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An USB plug that goes both ways
- confuzatron 16y ago12312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f45212312312e1e21s3eds23rfd2435fs2f452
- confuzatron 16y agoHacker Newsnew | threads | comments | ask | jobs | submit confuzatron (905) | logout
- jacquesm 16y agoThat's pretty clever actually! Is this a real product? If so how does it compare for number of insertions versus 'regular' USB plugs? Is this a large enough advantage to justify the additional costs?
- sparky 16y ago>>Is this a real product? Nope. This site features user-submitted designs. >>If so how does it compare for number of insertions versus 'regular' USB plugs? Signal integrity would concern me too. Getting USB HS to work right at the maximum allowed cable length is no BS as-is. The diagrams aren't clear enough to show exactly where the two contact layers are or how they're connected, but two divided sets of contacts can kill your SI in a hurry. As an aside: why, oh why, didn't they make the USB A connector obviously keyed? I'd estimate many lifetimes have collectively been spent trying to shove in perfectly rectangular connectors the wrong way. It should be shaped like a house (a thinner version of the B connector amenable to thin devices) or an arrowhead or something.
- jmaygarden 16y agoUltraTek makes something similar: http://www.flipperusb.com/ http://www.flipperusb.com/
- jorgem 16y agoMaybe the author of the article could be hired to redo the flipperusb site.
- jmaygarden 16y agoThey should hire somebody to do it. It is atrocious!
- trafficlight 16y agoI don't know, it's got a nice "As Seen on TV" feel.
- Zak 16y ago
- dylan62 16y agoI've always wondered why the USB port is the way it is. It seems such an unbelievably stupid design, but I assume there must be a reason for it. Does anyone have a link, or brief explanation? Incidentally a search for "why is the usb port such a stupid design?" (without the quotes) brings up nothing remotely relevant on any of the major search engines. Strange.
- jjcm 16y agoI'd love to see a more natural feeling interface. Why, for instance, can't we have magsafe-esque connector for USB? Or hell, maybe even a TRS connector (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS_connector http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS_connector) with 2 or 3 additional ring contacts? Seems like both would be much more user friendly.
- mikey_p 16y agoAnything in the TRS configuration is prone to shorting when connecting/disconnecting. Not at al suitable for an interface that includes powered conductors.
- mturmon 16y agoMagsafe is patented by Apple: http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=7311526.PN.&OS=PN/7311526&RS=PN/7311526 http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Se... That's why docking stations don't have Magsafe connections.
- sliverstorm 16y agoProbably because it's just really, really simple. Short of audio jacks, it's one of the simplest computer plugs in existence. That's a good thing when you're trying to achieve universal adoption.
- Murkin 16y agoI wonder how that explains the over-complex multi-layer protocol. (Go look up OTG) Or maybe because USB-IF is built of committees made up by (mostly) the least productive people in given large organizations.
- ghshephard 16y agoWell, after 10+ years of using USB widgets of every shape, size, and color - I just discovered from reading the article that the USB symbol is always on the top side. So, I certainly got my value out of HN today. :-)
- bockris 16y agoExcept when the device makers mount them vertically or upside down.
- ax0n 16y agoExactment. Also, people damage the heads and/or the jack by trying to insert them the wrong way? Either the plug slides in gently, or it doesn't budge.
- marshray 16y agoWhat? You didn't notice the mark clearly embossed in black plastic on the black plastic background while holding it in the illuminated space between the back of your computer and the wall? Or maybe yours doesn't have a mark at all like the mouse I'm using now. Or maybe it has one mark on one side and a slightly different mark on the other. Who came up with this stupid idea anyway of making a plug that looks and feels to the fingers completely symmetrical externally yet is definitely oriented in its insertion? Why are we still using it? I went to buy a USB cable for charging something the other day. It seems I bought a micro instead of a mini USB end, or vice versa. Really guys. What we needed was a smaller RJ45 without the plastic tab thingy that breaks off. HDMI isn't doing nearly so bad.
- jws 16y agoCome on, it's right there in section 6.5.1 of the specification which you'd know if you searched the web, downloaded 11MB of data, unzipped it and sorted through it for the "Universal Serial Bus Specification Revision 2.0", then read all 622 pages of that. 6.5.1 USB Icon Location The USB Icon is embossed, in a recessed area, on the topside of the USB plug. This provides easy user recognition and facilitates alignment during the mating process. And from this I learn that all my Apple keyboards and mice are non-compliant devices since their marks are painted on rather than embossed into the connector. I'll have to replace them.
- 51Cards 16y agoVery cool but here's my initial concern. When the set of four contacts are flipped over on top of themselves their order will be reversed and that leads to a potential for a short. The center two pins being data aren't as big of a deal but the outside pins, namely the +5 and ground would be opposite each other and quite close. Since the surface they are mounted on slides, it could potentially also wiggle up and down. Careful engineering would be required to ensure these don't come into contact, which would make a nice little short to blow out one of your USB ports. I would consider putting a sliding plate between the two contact plates to keep the two sides separated. It would be pushed back no matter which direction it was inserted exposing the correct set of contacts.
- nitrogen 16y agoUSB ports are probably current limited, so it's unlikely that a momentary short will burn them out. However, dissipating 2.5-4W (depending on the port's power capability) through a few small components will cause them to heat up over time, which may burn out the port.
- jws 16y agoUSB ports are supposed to be current limited. Given that those components cost money to buy and money to place… I think we know where low end equipment vendors are going to end up.
- marshray 16y agoI'd expect current limiting to be a feature of even the cheapest USB interface ICs. It's really easy to test and potentially a short-circuit/fire hazard. Not the kind of thing any testing lab would be likely to overlook.
- jws 16y agoYou'd think. But the cheapest interface ICs only deal with the data lines. You have to go to extra effort to control the 5V line. It isn't trivial. You want to flow 100mA without dropping your 5V source much, because the USB device is still expecting it to be 5V.
- colanderman 16y agoI've always wondered, why aren't USB connectors designed to be able to be inserted either way? Does having 4 contacts vs 8 really save all that much money?
- 51Cards 16y agoAgreed, they should just be like a firewire plug that is bidirectional (ie. not tapered at one end) with the 4 pins repeated on each side. Much better design.
- Samuel_Michon 16y agoFireWire plugs only fit one way, just like USB. Yet, one of FireWire's advantages is that the connector doesn't have a fully symmetrical shape, that makes it more obvious how to insert the plug. Users don't even have to look, they can feel which side is narrowest or has a dent on one side (depending on the type of FireWire plug). http://pinouts.ru/connector/4_pin,_6_pin_or_9_pin_IEEE1394_FireWire_plug_connector.shtml http://pinouts.ru/connector/4_pin,_6_pin_or_9_pin_IEEE1394_F...
- 51Cards 16y agoI should have made that wording clearer... by "like a firewire plug that is bidirectional (ie. not tapered)" I mean a symmetrically shaped firewire "style" plug, only with the same pins arrayed down each side... so no matter how you plug it in it's correct.
- CWIZO 16y agoI also never understood this design decision. I can't count how many times I struggled to plug something in at the back of a PC in a poorly lit room. They should really start making this and it should become the standard.
- sliverstorm 16y agoMy other wish has always been 'uni-sex' USB plugs, but I don't know if you can easily have both 'uni-sex' and invertible together.
- efields 16y agoFTFY: A USB plug that goes both ways A word gets the 'an' article based on pronunciation, not the mere fact that it starts with a vowel. Say it: "a you es bee" See? It has a consonant sound so 'a' sounds better.
- confuzatron 16y agoOh I see, my account's comments dont show up for anyone else. Nice!
- BrandonM 16y agoThe author is pretty obviously either a non-western or a non-native English speaker. Read some of the picture captions.
- akavlie 16y agoOh wow, this is spectacular. I can't tell you how many times I've done this: - USB plug doesn't fit. Must be wrong way. Switch! - Still doesn't fit. REALLY doesn't fit. Must have been the other way around. Switch again! - Finagle it a bit more than the first try. OK, fits now.
- jws 16y agoYou forgot: - stop trying to push it into power connector - stick it in RJ-45 hole, that doesn't feel right
- jjcm 16y agoSmart, but I wonder how robust it is. With a sliding mechanism that small that's going to be constantly barraged with fumbling fingers, will it be able to stand the test of time? Something tells me it'll go the way of floppy disks - accidentally mangled springs, which will make the user have to toss it and get a new one. The major difference being that USB cables don't come in packs of 10.
- Semiapies 16y agoIt has the lowest robustness possible: it's some student's design project and doesn't even physically exist. All the illustrations are renders or bad composites.
- jjcm 16y agoI'm aware, but that doesn't mean I can't question the robustness of the (hypothetical) final interface. If a man looks at a blueprint and asks, "will it work?" he's not asking if the ink on paper has structural integrity - he's asking about the final product.
- Semiapies 16y agoThis isn't even a blueprint, though. It's a concept piece. You can make vague judgments about it, but the truth is that people here wondering whether this would be practical is probably the closest to actual engineering that this design has gone. I wouldn't worry much about robustness - it's not certain that this would even work in the first place.
- richbradshaw 16y agoWho still uses USB regularly enough to feel this is a problem? Memory sticks are irrelevant in todays Gb ethernet as standard world, printers are wireless or networked, scanners don't exist for all intents and purposes, mice and keyboards are bluetooth... the list goes on!
- cookiecaper 16y agoAlmost everyone still uses USB as the baseline for almost everything. Few people use Bluetooth mice or keyboards. Networked scanners and printers are expensive when compared with USB appliances. Gb network is only standard on high-end components, most are still 10/100. USB drives are the most common form of data transfer because of the assurance that they will be compatible with most machines.
- Waywocket 16y ago>USB drives are the most common form of data transfer because of the assurance that they will be compatible with most machines. At $orkplace I have the 'opportunity' to see how non-technical folks work - In the last three years floppies seem to have finally died out, though there are still a few holdouts who will burn to CD-R rather than using one of those newfangled USBthingamies. Those of us who breathe the internet tend to forget that we live in a world vastly different to that of a large proportion of the population.
- IChrisI 16y agoUSB drives are also good for storing changing files that need to be moved between work and home. You can burn more files to a CD but that takes more than 30 seconds,
- athom 16y agoA company where I used to work got paranoid about its employees walking out the door with its precious intellectual property on those things, and installed something called 'Hibun' to prevent just that. From then on, anyone who "needed" to move data to a USB drive had to use one specially made for the Hibun system, and a "key" to permit transfer in a form that could only be read on another "authorized" computer. That was... fun.
- mikeklaas 16y agoThe preamble that talks about how USB is increasingly important in our lives is hilarious: typical hyperbolic introduction to student projects that try and fail to justify the importance of the project. It is especially funny because it falls back on the "increasingly important" trope, when it is not only false but subsumed by a far better argument: USB is ubiquitous.
- phlux 16y agoYup, you could sum it all and simpl say: "With the ubiquity of USB, here is a plug design that makes connecting more hassle free {pictures}" HOWEVER, This guy has been beat to the punch by guys at CES this year. There was a guy handing out samples of a USB adapter that you plug into any existing USB cable and i does what this guys design does, except it doesnt have any moving parts. Rather than the sliding plastic thing, it is simply the contact board center-mounted in the metal shroud, regardless of which way you plug it, it works. My buddy ordered 1000 to give away to customers.
- handcoding 16y agoDo you have the contact info for this company? I'd surely order a dozen just for around the house.
- StavrosK 16y agoI read a poignant comment on YouTube (I know, I know) the other day: "I have a theory, that USB cables have three sides: Wrong side A, wrong side B and right side. Geometry would tell us that the first side would be the same as the third one, but I know the truth."
- jedc 16y agoThat reminds me of a saying that we used religiously back in the Navy: "50/50/90". If you have a 50/50 chance of making a correct decision, you'll get it wrong 90% of the time.
- eru 16y agoThat's what coins are good for.
- tedunangst 16y agoThe chances are only 50/50 before you decide. After making your choice, the state collapses to 90% wrong.
- eru 16y agoThat's why you don't decide. It's called a mixed strategy. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategy_(game_theory)#Mixed_strategy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategy_(game_theory)#Mixed_st...)
- ekanes 16y agoI watch this in action every time I ask my four year-old which is his right or left hand. Poor little dude gets it wrong almost every time.
- JacobAldridge 16y agoI still get it wrong most of the time. Weirdly, I know my Port from my Starboard, so that lesson was wired into me properly.
- russell 16y agoOK kids, quit the bellyaching. There is only one way to get a USB cable wrong, even if you get it wrong 90% of the time. Remember the PS2. It came with round DIN connectors. There was only one right way to plug it in, but an indefinite number of wrong ways to try it. And we had to do it uphill...in the snow.
- s3graham 16y agoPS/2 connectors were actually more usable because you could apply light pressure and then without looking, spin it from side to side, and then push in when it "docked".
- moomba 16y agoThis great new product will revolutionize the way we input usb cables into our laptops. I would compare its significance to being somewhere between curing polio and ending apartheid in South Africa.
- marknutter 16y agoHad the inventors of USB just made it a trapezoid or some other asymmetrical shape this all could have been avoided.
- kabdib 16y agoThe USB 2.0 spec says that connectors have to stand up to 1,500 plug/unplugs. I know people who have worn out their connectors. It's not a common problem, but . . . surely we can do better. Too bad we can't get power over optical connects. Practical amounts of it, I mean.
- icegreentea 16y agoMini and micro USB (and I presume USB 3.0) are all rated for much more plug cycles. I'm sure most USB 2.0 plugs made now are actually rated for much more than 1500, but you can't exactly go about changing the spec now can you?
- fanf2 16y agoMini USB has about the same robustness as big USB. It is micro USB that is much more robust, which is one of the reasons it was chosen for the European phone charger standard.
- orijing 16y ago"The double USB has two contact layers which are both sketchy" What does that mean?
- ryanf 16y ago"Stretchy", not "sketchy". I'm not sure what that means either though.
- sgt 16y agoHe should patent this.
- thushan 16y agoI never understood why plugs like that needed to go a certain way. On a technical standpoint, yes, I get that the leads need to be oriented in such a way, but why design it so people have to think about it? Apple's mag safe connector is a perfect example of how plugs should work - it does not require anyone to think about what the correct orientation is. Same with magnetic stripe readers for credit cards and transit passes. At this point, that reading technology is so ridiculously cheap that there should be no reason why we can't put in four different sensors so that it doesn't matter what orientation you swipe a card with.
- regularfry 16y agoBecause the physical spec was dreamt up by electrical engineers, perhaps? I can cut them a little slack because they had to spec something everyone in the consortium could manufacture for peanuts, but not much. The USB plug is far from the worst connector design out there. My favourite is the audio jack, where you are guaranteed to short the signal lines to earth on connection and disconnection. Really smart, that one...
- kenkam 16y agoGreat design, although I doubt anyone will seriously benefit from it. Why not just plug it in where the USB symbol is on top? How does this solve anything?
- regularfry 16y agoYour comment amounts to "Why can't people know everything and never make mistakes?" I hope you see the problem with that.
- JBiserkov 16y agoReminds me of Microsoft's Instaload design for batteries: "The two batteries can be inserted in any of the four possible orientations as shown above and the device works." Source: http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/licensing/instaloadoverview.mspx http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/licensing... HN Discussion http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1480059 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1480059
- 9ec4c12949a4f3 16y agoI'm really sorry, but I have to link to this. http://ethnicity.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/Writing/a.html http://ethnicity.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/Writing/a.html An/a is not based on vowels, but phonetics.
- dlevine 16y agoI feel like the problem is often the opposite one. I'm plugging a USB device into the back of my PC, and can't see the direction that the USB port is facing. Some of the motherboard shields sit out far enough that, even if you look back there, you can't really see whether it's pointing up or down. Maybe it's always consistent, but I don't have an intuitive sense for that. I would definitely pay $1 or $2 extra for cables that can be plugged in from either direction.
- bitwize 16y ago"An USB"? Do you pronounce it uss-buh?