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Ok lets break this down. Its not similar to Brexit, United kingdom is a union of different countries, Spain is a single country. The UK allowed a referendum b

Ok lets break this down. Its not similar to Brexit, United kingdom is a union of different countries, Spain is a single country. The UK allowed a referendum because it has to. Spain voted its constitution in 1978, that means most of the voters are still alive and it got ratified in every community including Barcelona. So there are people protesting now that the constitution does not imminently allow a referendum that voted in favour of that clause being there 40 years ago. They got prosecuted for crimes such as sedecion, which is like treason light, and misuse of public funds. I dont see how German murder charges are relevant here. Politicians misusing taxes should be heavily punished regardless of country, corruption is eroding the already fragile public sector and safety net we have. Also Spain is a democracy, if they want a referendum all the have to do is find the votes for it in national parliment. Join with the basque and galician sececionists. Find allies in far left groups who affect self determination by identitarian groups, and vote it. What you cannot claim is that 51% of Catalans = democracy and 66% of Spanish congress = not democracy. They are simply thresholds, and Spain is more stingent than most. But i would argue 66% avoids Brexit like votes so it is preferable in the age of internet manipulation where hitting vulnerable masses of people is accesible through Cambridge analytica type election manipulation.

kuroikyu 7y ago
> The UK allowed a referendum because it has to. Spain voted its constitution in 1978, that means most of the voters are still alive and it got ratified in every community including Barcelona. So there are people protesting now that the constitution does not imminently allow a referendum that voted in favour of that clause being there 40 years ago. You mean the same vote where people could chose whether to apply that constitution or continue living in a dictatorship? Ah yes, if that's not democracy I don't know what is!
- Arkhaine_kupo 7y ago
  Those where not the only two options. That was the fear and one of the reasons it got voted so effusively. But other regions like the Basque Country refused to give up territorial and historical rights like their tax charter which they have had for ages. Catalunya did not get special treatment, did not negociate any special treatment, and their retconning of history into "we were bullied into this deal ages ago and now we are oppresed" is objectively false. They are one of the most prosperous regions in Spain, the constitution voters are quite alive and until the last couple years they had no real claim of interference of the central goverment in their affairs. Spain allows for constitutional reform so its not like the dictatorship or constitution choice was an end all of debate. It simply that the threashold for Spain to allow changes to the constitution are 66% of Spanish goverment. So I have a hard time seeing how 51% of Catalans = democracy 66% of Spain = oppresion. Both seem democratic, now the question is who gets to vote and how many votes you need. But that doesn't make it less democratic, it might be unfair but thats a completely different topic.
pjc50 7y ago
> The UK allowed a referendum because it has to No? There was no "has to" involved anywhere, it was a choice of the central government to permit it. Referendums are extremely rare in the UK until recently, and all run on an adhoc basis.

kuroikyu 7y ago

> The UK allowed a referendum because it has to. Spain voted its constitution in 1978, that means most of the voters are still alive and it got ratified in every community including Barcelona. So there are people protesting now that the constitution does not imminently allow a referendum that voted in favour of that clause being there 40 years ago. You mean the same vote where people could chose whether to apply that constitution or continue living in a dictatorship? Ah yes, if that's not democracy I don't know what is!

Arkhaine_kupo 7y ago
Those where not the only two options. That was the fear and one of the reasons it got voted so effusively. But other regions like the Basque Country refused to give up territorial and historical rights like their tax charter which they have had for ages. Catalunya did not get special treatment, did not negociate any special treatment, and their retconning of history into "we were bullied into this deal ages ago and now we are oppresed" is objectively false. They are one of the most prosperous regions in Spain, the constitution voters are quite alive and until the last couple years they had no real claim of interference of the central goverment in their affairs. Spain allows for constitutional reform so its not like the dictatorship or constitution choice was an end all of debate. It simply that the threashold for Spain to allow changes to the constitution are 66% of Spanish goverment. So I have a hard time seeing how 51% of Catalans = democracy 66% of Spain = oppresion. Both seem democratic, now the question is who gets to vote and how many votes you need. But that doesn't make it less democratic, it might be unfair but thats a completely different topic.

pjc50 7y ago

> The UK allowed a referendum because it has to No? There was no "has to" involved anywhere, it was a choice of the central government to permit it. Referendums are extremely rare in the UK until recently, and all run on an adhoc basis.