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> As a business owner if I am required to pay my workers at minimum 15$ an hour I will need to off set the impact to my bottom line. Honest question, if you're

> As a business owner if I am required to pay my workers at minimum 15$ an hour I will need to off set the impact to my bottom line. Honest question, if you're still profitable (and I read this as implying you are), why do you need to offset it, or offset it aggressively? Sure, if it becomes extremely tight to not-profitable, that isn't good and would need rectified, but again, your comment doesn't come off like that.

UserIsUnused 7y ago
Because if it doesn't bring the profit he's used to, or if he can't have the same quality of life, he might as well fire everybody and close rather than putting more hours in a restaurant, which by experience I can tell you is one of the most stressful business. In fact, there are studies that confirm my personal experience anecdote. Being profitable is not the same as leading a decent business, and decent quality of life.
- dangerface 7y ago
  This happens and some one else who is willing to put in the work will take their place, thats the reality of capitalism. Why should we protect employers from this reality while their employees are left to struggle?
  - UserIsUnused 7y ago
    I was not arguing pro or against the raise, I was explaining why an owner of a business that is still profitable might close.
squeaky-clean 7y ago
I'm not a business owner but wouldn't anyone feel that way? If the government put out a web developer tax that took 30% of my salary, yeah it'd still be fairly high but I would move to embedded development or something else that pays more after the tax.
- ilikehurdles 7y ago
  Switching costs aren't free.
kop316 7y ago
As a thought, profitable can have a lot of variance. If my "profit" means I only make minimum wage when all is said and done, why would I bother owning a business? The staffing costs account for a lot of a businesses expense (#1 or #2 depending on rent costs), so an increase in staff costs could changes "make healthy living" to "barely make more than the workers". I would hope that the business owner is making more than the workers, that is the person taking the risk on the business, and most likely putting in a lot more time/effort to keep it profitable.
zer0faith 7y ago
Money is the fuel that feeds the evolution of your business it allows your to expand, grow, change, and hire different caliber of workers. As the business grows it allows you to have more capital to pay your employees and hire more people. If you have costs that you can't offset... Your workers are your responsibility, they feed their families with the pay check they are provided. (Speaking from a holistic view) If you can't offset costs, that means you possibly can't provide them the same pay check or bonus they've been getting. Essentially, this ends up being one of those good of the many outweighs the good of the few.
Cederfjard 7y ago
Running a business often means longer hours, more financial risk, and other additional burdens compared to being employed by someone. If the returns aren't commensurate, why do it? Better to quit, go to a 9-5 and get some of your life back.
- anotherman554 7y ago
  And sometimes it means none of those things, and you just spend other people's (investors) money.
- jhbadger 7y ago
  Because even if you have to work longer and have the other burdens, the job is nicer than being the guy who has to wash dishes or make fries. Not everything is about getting more money. It's the same argument in regard to "why get a graduate degree if you don't make that much more money afterwards?"
  - UserIsUnused 7y ago
    Are you a business owner?
snarf21 7y ago
So who gets to decide how much profit this person is allowed to make? Maybe he wants to save for his kids college or against a recession? He is taking the risks (leases, capital tie up, etc.) he should be allowed to decide his payout. Most restaurants run super lean and have high failure rates. The long term effect of these laws is yet to be seen. It is also unclear to me why we expect an unskilled worker at McDonald's putting fries into a basket to make a "living wage". These jobs are largely for students, retirees and other temporary workers. A high minimum wage isn't the way to end poverty, no taxes under $60K, needs based UBI and other tax incentives are much better options. The issue is that business that employ unskilled labor will tend to raise prices but rich people don't shop at WalMart; poor people do. So great, they make more but their buying power may have actually gone down. This is the conundrum. Everyone wants $40/hour unskilled manufacturing jobs making throwaway products that they can buy at the dollar store. You can't have it both ways. People really want buying power, not necessarily higher wages.
- coldpie 7y ago
  > It is also unclear to me why we expect an unskilled worker at McDonald's putting fries into a basket to make a "living wage". These jobs are largely for students, retirees and other temporary workers. This is utter nonsense and insulting. Go talk to people who actually work those jobs. These people are adults, just like you are, and they deserve to be treated with dignity. If you don't pay them a living wage, then the government will have to make up the gap. Is that your goal?
  - snarf21 7y ago
    I'm not insulting anyone. I actually worked these jobs in the past. I know the people personally. And yes, if you read what I posted, I explicitly stated that the government needs to make up the gap. We can tax high wage earners and redistribute the money to them directly without immediately raising the prices at the stores they use. So I'm saying I'll personally pay more taxes to help raise these people out of poverty. I think that is treating people with dignity, apparently you disagree.
    - 7y ago

UserIsUnused 7y ago

Because if it doesn't bring the profit he's used to, or if he can't have the same quality of life, he might as well fire everybody and close rather than putting more hours in a restaurant, which by experience I can tell you is one of the most stressful business. In fact, there are studies that confirm my personal experience anecdote. Being profitable is not the same as leading a decent business, and decent quality of life.

dangerface 7y ago
This happens and some one else who is willing to put in the work will take their place, thats the reality of capitalism. Why should we protect employers from this reality while their employees are left to struggle?
- UserIsUnused 7y ago
  I was not arguing pro or against the raise, I was explaining why an owner of a business that is still profitable might close.

squeaky-clean 7y ago

I'm not a business owner but wouldn't anyone feel that way? If the government put out a web developer tax that took 30% of my salary, yeah it'd still be fairly high but I would move to embedded development or something else that pays more after the tax.

ilikehurdles 7y ago
Switching costs aren't free.

kop316 7y ago

As a thought, profitable can have a lot of variance. If my "profit" means I only make minimum wage when all is said and done, why would I bother owning a business? The staffing costs account for a lot of a businesses expense (#1 or #2 depending on rent costs), so an increase in staff costs could changes "make healthy living" to "barely make more than the workers". I would hope that the business owner is making more than the workers, that is the person taking the risk on the business, and most likely putting in a lot more time/effort to keep it profitable.

zer0faith 7y ago

Money is the fuel that feeds the evolution of your business it allows your to expand, grow, change, and hire different caliber of workers. As the business grows it allows you to have more capital to pay your employees and hire more people. If you have costs that you can't offset... Your workers are your responsibility, they feed their families with the pay check they are provided. (Speaking from a holistic view) If you can't offset costs, that means you possibly can't provide them the same pay check or bonus they've been getting. Essentially, this ends up being one of those good of the many outweighs the good of the few.

Cederfjard 7y ago

Running a business often means longer hours, more financial risk, and other additional burdens compared to being employed by someone. If the returns aren't commensurate, why do it? Better to quit, go to a 9-5 and get some of your life back.

anotherman554 7y ago
And sometimes it means none of those things, and you just spend other people's (investors) money.
jhbadger 7y ago
Because even if you have to work longer and have the other burdens, the job is nicer than being the guy who has to wash dishes or make fries. Not everything is about getting more money. It's the same argument in regard to "why get a graduate degree if you don't make that much more money afterwards?"
- UserIsUnused 7y ago
  Are you a business owner?

snarf21 7y ago

So who gets to decide how much profit this person is allowed to make? Maybe he wants to save for his kids college or against a recession? He is taking the risks (leases, capital tie up, etc.) he should be allowed to decide his payout. Most restaurants run super lean and have high failure rates. The long term effect of these laws is yet to be seen. It is also unclear to me why we expect an unskilled worker at McDonald's putting fries into a basket to make a "living wage". These jobs are largely for students, retirees and other temporary workers. A high minimum wage isn't the way to end poverty, no taxes under $60K, needs based UBI and other tax incentives are much better options. The issue is that business that employ unskilled labor will tend to raise prices but rich people don't shop at WalMart; poor people do. So great, they make more but their buying power may have actually gone down. This is the conundrum. Everyone wants $40/hour unskilled manufacturing jobs making throwaway products that they can buy at the dollar store. You can't have it both ways. People really want buying power, not necessarily higher wages.

coldpie 7y ago
> It is also unclear to me why we expect an unskilled worker at McDonald's putting fries into a basket to make a "living wage". These jobs are largely for students, retirees and other temporary workers. This is utter nonsense and insulting. Go talk to people who actually work those jobs. These people are adults, just like you are, and they deserve to be treated with dignity. If you don't pay them a living wage, then the government will have to make up the gap. Is that your goal?
- snarf21 7y ago
  I'm not insulting anyone. I actually worked these jobs in the past. I know the people personally. And yes, if you read what I posted, I explicitly stated that the government needs to make up the gap. We can tax high wage earners and redistribute the money to them directly without immediately raising the prices at the stores they use. So I'm saying I'll personally pay more taxes to help raise these people out of poverty. I think that is treating people with dignity, apparently you disagree.
  - 7y ago