5 ms·

Personally, regardless of manufacturer or developer, i wait a few months before a major upgrade to give them enough time to fix bugs. I do the same when it come

Personally, regardless of manufacturer or developer, i wait a few months before a major upgrade to give them enough time to fix bugs. I do the same when it comes to cars, mobile devices, and operating systems. However there does seem to be a pattern of regressions in apple’s products (i put on hold buying a mac pro simply because its specs are very low for the price, the gap being much higher than usual). What i would do is ask employees what they prefer. Accounting might favour windows, while developers or sysadmins might prefer linux (let them chose the flavour). If your company is non technical the windows might be the only alternative. But either way, breaking away from a single vendor is a good idea.

mkorfmann 7y ago
The plan is for Apple to be more excellent, so that immediate updating is the default.
mister_hn 7y ago
when you buy new hardware, you have already the new versions of OS. You don't have a choice
- ossworkerrights 7y ago
  There is also that indeed, sadly.
- sivers 7y ago
  Yep. That was my Catalina frustration, too. My phone broke last week so I bought an iPhone 11. My Mac wouldn't connect/sync with it unless I upgraded to Catalina. So I upgraded to Catalina, and now all of the software I used on Mac doesn't work at all. (iZotope Audio editing, Native Instruments, Cubase, Audacity, and more. None of it works in Catalina.) Catalina also makes my Mac Mini not recognize my LG monitor unless I Cmd-Opt-P-R flash PRAM and reboot a few times just to get it to send a signal to the monitor. So now the Mac is useless to me. I literally can't use it for anything I was using it for. It has no working programs on it. So I switched back to Android, found an old Windows laptop, re-installed my audio software on Windows, and I'll just work without Apple until they fix their OS, or maybe never again.
  - bhj 7y ago
    FWIW, and to their credit, iZotope and NI sent out emails to all customers before Catalina was released to the public clearly warning them not to upgrade yet.
- beamatronic 7y ago
  Many enterprises have their own official disk image that they burn onto new hardware, ensuring complete control.
  - jakobegger 7y ago
    But that doesn't work with iOS devices, right?
  - gargravarr 7y ago
    Disk images don't work with Macs any more. Apple has forced us onto 'workflow-based' installations which are supposed to ensure firmware for all subsystems are installed as well, by running the OS installer every time. However, this is pretty time-consuming. You really don't have 'complete control' of Macs any more. Apple do what they like with your hardware.
- philipov 7y ago
  I bought new hardware, but I installed windows 7 on it instead of windows 10.
  - mister_hn 7y ago
    on Mac i guess you can't go down so easy.. There's no installation medium anymore and everything goes through their crappy AppStore
    - philipov 7y ago
      Yeah, it's shit like that why I don't use mac.
    - threeseed 7y ago
      You can install OSX using a USB drive: https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT201372 https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT201372 Been like this for many years now.
- VvR-Ox 7y ago
  Apple doesn't want to give you a choice but you can still do it: 1. Use some mac to download an older OS installer. The links are hidden but you can find them in some forums etc. 2. Create a bootstick - either manually or with software like dosdude's really nice patchers (find them here: http://dosdude1.com/ http://dosdude1.com/) 3. Backup your stuff (not only time machine as it would reinstall the new version of macos again) and install the old macOS to get your apps and files back on it This is something I really hate about Apple - why can't they just provide some official download links that keep working? With Apple I have a love-hate-relationship because some products (MBP until 2016/17, iPhone 5s/SE) and software (keynote, pages, lot of parts of the OS) are awesome while their software policy and planned obsolescence screws you hard if you just follow their lead as a simple user. You always have to take care not to update too early, use workarounds to integrate devices with different Apple software (like with airdrop) and if you brick devices there is few ways getting back to business (no helpful error messages like the icons they show on boot when something goes wrong or messages from their system diagnostic like "HDD is damaged" while it's just the cable).
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    While there are exceptions, Macs frequently won’t boot an OS which is older than what the sku originally shipped with. You can sometimes finagle it by playing around with kexts (I once even had success with a custom kernel designed for AMD Hackintosh’s), but it’s a somewhat involved process with no guarantee of success.
  - winterbc 7y ago
    You can simply restart with Shift-Option-⌘-R and reinstall the macOS version the hardware shipped with or the most compatible version. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204904 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204904
    - VvR-Ox 7y ago
      I know but that is not possible in every situation. I for example had no recovery mode on a MBP so I needed to get the Apple software on it somehow. The tool from dosdude can do a bit more. With it I managed to install High Sierra on a MBP from 2009 (which isn't compatible anymore but it runs flawlessly). Before it had an HDD with Windows only and no access to recovery mode or diagnostic tools. Thanks to the "High Sierra Patcher" everything works now :)
natch 7y ago
How long have they had to fix their keyboards? Rhetorical question. Five or six years. Two or three should have been long enough.
- pram 7y ago
  Six years? The first MBP with the butterfly keyboard was released exactly 3 years ago.
  - natch 7y ago
    Ah ok I’ve been waiting for a while to replace my 2013 MBP and no suitable replacements have been available since then. They probably designed the crappy keyboard a couple to a few years before shipping it so I’d still count that as time they’ve burned on this. But two or three years from the time outsiders discovered the problem should have been long enough. Aside from having other options in the pipeline they also had the old good designs to fall back on.
  - bhj 7y ago
    The (now discontinued) 12" Macbook was released in 2015 and used the butterfly keyboard first (it was also their first foray into USB-C). It'd be interesting to hear how they went about determining the keyboard was solid enough to use in the Pros when it clearly wasn't, even 3 design iterations in and almost 5 years later.
DavideNL 7y ago
> i wait a few months before a major upgrade to give them enough time to fix bugs. ^this. Updating your companies systems to a new major software version when it comes out is a huge mistake...

mkorfmann 7y ago

The plan is for Apple to be more excellent, so that immediate updating is the default.

mister_hn 7y ago

when you buy new hardware, you have already the new versions of OS. You don't have a choice

ossworkerrights 7y ago
There is also that indeed, sadly.
sivers 7y ago
Yep. That was my Catalina frustration, too. My phone broke last week so I bought an iPhone 11. My Mac wouldn't connect/sync with it unless I upgraded to Catalina. So I upgraded to Catalina, and now all of the software I used on Mac doesn't work at all. (iZotope Audio editing, Native Instruments, Cubase, Audacity, and more. None of it works in Catalina.) Catalina also makes my Mac Mini not recognize my LG monitor unless I Cmd-Opt-P-R flash PRAM and reboot a few times just to get it to send a signal to the monitor. So now the Mac is useless to me. I literally can't use it for anything I was using it for. It has no working programs on it. So I switched back to Android, found an old Windows laptop, re-installed my audio software on Windows, and I'll just work without Apple until they fix their OS, or maybe never again.
- bhj 7y ago
  FWIW, and to their credit, iZotope and NI sent out emails to all customers before Catalina was released to the public clearly warning them not to upgrade yet.
beamatronic 7y ago
Many enterprises have their own official disk image that they burn onto new hardware, ensuring complete control.
- jakobegger 7y ago
  But that doesn't work with iOS devices, right?
- gargravarr 7y ago
  Disk images don't work with Macs any more. Apple has forced us onto 'workflow-based' installations which are supposed to ensure firmware for all subsystems are installed as well, by running the OS installer every time. However, this is pretty time-consuming. You really don't have 'complete control' of Macs any more. Apple do what they like with your hardware.
philipov 7y ago
I bought new hardware, but I installed windows 7 on it instead of windows 10.
- mister_hn 7y ago
  on Mac i guess you can't go down so easy.. There's no installation medium anymore and everything goes through their crappy AppStore
  - philipov 7y ago
    Yeah, it's shit like that why I don't use mac.
  - threeseed 7y ago
    You can install OSX using a USB drive: https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT201372 https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT201372 Been like this for many years now.
VvR-Ox 7y ago
Apple doesn't want to give you a choice but you can still do it: 1. Use some mac to download an older OS installer. The links are hidden but you can find them in some forums etc. 2. Create a bootstick - either manually or with software like dosdude's really nice patchers (find them here: http://dosdude1.com/ http://dosdude1.com/) 3. Backup your stuff (not only time machine as it would reinstall the new version of macos again) and install the old macOS to get your apps and files back on it This is something I really hate about Apple - why can't they just provide some official download links that keep working? With Apple I have a love-hate-relationship because some products (MBP until 2016/17, iPhone 5s/SE) and software (keynote, pages, lot of parts of the OS) are awesome while their software policy and planned obsolescence screws you hard if you just follow their lead as a simple user. You always have to take care not to update too early, use workarounds to integrate devices with different Apple software (like with airdrop) and if you brick devices there is few ways getting back to business (no helpful error messages like the icons they show on boot when something goes wrong or messages from their system diagnostic like "HDD is damaged" while it's just the cable).
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  While there are exceptions, Macs frequently won’t boot an OS which is older than what the sku originally shipped with. You can sometimes finagle it by playing around with kexts (I once even had success with a custom kernel designed for AMD Hackintosh’s), but it’s a somewhat involved process with no guarantee of success.
- winterbc 7y ago
  You can simply restart with Shift-Option-⌘-R and reinstall the macOS version the hardware shipped with or the most compatible version. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204904 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204904
  - VvR-Ox 7y ago
    I know but that is not possible in every situation. I for example had no recovery mode on a MBP so I needed to get the Apple software on it somehow. The tool from dosdude can do a bit more. With it I managed to install High Sierra on a MBP from 2009 (which isn't compatible anymore but it runs flawlessly). Before it had an HDD with Windows only and no access to recovery mode or diagnostic tools. Thanks to the "High Sierra Patcher" everything works now :)

natch 7y ago

How long have they had to fix their keyboards? Rhetorical question. Five or six years. Two or three should have been long enough.

pram 7y ago
Six years? The first MBP with the butterfly keyboard was released exactly 3 years ago.
- natch 7y ago
  Ah ok I’ve been waiting for a while to replace my 2013 MBP and no suitable replacements have been available since then. They probably designed the crappy keyboard a couple to a few years before shipping it so I’d still count that as time they’ve burned on this. But two or three years from the time outsiders discovered the problem should have been long enough. Aside from having other options in the pipeline they also had the old good designs to fall back on.
- bhj 7y ago
  The (now discontinued) 12" Macbook was released in 2015 and used the butterfly keyboard first (it was also their first foray into USB-C). It'd be interesting to hear how they went about determining the keyboard was solid enough to use in the Pros when it clearly wasn't, even 3 design iterations in and almost 5 years later.

DavideNL 7y ago

> i wait a few months before a major upgrade to give them enough time to fix bugs. ^this. Updating your companies systems to a new major software version when it comes out is a huge mistake...