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Google shareholders say "Go right ahead, be evil."
- gibsonf1 20y agoDamn, it is scary that they didn't accept those obvious guidelines. Google is being evil after all - not a good thing for those fighting for freedom in unfree countries where Google operates. Hopefully this breach will generate enough bad publicity for Google that they will reconsider.
- paul 20y agoIn which countries do you think that would have allowed them to operate? Unfortunately, all countries have problems and this isn't as black and white as the link seems to imply.
- gibsonf1 20y agoHow can they justify operating in a country like China where their technology is used directly to target political activists? I see no possible excuse for this. They are providing the most efficient and effective censorship and political targeting software ever created.
- paul 20y agoAnd you think that none of that is going on in the United States or other western countries? Should Google refuse to operate in the US because some of our laws are bad?
- gibsonf1 20y agoUm, when was the last time someone in the US was thrown in prison and/or executed for a political opinion? This happens in China right now, and there are already several cases where they used Google and Yahoo information to do it. Hence the very justified outcry against a US company directly aiding such an evil Government.
- paul 20y agoYou don't necessarily know what's going on in the US, for example: http://jwz.livejournal.com/745986.html http://jwz.livejournal.com/745986.html I'm not claiming that the US and China are the same, btw, just that it's not a matter of absolutes. In this country freedom is violated in the interests of Disney and such.
- gibsonf1 20y agoCan you give one example of a person put in jail or executed for their political views in the US? One example of government forced censorship? The difference between the US govt. and the Chinese is more than black and white. You have the right to disagree with US policies - try complaining about Chinese politcal policies in China and see what happens. This issue has no gray. The case shown in your posted link is not an example of political persecution against the ISP. We have no information on the reason for the request by the FBI, so I won't speculate. Even with an FBI gag order, the person made the whole case public and went to court. Try that in China.
- paul 20y agoThe great thing about secrecy is that you never really know what's going on. Exactly who is in Guantanamo or the secret CIA prisons, and why? Do you honestly believe that prosecutions, FBI investigations, etc are never politically motivated?
- gibsonf1 20y agoI have 0 evidence of anyone jailed or killed for their political beliefs in this country. Do you have any?
- comatose_kid 20y agoTell that to the people in this documentary (or their parents). Wonder if you'd still be saying that if it was your son in jail.... Take a look at: http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=310 http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=310 There's audio, and here's a direct link to the written transcript of the episode: http://www.thislife.org/extras/radio/310_transcript.pdf http://www.thislife.org/extras/radio/310_transcript.pdf An excerpt: "As best as we can tell, Badr Zaman Badr and his brother were imprisoned in Guantanamo for three years for telling a joke. Actually, for telling two jokes." I guess on second thought you are absolutely correct. These people weren't jailed in gitmo for their political beliefs after all - they just landed there because the US govt decided to listen to some random guy who was upset at being the target of their humor.
- Goladus 20y agohttp://headrush.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/04/06/dumbgroups2.jpg http://headrush.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/04/06/dumbgroups2.jpg Sersiouly though, it's a complicated issue and the suggestion to reject the proposal may simply be because it needs revision.
- gibsonf1 20y agoIf that were the case, why didn't they mention that, in principle, the proposal was good but needed to be revised which is why they recommended voting it down in its current form?
- Goladus 20y agoIf it were me, it would be to avoid clutter and confusion, as there are only two possible ways to vote. But that's just a guess.
- medfoer 20y agoGoogle is has always will be evil
- startupper 20y agoWhat happened here? "Schmidt and founders Larry Page and Sergey Brin together hold 66.2 percent of Google's total shareholder voting power, according to a U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) filing. All three are members of the board of directors, which has recommended that shareholders vote against the proposal at the company's annual meeting on May 10."
- ecuzzillo 20y agoIf I were Larry/Sergei/Schmidt, I'd vote against it too, just because I get annoyed when random shareholders try to tell me what to do with my company. When I first read this in a different context, it was worded so that the shareholders who weren't otherwise involved in the company brought up this proposal to force the company to do this stuff. IMO, even if I were going to follow the general intent of the proposal, I wouldn't want these random people who bought a bunch of stock to start snooping over my shoulder all the time. Furthermore, the measure seems likely to prevent the governments of said countries from allowing Google into them at all. It is debatable whether having a censored Google or no Google is better for oppressed peoples.
- gibsonf1 20y agoA censored google targeting political activists does nothing good for the oppressed people. It only makes ad revenues for Google while helping the opressing government pull the wool over their subject's eyes and jail and/or kill their political enemies.
- Tichy 20y agoWhile I assume that Google is evil, I am not sure that accepting censorship is actually evil. The alternative would be that Google would not be available at all in China. On the other hand chinese internet surfers are probably aware of the censorship anyway. I think Google acts just like a company trying to do it's job within the constraints of the environment.
- pg 19y agoYou guys are still arguing about this after two days? There ought to be a variant of Parkinson's Law about how much easier it is to argue about politics than other matters. It's like a ground state one sinks into. Individuals and sites...