4 ms·

9980XE can run closer to 35K physics score (Physics is the only part of Firestrike that actually tests primarily the CPU). 3950X is going to be good at product

by paulmd 7y ago

9980XE can run closer to 35K physics score (Physics is the only part of Firestrike that actually tests primarily the CPU). 3950X is going to be good at productivity but Intel is still faster per-core and the 10980XE packs in 2 more cores. It's also more expensive, of course - there's a place for the 3950X here, just don't expect to see the 3950X handily best a 10980XE despite being short by 2 cores. The 3950X is just a 3900X with more cores, and we already know Zen2 pretty much just matches Intel in the best case and loses in many other cases. There is not enough architectural lead there to account for a (32,082 / 25,838) x (18/16) = 39.6% per-core performance lead in favor of AMD. Guaranteed. It's an erroneous test. It happens a lot with pre-release leaks, Zen has had a lot of timer bugs at launch. Or it's an LN2 run on the 3950X and an engineering sample 10980XE, or something like that. In a more realistic set of tests, with a 50% core deficit and mitigations enabled, Intel's geomean score is 6% lower than AMD's. They're not 40% behind AMD in per-core performance. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=3900x-9900k-mitigations&num=8 https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=3900x-99...

snovv_crash 7y ago
Or, as we've seen in many benchmarks, AMD's SMT implementation gets much higher gains than Intel's.
- paulmd 7y ago
  The math just isn't close to a 40% per-core lead in literally any single test let alone that being representative across the board. Real-world, AMD is still losing in per-core performance on average. Close, sometimes tying, sometimes leading, but not leading by 40%. Again: we already know what Zen2 performance looks like. Cascade Lake-X is basically Skylake-X+, a new stepping with some tweaks and (much) higher clocks. These are not new products when it comes to expected performance. It's straightforward to see that 40% per-core lead is purely wishful thinking from the AMD set here. Don't get your hopes up, you'll just crash the hype train yet again. I don't know why the hype train is such a thing for the AMD crowd, this spring it was supposed 5.1 GHz and 6C12T for $99 and that crashed into the brick wall of reality hard too.
  - jason0597 7y ago
    >this spring it was supposed 5.1 GHz and 6C12T for $99 Did a reasonable person actually claim this, or are you citing the most extreme of the most extreme AMD fanboys? That group isn't anywhere near representative of normal AMD customers.
    - paulmd 7y ago
      Yes, a very popular and (at the time) well-reputed tech analyst named AdoredTV claimed that was going to be the lineup. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCdsTBsH-rI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCdsTBsH-rI Obviously his reputation is in the toilet ever since (also due to him frankly melting down about how this was really AMD's fault, and that they must have changed the lineup since he published his leak, and if his leak wasn't right they should have told him). But at the time he was extremely revered among the AMD fanbase for breaking a fair few scoops, like the IO Die design for Zen2 server and desktop chips, and he claimed this was a very well-sourced leak that he was confident in. People also leaned on statements from Kyle at HardOCP, another long-time analyst as well as statements from Der8auer (an overclocker who works at CaseKing) that 5 GHz was quote "very realistic". There has been a concerted effort to retcon that and pretend that he was just some crazy who nobody ever believed, but this shit completely took over hardware discussion for the month before CES, and had a strong contingent of believers all the way up to the actual launch. Contemporary discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/a34nnm/ryzen_3000_radeon_3000_series_leaks_its_game_on/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/a34nnm/ryzen_3000_rade... https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/a3kteb/amd_ryzen_3000_nextgeneration_16core_processors/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/a3kteb/amd_ryzen_3000_... https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ahxxpg/der_8auer_thinks_5_ghz_on_ryzen_3000_is_very/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ahxxpg/der_8auer_think...
      - jason0597 7y ago
        Well, yeah, people on the AMD subreddit are going to eat this stuff up, obviously. That subreddit doesn't represent the average AMD customer.
  - ahbyb 7y ago
moonbas3 7y ago
At the same time you're comparing a HEDT CPU with a regular one so wait for Thread Ripper and check again. They might've slashed prices and they are kind of similar, but they target 2 different categories.
- paulmd 7y ago
  It wasn't my comparison. I'm not saying buy one vs the other. I'm simply responding to grandparent comment's claim that a 16C 3950X will beat a 18C 10980XE by 25%, which, no, it won't. The performance of these products is already known +/- a few percent, they are both just evolutions of existing products.

by paulmd 7y ago

snovv_crash 7y ago

Or, as we've seen in many benchmarks, AMD's SMT implementation gets much higher gains than Intel's.

paulmd 7y ago
The math just isn't close to a 40% per-core lead in literally any single test let alone that being representative across the board. Real-world, AMD is still losing in per-core performance on average. Close, sometimes tying, sometimes leading, but not leading by 40%. Again: we already know what Zen2 performance looks like. Cascade Lake-X is basically Skylake-X+, a new stepping with some tweaks and (much) higher clocks. These are not new products when it comes to expected performance. It's straightforward to see that 40% per-core lead is purely wishful thinking from the AMD set here. Don't get your hopes up, you'll just crash the hype train yet again. I don't know why the hype train is such a thing for the AMD crowd, this spring it was supposed 5.1 GHz and 6C12T for $99 and that crashed into the brick wall of reality hard too.
- jason0597 7y ago
  >this spring it was supposed 5.1 GHz and 6C12T for $99 Did a reasonable person actually claim this, or are you citing the most extreme of the most extreme AMD fanboys? That group isn't anywhere near representative of normal AMD customers.
  - paulmd 7y ago
    Yes, a very popular and (at the time) well-reputed tech analyst named AdoredTV claimed that was going to be the lineup. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCdsTBsH-rI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCdsTBsH-rI Obviously his reputation is in the toilet ever since (also due to him frankly melting down about how this was really AMD's fault, and that they must have changed the lineup since he published his leak, and if his leak wasn't right they should have told him). But at the time he was extremely revered among the AMD fanbase for breaking a fair few scoops, like the IO Die design for Zen2 server and desktop chips, and he claimed this was a very well-sourced leak that he was confident in. People also leaned on statements from Kyle at HardOCP, another long-time analyst as well as statements from Der8auer (an overclocker who works at CaseKing) that 5 GHz was quote "very realistic". There has been a concerted effort to retcon that and pretend that he was just some crazy who nobody ever believed, but this shit completely took over hardware discussion for the month before CES, and had a strong contingent of believers all the way up to the actual launch. Contemporary discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/a34nnm/ryzen_3000_radeon_3000_series_leaks_its_game_on/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/a34nnm/ryzen_3000_rade... https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/a3kteb/amd_ryzen_3000_nextgeneration_16core_processors/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/a3kteb/amd_ryzen_3000_... https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ahxxpg/der_8auer_thinks_5_ghz_on_ryzen_3000_is_very/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ahxxpg/der_8auer_think...
    - jason0597 7y ago
      Well, yeah, people on the AMD subreddit are going to eat this stuff up, obviously. That subreddit doesn't represent the average AMD customer.
- ahbyb 7y ago

moonbas3 7y ago

At the same time you're comparing a HEDT CPU with a regular one so wait for Thread Ripper and check again. They might've slashed prices and they are kind of similar, but they target 2 different categories.

paulmd 7y ago
It wasn't my comparison. I'm not saying buy one vs the other. I'm simply responding to grandparent comment's claim that a 16C 3950X will beat a 18C 10980XE by 25%, which, no, it won't. The performance of these products is already known +/- a few percent, they are both just evolutions of existing products.