10 ms·

Society doesn’t care about men’s issues. 57% of undergraduates are now women yet every resource makes it seem like men are way ahead and tries to bring them dow

Society doesn’t care about men’s issues. 57% of undergraduates are now women yet every resource makes it seem like men are way ahead and tries to bring them down because.001% most powerful are mostly men. It’s okay to mock men constantly and anyone responding back gets demonized.

TulliusCicero 7y ago
Neither side is actually wrong. Men dominate the corridors of power, and also the corridors of the dispossessed (e.g. the homeless, imprisoned, etc). Both of these things are problems.
- mongol 7y ago
  But interestingly, one gets much more attention than the other.
  - TulliusCicero 7y ago
    Correct. The left cares about the dispossessed, at least to the extent that it gives them votes, but all the anti-men-in-power animosity does spill over I think to the effect of making it hard to drum up sympathy for men where men are suffering. The right mostly doesn't give a shit about the dispossessed, at least as far as potential government intervention goes. They're more social darwinist; if some men are really suffering, maybe they should stop being such losers, goes the thinking.
    - AlexTWithBeard 7y ago
      maybe they should stop being such losers I think another motive here may be that if you provide "the dispossessed" and benefits, you create the incentive to become dispossessed. This problem is relatively easy to solve on a small community level (all family knows that aunt Rosa isn't actually as sick as she likes to pretend), but becomes extremely complicated when scaled to the whole country.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
    - ackshually 7y ago
      I'm not american, so correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I see in the american news many liberal strongholds have the highest homeless rates and aren't doing a lot to remedy the situation - lacking low income housing etc. It makes me a little skeptical that "the left"[1] care that much about the homeless. [1] I'll be honest I think "the left" and "liberal" are kind of useless catch all term at this point and lumps too many people into one group together. For instance, for this conversation I mean middle class college educated men and women living in coastal american cities that had at least semi-stable childhoods.
      - TulliusCicero 7y ago
        Yes, but you have to consider that the homeless aren't fixed to a certain place. A place that's more generous to the homeless will inevitably get more homeless people. Because why wouldn't you go to somewhere that treats you better, rather than the place that treats you like garbage? This means there's a financial incentive for any given city to treat the homeless like shit. Classic free rider problem; why not let other cities deal with helping them? If you look at the countries where they do a better job, what you largely see is not a handful of metros doing their part, while other cities and the national government completely shunt the responsibility. The whole country contributes, is at least sort of on the same page. At least, that's been my experience living in Germany and reading about other places. So in my opinion, what we'd need to see is a federal mandate that doesn't let some cities mooch off of others' charity. But short of Bernie storming the white House and the Dems getting an overwhelming majority in both halves of Congress, it's hard to see that happening. Anyway, I don't disagree that more liberal cities could do more, but at the same time I don't think the problem is solvable without national involvement.
        ackshually 7y ago
        Very fair point, haven't thought about it that way. I wonder if any studies have been done on where the homeless in the liberal leaning cities actually originally come from. As for the Dems in congress - You'd need the right kind of democrat also. I think Hillary clinton did a real number to that parties reputation during her time in power. The american democrats desperately need smart, ethical and above all honest new faces that will fight the rampant corruption in american politics.
    - bitlax 7y ago
      > The right mostly doesn't give a shit about the dispossessed, at least as far as potential government intervention goes. They're more social darwinist; if some men are really suffering, maybe they should stop being such losers, goes the thinking. Well yeah, being against government intervention is sort of the classic definition of the American political right. People on the right believe that when possible you should choose private charity over government programs. They also donate more to private charities.
      - jraby3 7y ago
        Yes but those are primarily religious organizations.
        bitlax 7y ago
        Yes they believe much of the care for the needy should be undertaken by institutions like religious organizations.
        tropo 7y ago
        Even when you exclude religious organizations, the right donates more. It's an odd fact, isn't it? It doesn't mesh well with the portrayal of them as stingy people who don't care about others.
      - TulliusCicero 7y ago
        Yes, and that's what we have right now. How has that worked for us, compared to other countries? We all know the answer is that the homeless are radically better off in those interventionist countries. Ergo, if we care about results, ours are rather abysmal. > Well yeah, being against government intervention is sort of the classic definition of the American political right. To a certain extent, but it also depends on the domain. The right is very much in favor of government intervention for some things, like who you're allowed to marry, or how you can have sex.
    - growlist 7y ago
      Left? Right? Sadly these days I think that the vast majority of politicians are merely playing a role when it comes to political persuasion, and would be quite happy to do a complete 180 in standpoint if it meant a sufficiently large pay off in terms of power and/or money.
  - sct202 7y ago
    The MRA groups, on Reddit at least, seem to spend more time blaming other people for things that are affecting men versus figuring out ways to overcome the issues.
    - spikels 7y ago
      Ditto for every identity group.
    - everdrive 7y ago
      The salient point of an identity group is to be angry at the other groups. This is true of all the groups, and is a very important vice to avoid. It's alluring in a way that people don't have very good defenses against.
    - harimau777 7y ago
      It seems to me that in many cases the answer may be "what's the alternative?" For example, if someone doesn't know how to find a girlfriend, then PUAs are the only game in town. Until viable alternatives are presented I suspect that men will keep going with what's available.
    - growlist 7y ago
      Thing is though, whenever they do do something - like say, organising a group to discuss their problems - they get attacked, ridiculed etc. in a way that no other group ever does today.
    - akuchling 7y ago
      At least https://www.reddit.com/r/MensLib/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MensLib/ takes a more enlightened approach.
- okintheory 7y ago
  This is the key point. People in power would like to avoid divisions that are between them and people with less power. Instead they prefer divisions between different groups of people with less power, because that way these groups will be ineffective. If the median white American man understood this, he would understand that he is siding with the wrong people. ---- PS: Yes, I know the labels for this might be "divide and conquer", and "false consciousness", but I think people have trouble relating to these terms.
  - DuskStar 7y ago
    > If the median white American man understood this, he would understand that he is siding with the wrong people. I'm sorry, what groups are you saying actually support the "median white American man"?
    - yongjik 7y ago
      People who fight for universal healthcare, for example. Last time I checked, they didn't say "universal healthcare if you are exceptionally poor, colored, non-American, and/or female."
      - DuskStar 7y ago
        Well, "people who fight for universal healthcare" seems to be pretty constrained to the left of American politics. And while it might just be outgroup homogeneity bias, the American Left has been relatively vocal in its dislike of "average white men"... (At the very least the identity politics subsection seems to be "the farther you are from 'straight white man', the better")
        okintheory 7y ago
        For sure, people who say stuff that sounds like they don't like any white men get a lot of attention. But, I suspect they form a very small minority, also on the Left. Can I ask, what for you are some important examples of anti-"median-white-American-man" statements? I'm aware that there is a prevailing narrative in many parts of the media that this group is being singled out a lot, but personally I don't often see blanket statements of that sort.
kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
I like to s/wo// any slogan. If it sounds sexist the original probably is too. Nobody cringes because we've been trained to accept it.
- swebs 7y ago
  That's the idea behind the parody subreddit Men Kampf. >In the post you're about to make, replace cis/white/hetero/male people with the Jews and if the result sounds like something that could be right out of Mein Kampf, you should probably reconsider your social justice blogging habits. https://www.reddit.com/r/menkampf/top/?t=year https://www.reddit.com/r/menkampf/top/?t=year
  - rpmisms 7y ago
    Love that sub. It's rather poignant.
  - LegitShady 7y ago
    as a jewish man, lol
e2le 7y ago
I couldn't agree more. I see very little representation of issues affecting men and a lot of demonization of perceived wrongs that men do. International Men's Day also received very little recognition despite it's focus on real issues affecting men such as mental health and the justification I heard often was "everyday is men's day" and "<insert incels insult here>". Men also have a problem with being less vocal and outspoken on issues that affect them compared to women which is something that needs to change.
- snagglegaggle 7y ago
  Society has many (new?) structural problems dealing with men's issues. A lot of it is sexism favoring women, but a lot of it is a lack of desire to understand the issues facing men and address them. To get an idea how bad it can be check out the APA's guidelines on treating men.[0] I think at the root of this is just a poor economy. Many of these issues about uselessness or loneliness would be solved by a job and a significant other. But no one's just going to start handing out well paying jobs and girlfriends. [0] https://www.apa.org/about/policy/boys-men-practice-guidelines.pdf https://www.apa.org/about/policy/boys-men-practice-guideline...
  - krapp 7y ago
    >To get an idea how bad it can be check out the APA's guidelines on treating men What is the problem with these guidelines? I didn't see anything particularly controversial or objectionable there, although I did just skim them.
    - snagglegaggle 7y ago
      The gist of it (to me) is it focuses on issues that are the feminist conception of what is wrong with masculinity and it is overly focused on masculinity. Masculinity, or what women think masculinity is, is usually just a proxy for feeling included and wanted. It's fine to say you don't owe anyone anything or don't need to impress anyone -- but as a man, if you're not doing those things (even in a way which isn't "manly"), no one cares who you are. In my experience this leads to going to a therapist and being told you can be anything you want to be, but when you actually try to follow up and get help, no one wants to help you because you're a man. I can't get it to load on this connection so I can't provide direct citations. Most of what I found objectionable was in the first two pages or so.
MPetitt 7y ago
This is some MRA BS. No one has it easy, but to say society doesn’t care about men’s issues is laughable. If you’re complaining about not taking up most college slots or “being mocked”/“put down” then you’re massively out of touch with the issues others are facing. Instead of complaining about how bad it is to be a man you should learn more about the unique struggles than non-men have to live with, many at the expense of “men”.
- humanrebar 7y ago
  GP: Men have problems we should pay attention to. It's not logical to conclude that if privileged people are men, all men are relatively privileged. You: BS. Out of touch. Men are too ignorant to complain. A better reply would have responded to the actual points in some substantial way. For example, we could go back to "the 1%" phrasing and stop saying "men" are privileged while also complaining about male incarceration rates.
- LUmBULtERA 7y ago
  >to say society doesn’t care about men’s issues is laughable Life expectancy is going down, "deaths of despair" among men in particular are going up significantly, and as someone voices their concern that society doesn't care about these issues, you are literally laughing at them? Even if your underlying point is correct, to be laughing in their face and dismiss it as "MRA" seems to provide evidence against your own argument.
  - clmul 7y ago
    We don't know why exactly these deaths of despair are increasing, and I don't think it's right to assume that it has anything to do with people not caring about "men's issues", as the problem does not seem to be unique to men, from the article: > Young women are also experiencing a sharp uptick in drug overdoses
- ackshually 7y ago
  It's astonishing that this is still an argument that can be seen in the wild.
Loughla 7y ago
> 57% of undergraduates are now women True >yet every resource makes it seem like men are way ahead and tries to bring them down What college resources are trying to bring men down?
- SuoDuanDao 7y ago
  Students at my university tried to create a 'men's space' on campus, similar to a 'women's space' that had existed for years. The student paper was full of articles for months talking about what horrible misogyny men would get up to if they were allowed to gather in a space without female supervision and people were ostracized for expressing support for the project, there was an immediate backlash of intimidation that successfully shut it down.
  - CalRobert 7y ago
    That's interesting, and seems sad. Where I live there's an entire program for spaces for men to try to address a mental health and suicide epidemic among (mostly older) rural men. http://menssheds.ie/ http://menssheds.ie/
- snagglegaggle 7y ago
  Have you just ever tried to ask for help while being male? There's people lining up at student centers to help female students, but go in as a guy and no one really cares. Sure, you can say men don't take advantage of educational resources, but that's typically because they're used to those resources wanting to be unhelpful.
sgt101 7y ago
Society does care, tune into the positive things that are being done for men like acknowledging their mental health needs and enabling their role as carers.
- LegitShady 7y ago
  how are mens mental health statistics doing? What does "enabling their role as carers" do for those who aren't carers? Is that for men or for a subset of men that accept the heavily biased current status quo? The things you mentioned arent being done for men, they're being done to men.
  - sgt101 7y ago
    well, the statistics for men's mental health are being acknowledged. By you and me. and for those who aren't carers, perhaps look to being carers. All categories are filled with subsets. There are always folks left behind. Let's look to them. What are the struggles and needs that you would like us to focus on and meet?
    - LegitShady 7y ago
      But what is the trend? Is whatever you claim like acknowledgement valuable in terms of real world effect? What are the statistics on men's health? What if acknowledgment isn't a solution? As to your second part - is sort of see the back and forth like this . You "We are supporting men who are carers" Me "What about men who aren't carers?" You "perhaps look into being carers" This is the opposite of an empowerment message. You're saying if they want support they must conform to being you. I don't want anything from you sir. You represent no one and nothing. I was merely contradicting your statements that the two things you mentioned are being done for men, when in fact they're being done to men. What do I want from you? To acknowledge that becoming carers and being acknowledged as having mental issues isn't a solution for anyone.
      - sgt101 7y ago
        Who is it that is doing this to men? Who is it that is attacking you? Who is it that you hate? And also : you say you don't want anything from me, and then you say you want me to acknowledge your pain? The first step here is for you to acknowledge that you are in pain, you are distressed, and you need some help.
bjourne 7y ago
Do you have any sources for a) society doesn't care about men's issues and b) it is okay to mock men constantly?
kibwen 7y ago
The article suggests that this is an issue of rich vs. poor, not of men vs. women.
matthewdgreen 7y ago
"Society doesn’t care about men’s issues." Please. My wife recently had some health issues due to a condition that primarily affects women, and I went with her to her medical appointments. The level of casual dismissal I saw regarding pain and symptoms from numerous (male and female) doctors was absolutely shocking. While I've certainly had doctors fail to resolve a medical condition before, nothing like the lack of respect I saw had ever accompanied my interactions at a doctor's office. If you genuinely believe that "society doesn't care about men's issues", at least compared to women's issues, you're living in an absolute fantasy world.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- 50656E6973 7y ago
  Your anecdotal dismissal supports the parent commenter's point.
  - clmul 7y ago
    It's fairly well-known that there is more medical knowledge about men, and women are affected in different ways by diseases, about which more knowledge is needed. See for example this article: https://www.ft.com/content/7864ae80-9597-11e8-95f8-8640db9060a7 https://www.ft.com/content/7864ae80-9597-11e8-95f8-8640db906...
    - 50656E6973 7y ago
      Indeed. And yet life expectancy is still lower for men, and is getting worse. Can we not talk about that for a moment?
      - clmul 7y ago
        Sure we can, but I don't think it's very productive to start arguing that society doesn't care about men's issues. I don't immediately see what society has to do with the lower life expectancy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy#Sex_differences https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy#Sex_difference...

TulliusCicero 7y ago

Neither side is actually wrong. Men dominate the corridors of power, and also the corridors of the dispossessed (e.g. the homeless, imprisoned, etc). Both of these things are problems.

mongol 7y ago
But interestingly, one gets much more attention than the other.
- TulliusCicero 7y ago
  Correct. The left cares about the dispossessed, at least to the extent that it gives them votes, but all the anti-men-in-power animosity does spill over I think to the effect of making it hard to drum up sympathy for men where men are suffering. The right mostly doesn't give a shit about the dispossessed, at least as far as potential government intervention goes. They're more social darwinist; if some men are really suffering, maybe they should stop being such losers, goes the thinking.
  - AlexTWithBeard 7y ago
    maybe they should stop being such losers I think another motive here may be that if you provide "the dispossessed" and benefits, you create the incentive to become dispossessed. This problem is relatively easy to solve on a small community level (all family knows that aunt Rosa isn't actually as sick as she likes to pretend), but becomes extremely complicated when scaled to the whole country.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - ackshually 7y ago
    I'm not american, so correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I see in the american news many liberal strongholds have the highest homeless rates and aren't doing a lot to remedy the situation - lacking low income housing etc. It makes me a little skeptical that "the left"[1] care that much about the homeless. [1] I'll be honest I think "the left" and "liberal" are kind of useless catch all term at this point and lumps too many people into one group together. For instance, for this conversation I mean middle class college educated men and women living in coastal american cities that had at least semi-stable childhoods.
    - TulliusCicero 7y ago
      Yes, but you have to consider that the homeless aren't fixed to a certain place. A place that's more generous to the homeless will inevitably get more homeless people. Because why wouldn't you go to somewhere that treats you better, rather than the place that treats you like garbage? This means there's a financial incentive for any given city to treat the homeless like shit. Classic free rider problem; why not let other cities deal with helping them? If you look at the countries where they do a better job, what you largely see is not a handful of metros doing their part, while other cities and the national government completely shunt the responsibility. The whole country contributes, is at least sort of on the same page. At least, that's been my experience living in Germany and reading about other places. So in my opinion, what we'd need to see is a federal mandate that doesn't let some cities mooch off of others' charity. But short of Bernie storming the white House and the Dems getting an overwhelming majority in both halves of Congress, it's hard to see that happening. Anyway, I don't disagree that more liberal cities could do more, but at the same time I don't think the problem is solvable without national involvement.
      - ackshually 7y ago
        Very fair point, haven't thought about it that way. I wonder if any studies have been done on where the homeless in the liberal leaning cities actually originally come from. As for the Dems in congress - You'd need the right kind of democrat also. I think Hillary clinton did a real number to that parties reputation during her time in power. The american democrats desperately need smart, ethical and above all honest new faces that will fight the rampant corruption in american politics.
  - bitlax 7y ago
    > The right mostly doesn't give a shit about the dispossessed, at least as far as potential government intervention goes. They're more social darwinist; if some men are really suffering, maybe they should stop being such losers, goes the thinking. Well yeah, being against government intervention is sort of the classic definition of the American political right. People on the right believe that when possible you should choose private charity over government programs. They also donate more to private charities.
    - jraby3 7y ago
      Yes but those are primarily religious organizations.
      - bitlax 7y ago
        Yes they believe much of the care for the needy should be undertaken by institutions like religious organizations.
      - tropo 7y ago
        Even when you exclude religious organizations, the right donates more. It's an odd fact, isn't it? It doesn't mesh well with the portrayal of them as stingy people who don't care about others.
    - TulliusCicero 7y ago
      Yes, and that's what we have right now. How has that worked for us, compared to other countries? We all know the answer is that the homeless are radically better off in those interventionist countries. Ergo, if we care about results, ours are rather abysmal. > Well yeah, being against government intervention is sort of the classic definition of the American political right. To a certain extent, but it also depends on the domain. The right is very much in favor of government intervention for some things, like who you're allowed to marry, or how you can have sex.
  - growlist 7y ago
    Left? Right? Sadly these days I think that the vast majority of politicians are merely playing a role when it comes to political persuasion, and would be quite happy to do a complete 180 in standpoint if it meant a sufficiently large pay off in terms of power and/or money.
- sct202 7y ago
  The MRA groups, on Reddit at least, seem to spend more time blaming other people for things that are affecting men versus figuring out ways to overcome the issues.
  - spikels 7y ago
    Ditto for every identity group.
  - everdrive 7y ago
    The salient point of an identity group is to be angry at the other groups. This is true of all the groups, and is a very important vice to avoid. It's alluring in a way that people don't have very good defenses against.
  - harimau777 7y ago
    It seems to me that in many cases the answer may be "what's the alternative?" For example, if someone doesn't know how to find a girlfriend, then PUAs are the only game in town. Until viable alternatives are presented I suspect that men will keep going with what's available.
  - growlist 7y ago
    Thing is though, whenever they do do something - like say, organising a group to discuss their problems - they get attacked, ridiculed etc. in a way that no other group ever does today.
  - akuchling 7y ago
    At least https://www.reddit.com/r/MensLib/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MensLib/ takes a more enlightened approach.
okintheory 7y ago
This is the key point. People in power would like to avoid divisions that are between them and people with less power. Instead they prefer divisions between different groups of people with less power, because that way these groups will be ineffective. If the median white American man understood this, he would understand that he is siding with the wrong people. ---- PS: Yes, I know the labels for this might be "divide and conquer", and "false consciousness", but I think people have trouble relating to these terms.
- DuskStar 7y ago
  > If the median white American man understood this, he would understand that he is siding with the wrong people. I'm sorry, what groups are you saying actually support the "median white American man"?
  - yongjik 7y ago
    People who fight for universal healthcare, for example. Last time I checked, they didn't say "universal healthcare if you are exceptionally poor, colored, non-American, and/or female."
    - DuskStar 7y ago
      Well, "people who fight for universal healthcare" seems to be pretty constrained to the left of American politics. And while it might just be outgroup homogeneity bias, the American Left has been relatively vocal in its dislike of "average white men"... (At the very least the identity politics subsection seems to be "the farther you are from 'straight white man', the better")
      - okintheory 7y ago
        For sure, people who say stuff that sounds like they don't like any white men get a lot of attention. But, I suspect they form a very small minority, also on the Left. Can I ask, what for you are some important examples of anti-"median-white-American-man" statements? I'm aware that there is a prevailing narrative in many parts of the media that this group is being singled out a lot, but personally I don't often see blanket statements of that sort.

kevin_thibedeau 7y ago

I like to s/wo// any slogan. If it sounds sexist the original probably is too. Nobody cringes because we've been trained to accept it.

swebs 7y ago
That's the idea behind the parody subreddit Men Kampf. >In the post you're about to make, replace cis/white/hetero/male people with the Jews and if the result sounds like something that could be right out of Mein Kampf, you should probably reconsider your social justice blogging habits. https://www.reddit.com/r/menkampf/top/?t=year https://www.reddit.com/r/menkampf/top/?t=year
- rpmisms 7y ago
  Love that sub. It's rather poignant.
- LegitShady 7y ago
  as a jewish man, lol

e2le 7y ago

I couldn't agree more. I see very little representation of issues affecting men and a lot of demonization of perceived wrongs that men do. International Men's Day also received very little recognition despite it's focus on real issues affecting men such as mental health and the justification I heard often was "everyday is men's day" and "<insert incels insult here>". Men also have a problem with being less vocal and outspoken on issues that affect them compared to women which is something that needs to change.

snagglegaggle 7y ago
Society has many (new?) structural problems dealing with men's issues. A lot of it is sexism favoring women, but a lot of it is a lack of desire to understand the issues facing men and address them. To get an idea how bad it can be check out the APA's guidelines on treating men.[0] I think at the root of this is just a poor economy. Many of these issues about uselessness or loneliness would be solved by a job and a significant other. But no one's just going to start handing out well paying jobs and girlfriends. [0] https://www.apa.org/about/policy/boys-men-practice-guidelines.pdf https://www.apa.org/about/policy/boys-men-practice-guideline...
- krapp 7y ago
  >To get an idea how bad it can be check out the APA's guidelines on treating men What is the problem with these guidelines? I didn't see anything particularly controversial or objectionable there, although I did just skim them.
  - snagglegaggle 7y ago
    The gist of it (to me) is it focuses on issues that are the feminist conception of what is wrong with masculinity and it is overly focused on masculinity. Masculinity, or what women think masculinity is, is usually just a proxy for feeling included and wanted. It's fine to say you don't owe anyone anything or don't need to impress anyone -- but as a man, if you're not doing those things (even in a way which isn't "manly"), no one cares who you are. In my experience this leads to going to a therapist and being told you can be anything you want to be, but when you actually try to follow up and get help, no one wants to help you because you're a man. I can't get it to load on this connection so I can't provide direct citations. Most of what I found objectionable was in the first two pages or so.

MPetitt 7y ago

This is some MRA BS. No one has it easy, but to say society doesn’t care about men’s issues is laughable. If you’re complaining about not taking up most college slots or “being mocked”/“put down” then you’re massively out of touch with the issues others are facing. Instead of complaining about how bad it is to be a man you should learn more about the unique struggles than non-men have to live with, many at the expense of “men”.

humanrebar 7y ago
GP: Men have problems we should pay attention to. It's not logical to conclude that if privileged people are men, all men are relatively privileged. You: BS. Out of touch. Men are too ignorant to complain. A better reply would have responded to the actual points in some substantial way. For example, we could go back to "the 1%" phrasing and stop saying "men" are privileged while also complaining about male incarceration rates.
LUmBULtERA 7y ago
>to say society doesn’t care about men’s issues is laughable Life expectancy is going down, "deaths of despair" among men in particular are going up significantly, and as someone voices their concern that society doesn't care about these issues, you are literally laughing at them? Even if your underlying point is correct, to be laughing in their face and dismiss it as "MRA" seems to provide evidence against your own argument.
- clmul 7y ago
  We don't know why exactly these deaths of despair are increasing, and I don't think it's right to assume that it has anything to do with people not caring about "men's issues", as the problem does not seem to be unique to men, from the article: > Young women are also experiencing a sharp uptick in drug overdoses
ackshually 7y ago
It's astonishing that this is still an argument that can be seen in the wild.

Loughla 7y ago

> 57% of undergraduates are now women True >yet every resource makes it seem like men are way ahead and tries to bring them down What college resources are trying to bring men down?

SuoDuanDao 7y ago
Students at my university tried to create a 'men's space' on campus, similar to a 'women's space' that had existed for years. The student paper was full of articles for months talking about what horrible misogyny men would get up to if they were allowed to gather in a space without female supervision and people were ostracized for expressing support for the project, there was an immediate backlash of intimidation that successfully shut it down.
- CalRobert 7y ago
  That's interesting, and seems sad. Where I live there's an entire program for spaces for men to try to address a mental health and suicide epidemic among (mostly older) rural men. http://menssheds.ie/ http://menssheds.ie/
snagglegaggle 7y ago
Have you just ever tried to ask for help while being male? There's people lining up at student centers to help female students, but go in as a guy and no one really cares. Sure, you can say men don't take advantage of educational resources, but that's typically because they're used to those resources wanting to be unhelpful.

sgt101 7y ago

Society does care, tune into the positive things that are being done for men like acknowledging their mental health needs and enabling their role as carers.

LegitShady 7y ago
how are mens mental health statistics doing? What does "enabling their role as carers" do for those who aren't carers? Is that for men or for a subset of men that accept the heavily biased current status quo? The things you mentioned arent being done for men, they're being done to men.
- sgt101 7y ago
  well, the statistics for men's mental health are being acknowledged. By you and me. and for those who aren't carers, perhaps look to being carers. All categories are filled with subsets. There are always folks left behind. Let's look to them. What are the struggles and needs that you would like us to focus on and meet?
  - LegitShady 7y ago
    But what is the trend? Is whatever you claim like acknowledgement valuable in terms of real world effect? What are the statistics on men's health? What if acknowledgment isn't a solution? As to your second part - is sort of see the back and forth like this . You "We are supporting men who are carers" Me "What about men who aren't carers?" You "perhaps look into being carers" This is the opposite of an empowerment message. You're saying if they want support they must conform to being you. I don't want anything from you sir. You represent no one and nothing. I was merely contradicting your statements that the two things you mentioned are being done for men, when in fact they're being done to men. What do I want from you? To acknowledge that becoming carers and being acknowledged as having mental issues isn't a solution for anyone.
    - sgt101 7y ago
      Who is it that is doing this to men? Who is it that is attacking you? Who is it that you hate? And also : you say you don't want anything from me, and then you say you want me to acknowledge your pain? The first step here is for you to acknowledge that you are in pain, you are distressed, and you need some help.

bjourne 7y ago

Do you have any sources for a) society doesn't care about men's issues and b) it is okay to mock men constantly?

kibwen 7y ago

The article suggests that this is an issue of rich vs. poor, not of men vs. women.

matthewdgreen 7y ago

"Society doesn’t care about men’s issues." Please. My wife recently had some health issues due to a condition that primarily affects women, and I went with her to her medical appointments. The level of casual dismissal I saw regarding pain and symptoms from numerous (male and female) doctors was absolutely shocking. While I've certainly had doctors fail to resolve a medical condition before, nothing like the lack of respect I saw had ever accompanied my interactions at a doctor's office. If you genuinely believe that "society doesn't care about men's issues", at least compared to women's issues, you're living in an absolute fantasy world.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
50656E6973 7y ago
Your anecdotal dismissal supports the parent commenter's point.
- clmul 7y ago
  It's fairly well-known that there is more medical knowledge about men, and women are affected in different ways by diseases, about which more knowledge is needed. See for example this article: https://www.ft.com/content/7864ae80-9597-11e8-95f8-8640db9060a7 https://www.ft.com/content/7864ae80-9597-11e8-95f8-8640db906...
  - 50656E6973 7y ago
    Indeed. And yet life expectancy is still lower for men, and is getting worse. Can we not talk about that for a moment?
    - clmul 7y ago
      Sure we can, but I don't think it's very productive to start arguing that society doesn't care about men's issues. I don't immediately see what society has to do with the lower life expectancy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy#Sex_differences https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy#Sex_difference...