4 ms·

From Frab's schema.rb: create_table "people", force: :cascade do |t| # ... t.string "first_name", limit: 255, default: "" t.string "last_name", l

From Frab's schema.rb: create_table "people", force: :cascade do |t| # ... t.string "first_name", limit: 255, default: "" t.string "last_name", limit: 255, default: "" t.string "gender", limit: 255 # ... end Our schema has a similar table, but with "prefix" instead of "gender", where on the front end a list pops down with Mr., Ms., etc. We just use the prefix to form the full name. I wonder where the need to track gender comes from in such an app. We manage events and conferences too, but gender hasn't come up beyond the salutation. Since they do care about gender maybe they will soon also want pronoun and possessive_pronoun columns.

dbrgn 7y ago
The gender _might_ be used to ensure diverse speaker selection.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
nisuni 7y ago
Some conferences are in locations with restricted accommodation facilities, and if you don’t specify a roommate, you are paired with someone of your gender. So that’s why the gender might be needed. As far as the preferred pronouns are concerned, I see them as something with heavy political connotations. No one who is not hard left believes in the necessity of the xir pronoun, and of course there are trans people also among the right! So, to me it’s completely acceptable that something so controversial is not included.
- blahblahthrow 7y ago
  Automatically pairing people by gender is pretty weird IMO. As a trans woman I have to find my own roommate or find an organizer to intervene and explain my life story to them.
  - rebuilder 7y ago
    I can see how that would be frustrating. What would be an alternative?
  - nisuni 7y ago
    The choice works for 99% of people, and it’s always very clearly stated. If you have any problem with the default choice, I am sure the organizers will do their best to accommodate your request. The same holds for special dietary requests, special assistance, people arriving late or leaving earlier, people traveling with partners, with children, etc... I don’t want to be rude, but please just realize that usually the defaults try to accommodate as many persons as possible, and then there’s always the possibility to ask. Do you have any better solution? I would be interesting in hearing what you think!
vharuck 7y ago
The "first name, last name" fields are worse, IMO. - It doesn't apply for many cultures. - The only justification to collect them separately is to link with third-party data. - They should stop playing around and just ask me what they want to know, "How would you like to be addressed?"
- fefe23 7y ago
  This is a toolkit. You use whatever parts you want from it. Both fields are large enough to hold the full name if that is how you roll. The software needs to have a database layout that supports the superset of what all individual users need.
- jjeaff 7y ago
  There are lots of reasons to need them separate. Alphabetizing by last name, showing only the first name in some places, only last name in some places...
- donw 7y ago
  > It doesn't apply for many cultures. I'm struggling to come up with a list of those. Middle names are definitely not universal, sure, but I can't seem to find a list of cultures that can't map down to "first name, last name". Iceland, Indonesia, Turkey, Ethiopia, everything I've come across seems to have adopted some superset of "first name, last name" in the last hundred years. > The only justification to collect them separately is to link with third-party data. In Japan, many organizations are required to collect this for legal compliance. > They should stop playing around and just ask me what they want to know, "How would you like to be addressed?" That is a good thing to ask -- and certainly suitable for generating nametags! -- but I can still see many cases for needing to have a legal name. Generating receipts, etc.
  - JimDabell 7y ago
    > I can't seem to find a list of cultures that can't map down to "first name, last name". It's the meaning of them that's mainly the problem. In western cultures, the first name is your given name and the last name is your family name. In eastern cultures the first name is your family name and the last name is your personal name. So without more information, you don't know whether to call them "Mr [first name]" or "Mr [last name]". If you don't know what to call them after they've filled in the name fields in your form, that's a pretty fundamental failure. > I can still see many cases for needing to have a legal name. Sure, but first name / last name is not a good way to do it.
fefe23 7y ago
The gender field was added for FrosCon. They used it to select what kind of t-shirt you want. Other uses have been to suggest shared sleeping arrangements.
- hirundo 7y ago
  > They used it to select what kind of t-shirt you want. Then it's incomplete without a "shirt_size" column.

dbrgn 7y ago

The gender _might_ be used to ensure diverse speaker selection.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

nisuni 7y ago

Some conferences are in locations with restricted accommodation facilities, and if you don’t specify a roommate, you are paired with someone of your gender. So that’s why the gender might be needed. As far as the preferred pronouns are concerned, I see them as something with heavy political connotations. No one who is not hard left believes in the necessity of the xir pronoun, and of course there are trans people also among the right! So, to me it’s completely acceptable that something so controversial is not included.

blahblahthrow 7y ago
Automatically pairing people by gender is pretty weird IMO. As a trans woman I have to find my own roommate or find an organizer to intervene and explain my life story to them.
- rebuilder 7y ago
  I can see how that would be frustrating. What would be an alternative?
- nisuni 7y ago
  The choice works for 99% of people, and it’s always very clearly stated. If you have any problem with the default choice, I am sure the organizers will do their best to accommodate your request. The same holds for special dietary requests, special assistance, people arriving late or leaving earlier, people traveling with partners, with children, etc... I don’t want to be rude, but please just realize that usually the defaults try to accommodate as many persons as possible, and then there’s always the possibility to ask. Do you have any better solution? I would be interesting in hearing what you think!

vharuck 7y ago

The "first name, last name" fields are worse, IMO. - It doesn't apply for many cultures. - The only justification to collect them separately is to link with third-party data. - They should stop playing around and just ask me what they want to know, "How would you like to be addressed?"

fefe23 7y ago
This is a toolkit. You use whatever parts you want from it. Both fields are large enough to hold the full name if that is how you roll. The software needs to have a database layout that supports the superset of what all individual users need.
jjeaff 7y ago
There are lots of reasons to need them separate. Alphabetizing by last name, showing only the first name in some places, only last name in some places...
donw 7y ago
> It doesn't apply for many cultures. I'm struggling to come up with a list of those. Middle names are definitely not universal, sure, but I can't seem to find a list of cultures that can't map down to "first name, last name". Iceland, Indonesia, Turkey, Ethiopia, everything I've come across seems to have adopted some superset of "first name, last name" in the last hundred years. > The only justification to collect them separately is to link with third-party data. In Japan, many organizations are required to collect this for legal compliance. > They should stop playing around and just ask me what they want to know, "How would you like to be addressed?" That is a good thing to ask -- and certainly suitable for generating nametags! -- but I can still see many cases for needing to have a legal name. Generating receipts, etc.
- JimDabell 7y ago
  > I can't seem to find a list of cultures that can't map down to "first name, last name". It's the meaning of them that's mainly the problem. In western cultures, the first name is your given name and the last name is your family name. In eastern cultures the first name is your family name and the last name is your personal name. So without more information, you don't know whether to call them "Mr [first name]" or "Mr [last name]". If you don't know what to call them after they've filled in the name fields in your form, that's a pretty fundamental failure. > I can still see many cases for needing to have a legal name. Sure, but first name / last name is not a good way to do it.

fefe23 7y ago

The gender field was added for FrosCon. They used it to select what kind of t-shirt you want. Other uses have been to suggest shared sleeping arrangements.

hirundo 7y ago
> They used it to select what kind of t-shirt you want. Then it's incomplete without a "shirt_size" column.