4 ms·

I find that If my work isn’t meaningful, it can really drain the life out of me (even more than truly demanding jobs). I wonder if a couple generations ago peo

I find that If my work isn’t meaningful, it can really drain the life out of me (even more than truly demanding jobs). I wonder if a couple generations ago people felt just as burnt out. It seems like this generation is the most burnt out but who knows. With everyone connected all the time, I doubt people are getting proper rest between work. If you’re answering emails over lunch, you’re still working and not resting your eyes/brain. There is a movement[0][1] towards shorter workweeks which I’m really interested in and, shameless plug[2], I run a site on this topic as well. There is real movement right now towards a 4 day work week in Western society especially in the UK. [0] https://www.4dayweekus.org/ https://www.4dayweekus.org/ [1] https://www.4dayweek.co.uk/ https://www.4dayweek.co.uk/ [2] https://30hourjobs.com https://30hourjobs.com

gherkinnn 7y ago
Interesting. I’ve been working 4d/w for years now. I might do 5 for a while if work is interesting, but will take those days off another time. Easily one of my better decisions. Worth the 20% cut in pay. For someone with few responsibilities and no expensive hobbies, that is.
- beat 7y ago
  I don't even think a 20% cut in pay is fair. Is our productivity, at least in brain-driven jobs, equally distributed across all our working hours? In other words, if we work 20% fewer hours during the week, will we do 20% less work? Or is it more like 10%?
  - gherkinnn 7y ago
    Feels like 10% less “work”. Mainly because there are fewer lapses in concentration. Harder to quantify is the time your brain gets off to dream up creative solutions.
hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
I think there are some fundamental things that have changed that are much different than 40-50 years ago: 1. Work was much more compartmentalized 30 years ago. People may have worked long hours, but for the most part, when they were "done" for the day, they were done (obviously there were exceptions, like people on call). Now, though, there is always email and texts and Slack, so it's more difficult to fully decompress from work. 2. The nature of big business has drastically changed. First, many more people are in service jobs, and I'd argue that actually building something concrete has a higher immediate payoff for most folks. Also, as jobs have gotten more efficient and segmented, most people are more removed from decision making and a tangible feeling of how their effort goes into producing a valuable product. 3. The increasing inequality in America means there is more fear of falling behind, and jobs themselves are more tenuous, so there is more stress to work harder lest you fall out of a middle/upper-middle class.
- CalRobert 7y ago
  40-50 years ago if there was an emergency my boss had to pick up a nice, chunky landline phone and call me, and _hope_ that I was home. Now they can just summon me on a whim. Of course, my boss might not even know a thing was broken, because he was at home and not at work too! (Unless he worked for a factory on shifts, power plant, restaurant, etc, - other non 9-5 business) There's a reason all my vacations are mysteriously vague camping trips to places with terrible reception.
nradov 7y ago
A couple generations ago people didn't have the luxury of feeling burnt out. They just had to get to work if they wanted to eat; asking about burn out wasn't even a relevant question. That situation still obtains for most people in poor countries today.
- eeZah7Ux 7y ago
  Feeling burnt out is not a luxury and not a choice. Not even a bit.
shantly 7y ago
4 would be great progress, but I see 3 days as the point where we've really won—when "your job" is no longer the dominant force in your life. When an ordinary working person can answer with something other than what they do for a salary when asked "what do you do?" without being deliberately obtuse or "cute". When society and the economy are structured so a working person can actually put their family first, in terms of use of time in a week. I'm a pro-family, pro-entrepreneur (UBI! Healthcare for all!) dirty socialist, I guess :-)

gherkinnn 7y ago

Interesting. I’ve been working 4d/w for years now. I might do 5 for a while if work is interesting, but will take those days off another time. Easily one of my better decisions. Worth the 20% cut in pay. For someone with few responsibilities and no expensive hobbies, that is.

beat 7y ago
I don't even think a 20% cut in pay is fair. Is our productivity, at least in brain-driven jobs, equally distributed across all our working hours? In other words, if we work 20% fewer hours during the week, will we do 20% less work? Or is it more like 10%?
- gherkinnn 7y ago
  Feels like 10% less “work”. Mainly because there are fewer lapses in concentration. Harder to quantify is the time your brain gets off to dream up creative solutions.

hn_throwaway_99 7y ago

I think there are some fundamental things that have changed that are much different than 40-50 years ago: 1. Work was much more compartmentalized 30 years ago. People may have worked long hours, but for the most part, when they were "done" for the day, they were done (obviously there were exceptions, like people on call). Now, though, there is always email and texts and Slack, so it's more difficult to fully decompress from work. 2. The nature of big business has drastically changed. First, many more people are in service jobs, and I'd argue that actually building something concrete has a higher immediate payoff for most folks. Also, as jobs have gotten more efficient and segmented, most people are more removed from decision making and a tangible feeling of how their effort goes into producing a valuable product. 3. The increasing inequality in America means there is more fear of falling behind, and jobs themselves are more tenuous, so there is more stress to work harder lest you fall out of a middle/upper-middle class.

CalRobert 7y ago
40-50 years ago if there was an emergency my boss had to pick up a nice, chunky landline phone and call me, and _hope_ that I was home. Now they can just summon me on a whim. Of course, my boss might not even know a thing was broken, because he was at home and not at work too! (Unless he worked for a factory on shifts, power plant, restaurant, etc, - other non 9-5 business) There's a reason all my vacations are mysteriously vague camping trips to places with terrible reception.

nradov 7y ago

A couple generations ago people didn't have the luxury of feeling burnt out. They just had to get to work if they wanted to eat; asking about burn out wasn't even a relevant question. That situation still obtains for most people in poor countries today.

eeZah7Ux 7y ago
Feeling burnt out is not a luxury and not a choice. Not even a bit.

shantly 7y ago

4 would be great progress, but I see 3 days as the point where we've really won—when "your job" is no longer the dominant force in your life. When an ordinary working person can answer with something other than what they do for a salary when asked "what do you do?" without being deliberately obtuse or "cute". When society and the economy are structured so a working person can actually put their family first, in terms of use of time in a week. I'm a pro-family, pro-entrepreneur (UBI! Healthcare for all!) dirty socialist, I guess :-)