of candidates is heavily influenced by culture X. Same goes for job seeking.
- jimbokun 16y agoBecause the tool has almost certainly been influenced by the culture in which it was created. And the tools that integrate well with that tool, and the people on the IRC channel where you will ask questions about that tool, and so on and so forth.
- axod 16y agoAs I said elsewhere, Java doesn't force anyone to use factory everywhere, singleton, abstraction needless crap. So "Java the language" to me is a useful tool. It's in no way connected to "Java the culture" or "Enterprise Java" which are both total garbage.
- SoftwareMaven 16y agoThe flip side is that PEP 8 means that I can look at almost anybody's Python code and feel comfortable in it. I don't have to worry about editor settings or any other unimportant garbage. If I was evaluating somebody's python, I would consider that a significant mark against it. I would question how well they understood the language and what hidden gems I would find as a result.
- gdulli 16y agoIf you can grasp the algorithms and problems and solutions of software development but get thrown to any extent by small differences in whitespace or style, I don’t even know how to respond to that. That argument always feels disingenuous when I see it. It's a crappy part of the Python community, but it's still a great community.
- SoftwareMaven 16y agoUnderstanding code is challenging enough. Dealing with crap annoyances (also known as "individual styles") makes it that much more challenging. I've talked with enough engineers who feel the same way to know I'm not alone. If you are able to grok code at a higher level, that is awesome. Recognize that the majority of engineers aren't in that bucket and that style does matter. If it didn't, why would anybody have coding guidelines?