6 ms·

What should really be praised... Without further, congratulations to everyone protesting against this gitlab move. This is something that should be done years b

by stiray 7y ago

What should really be praised... Without further, congratulations to everyone protesting against this gitlab move. This is something that should be done years back when google started with its tracking, same with facebook. This was the behaviour that should be seen each and every time some company wants to take advantage of its users. But to my sadness it is rarely seen. So once again congratulations to each and every gitlab user that did anything against their move.

brlewis 7y ago
Yeah, people back then should have written angry replies to Google's and Facebook's advance warnings about the tracking they were planning on doing. /s
- journalctl 7y ago
  Oh, so we only live in a surveillance-capitalist state because we didn’t send Facebook and Google enough emails? D’oh! Who knew it was that simple?
  - reactor4 7y ago
    read it again...
tjoff 7y ago
It was done. There even was those small banners that said something in the way of "if you have gmail I won't mail you" etc. Thing is, the broader public don't care. The difference between gitlab and gmail is primarily that developers care more about this stuff and value their code more than most people care about their email. They are also much more informed in the matter, most using gmail haven't got a clue.
- z92 7y ago
  There's a difference between gitlab and gmail. People pay for gitlab while gmail is free. Google can easily declare "either you take it for what it is, or leave." Gitlab can't.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - derf_ 7y ago
    A lot of institutions used to run their own e-mail. Over the years I've watched as my e-mail addresses (both universities and my current employer) have been replaced by Gmail on the backend. All of them stopped being willing to manage e-mail themselves. None of them were willing to use a less surveillance-oriented provider. That choice wasn't made by consumers. It was made by the same kind of informed IT people. I suspect it wasn't free, either.
    - hunter2_ 7y ago
      For universities, it actually is free (as in beer), aside from the university staff's compensation toward the migration.
    - godzillabrennus 7y ago
      I remember when Dartmouth ran blitz mail... when google talk supported jabber... when people complained mostly about MAPI... It’s a shame that so many innovations are being squashed in communication because of the “free” price for cloud solutions. Google is learning so much about students thanks to this program.
      - red_admiral 7y ago
        I thought the main problem with e-mail specifically was spam, and the reputation model that's arisen to combat it: a medium-sized university running their own e-mail service runs a risk of getting their domain blacklisted, if a few accounts are compromised and start sending out mass mailings.
  - hunter2_ 7y ago
    Both are freemium. However, there's slight truthiness in your claim by way of the difference in probability that any given non-business user pays.
  - 7y ago
- open-source-ux 7y ago
  "...developers care more about this stuff..." No, they only care when the tools they are using are targeted. Otherwise, they couldn't care less. We have tracking on websites and in apps on an industrial scale - built by developers in technology companies. We even have tracking of school kids courtesy of ChromeOS. When have developers ever shown any care about that? When have they ever spoken out about that? They're more likely to rush to defend that software and the company that built it: It's not being used to build profiles, or the data is aggregated and anonymous. Presumably, if GitLab tracked behaviour 'anonymously' and in aggregate form, that would all be fine? Didn't think so. The hypocrisy that runs through the programming profession when it comes to online tracking really knows no end.
  - scotth 7y ago
    If I had a guarantee from Gitlab that _they_ were scrubbing the data, I would have no problem. I get the sense they know what they're doing (naive, maybe) However, giving a third party script, potentially unvetted, access to the crown jewels of the company I work for? No fucking way. Different. Not a double standard.
    - TeMPOraL 7y ago
      They are tracking things anonymously at least in some places, judging by what I've read in the linked Gitlab issue tracker threads. The debacle started with someone higher up requesting to start recording user ID with that data, in order for the "growth team" to be able to do "experiments".
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
imglorp 7y ago
It's a tiny SaaS that depends on customer good will. A few hundred pings did the job because we matter. If only this worked with giant corps. FB has around 2.4 billion MAU and a few nerd rants won't be noticed the next time they screw the user and a handful complain.
- xxs 7y ago
  >'tiny' Goldman Sachs valued it close to $3b.
matz1 7y ago
If you want to ban tracking, I would totally oppose it. I think its great that google manage to make money out of my personal data, and in return I get to use their of free service. Fortunately, in the regards of google user, there are more people who are fine (or don't care) with tracking.
- throwawayhhakdl 7y ago
  What google services do you think would not continue to be free if they couldn’t mine your personal data?
- hunter2_ 7y ago
  The ability for people to have amazing technology and spend no currency on it is, in my opinion, a net positive for the world. But it would be nice if there were some provable toggle switch to choose between paying with data and paying with currency, for those who prefer the latter. Since proof is problematic, carefully selecting your vendor is the toggle switch, and that kind of switching unfortunately has switching costs including the massive inconvenience when, say, using an Android phone without a Google account.
tomnipotent 7y ago
> same with facebook There was a huge uproar when Facebook first launched "Beacon", and it was cancelled as a result. Unfortunately it just morphed into the Facebook Platform and eventually the Pixel. Same pig with different lipstick.
piokoch 7y ago
Frankly I can understand that ads selling company like Google wants to track its users. Their core business depends on that. Why Gitlab wanted to do this I have no idea, sounds like some marketing people came up with such idea "because everyone is doing this"? Tracking wasn't going to bring much revenue, if any, so they could just get rid of that, trying to turn it into some positive PR. The cynic in me tells me that if they smell any significant money from tracking they would tell HN and the rest to back off (or would added some convoluted way to opt-out from tracking).

by stiray 7y ago

brlewis 7y ago

Yeah, people back then should have written angry replies to Google's and Facebook's advance warnings about the tracking they were planning on doing. /s

journalctl 7y ago
Oh, so we only live in a surveillance-capitalist state because we didn’t send Facebook and Google enough emails? D’oh! Who knew it was that simple?
- reactor4 7y ago
  read it again...

tjoff 7y ago

It was done. There even was those small banners that said something in the way of "if you have gmail I won't mail you" etc. Thing is, the broader public don't care. The difference between gitlab and gmail is primarily that developers care more about this stuff and value their code more than most people care about their email. They are also much more informed in the matter, most using gmail haven't got a clue.

z92 7y ago
There's a difference between gitlab and gmail. People pay for gitlab while gmail is free. Google can easily declare "either you take it for what it is, or leave." Gitlab can't.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- derf_ 7y ago
  A lot of institutions used to run their own e-mail. Over the years I've watched as my e-mail addresses (both universities and my current employer) have been replaced by Gmail on the backend. All of them stopped being willing to manage e-mail themselves. None of them were willing to use a less surveillance-oriented provider. That choice wasn't made by consumers. It was made by the same kind of informed IT people. I suspect it wasn't free, either.
  - hunter2_ 7y ago
    For universities, it actually is free (as in beer), aside from the university staff's compensation toward the migration.
  - godzillabrennus 7y ago
    I remember when Dartmouth ran blitz mail... when google talk supported jabber... when people complained mostly about MAPI... It’s a shame that so many innovations are being squashed in communication because of the “free” price for cloud solutions. Google is learning so much about students thanks to this program.
    - red_admiral 7y ago
      I thought the main problem with e-mail specifically was spam, and the reputation model that's arisen to combat it: a medium-sized university running their own e-mail service runs a risk of getting their domain blacklisted, if a few accounts are compromised and start sending out mass mailings.
- hunter2_ 7y ago
  Both are freemium. However, there's slight truthiness in your claim by way of the difference in probability that any given non-business user pays.
- 7y ago
open-source-ux 7y ago
"...developers care more about this stuff..." No, they only care when the tools they are using are targeted. Otherwise, they couldn't care less. We have tracking on websites and in apps on an industrial scale - built by developers in technology companies. We even have tracking of school kids courtesy of ChromeOS. When have developers ever shown any care about that? When have they ever spoken out about that? They're more likely to rush to defend that software and the company that built it: It's not being used to build profiles, or the data is aggregated and anonymous. Presumably, if GitLab tracked behaviour 'anonymously' and in aggregate form, that would all be fine? Didn't think so. The hypocrisy that runs through the programming profession when it comes to online tracking really knows no end.
- scotth 7y ago
  If I had a guarantee from Gitlab that _they_ were scrubbing the data, I would have no problem. I get the sense they know what they're doing (naive, maybe) However, giving a third party script, potentially unvetted, access to the crown jewels of the company I work for? No fucking way. Different. Not a double standard.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    They are tracking things anonymously at least in some places, judging by what I've read in the linked Gitlab issue tracker threads. The debacle started with someone higher up requesting to start recording user ID with that data, in order for the "growth team" to be able to do "experiments".
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]

imglorp 7y ago

It's a tiny SaaS that depends on customer good will. A few hundred pings did the job because we matter. If only this worked with giant corps. FB has around 2.4 billion MAU and a few nerd rants won't be noticed the next time they screw the user and a handful complain.

xxs 7y ago
>'tiny' Goldman Sachs valued it close to $3b.

matz1 7y ago

If you want to ban tracking, I would totally oppose it. I think its great that google manage to make money out of my personal data, and in return I get to use their of free service. Fortunately, in the regards of google user, there are more people who are fine (or don't care) with tracking.

throwawayhhakdl 7y ago
What google services do you think would not continue to be free if they couldn’t mine your personal data?
hunter2_ 7y ago
The ability for people to have amazing technology and spend no currency on it is, in my opinion, a net positive for the world. But it would be nice if there were some provable toggle switch to choose between paying with data and paying with currency, for those who prefer the latter. Since proof is problematic, carefully selecting your vendor is the toggle switch, and that kind of switching unfortunately has switching costs including the massive inconvenience when, say, using an Android phone without a Google account.

tomnipotent 7y ago

> same with facebook There was a huge uproar when Facebook first launched "Beacon", and it was cancelled as a result. Unfortunately it just morphed into the Facebook Platform and eventually the Pixel. Same pig with different lipstick.

piokoch 7y ago

Frankly I can understand that ads selling company like Google wants to track its users. Their core business depends on that. Why Gitlab wanted to do this I have no idea, sounds like some marketing people came up with such idea "because everyone is doing this"? Tracking wasn't going to bring much revenue, if any, so they could just get rid of that, trying to turn it into some positive PR. The cynic in me tells me that if they smell any significant money from tracking they would tell HN and the rest to back off (or would added some convoluted way to opt-out from tracking).