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On a long enough timescale, you’d either die in an accident or get depressed and kill yourself just randomly within a few hundred years. The oldest wooden hous

On a long enough timescale, you’d either die in an accident or get depressed and kill yourself just randomly within a few hundred years. The oldest wooden houses are only one thousand years old. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirkjub%C3%B8argar%C3%B0ur https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirkjub%C3%B8argar%C3%B0ur The human body is way more delicate and less likely to survive. Even with extreme motivation, no human will see the death of our Sun, let alone the heat death of the universe.

tempestn 7y ago
It depends; if you could hypothetically buy yourself a few hundred years, that might be long enough for other techniques to preserve consciousness. Brain state backups, say. Not saying that will happen, but it's not inconceivable.
- kiba 7y ago
  I don't really think brain state backup as extending your life.
  - tempestn 7y ago
    Not on its own, but it would be the final piece in living effectively forever, since it could protect against accidents that would eventually take out even people who never aged or got sick. Unless you mean that a copy of your brain would not longer be 'you'. In that case I just disagree. We don't know the level of fidelity required, but it seems extremely likely to me that if my brain were copied to a sufficient level of precision, whatever that level might be, the copy would continue my subjective experience.
    - markyc 7y ago
      > the copy would continue my subjective experience. it may, but it wouldn't be "you". "You"'d experience death, and something else will exist independent of "you", but with most of the same features and memories.
      - tempestn 7y ago
        "I" am my thought patterns and memories. It would be me as much as I'm still me when I wake up each morning.
        codeisawesome 7y ago
        I agree with this - but Altered Carbon had this interesting couple scenes where more than one copy of a dude exists. What’s “you” in that event? If we can guarantee teamwork of the clones, we have a new status symbol - else we have created some severe ego/identity problems.
        AmericanChopper 7y ago
        Yeah I agree with this. As soon as two copies of you exist, your life experiences immediately diverge, and I wouldn’t say you could reasonably be considered the same person. I also think that copying your conscious state from one body to another creates a new person in any case. Everybody except you (including the copy) may consider the new person to be exactly the same as you, but you will now be dead.
        hexaga 7y ago
        [citation needed] Somewhat tongue in cheek, but the point remains. What leads you to believe this? As another reply touches on, there's a straightforward way to verify whether that is the case (for oneself, and not an external observer): Given a perfect clone, uploaded copy, etc, are you as aware of the clone's experience as you are of your own? If the answer is no, why would that change if the original ceases to exist? If the answer is yes, the first thing I'd want to know is _how_ exactly the information (of awareness) is possibly synchronized between hosts (presumably in realtime, at that!).
        saiya-jin 7y ago
        I think we have different perspective on this than you. To me, having my clone doesn't make it "me", no matter how perfect copy he would be. Him having joy doesn't make me having joy. Same with kids - they are basically our clones with genes mixed from both parents. They go on their own path and experiences. Although it it supremely rewarding to see them succeed in life, they are not "me", they are "they". My clones living forever ain't any more rewarding/fulfilling than seeing my kids spread my genes and... live "forever". And we already have that.
  - earthboundkid 7y ago
    It's really bizarre that people who don't believe in "souls" somehow think that they would be alive if a sufficiently similar mind existed somewhere. Like, okay cool, nice to know a similar mind will be out there in some computer, but that's not me, so why does that help me?
- jakeogh 7y ago
  Maybe our state can survive reboot... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21374458 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21374458
ricree 7y ago
The wood in houses is dead and no longer able to repair wear and decay. There are known trees whose ages easily exceed a thousand years: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_trees#Individual_trees_with_verified_ages https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_trees#Individ...
- hamandcheese 7y ago
  Also, humans have a tendency to remove themselves from harms way. Trees, alive or dead, don’t enjoy such an advantage.
- earthboundkid 7y ago
  Interesting. The clonal trees aren't much like humans (disconnected, mostly in suspended animation), but other trees make a good point of comparison.
GarrisonPrime 7y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
meddlepal 7y ago
Is to be human to be a fleshy meat bag? If the only thing that is actually human about us is our consciousness and we can figure out how to extract that into a digital device then I don't see why there's theoretically any time limit to our existence other than the ability to procure materials. I think this is generally where our species is heading..., we are going to continue to further blend ourselves with technology.
- monkeycantype 7y ago
  I like the idea of a fleet of nanobots that transparently and progressively replace defective neurons with API endpoints, until ultimately I get a chat message, "Hi MonkeyCanType, just wanted to let you know you've been 100% software for two years now. Would you like to chat about your options for printing a new body? We currently have specials on fire engines and triceratops."
nscalf 7y ago
I can buy the accident thing on a long enough time scale, even though I would imagine that emergency medicine would improve over time so it would have to be increasingly more severe of a problem. However, the “get depressed and kill yourself” argument holds no weight to me. Depression is a common thing, but such severe depression that you have suicidal tendencies is not in the cards for most humans. Humans are extremely flexible, and it really seems like some people don’t have naturally severe depressive episodes even with strong external tendencies. Beyond that, I can say that depression is often combated, in some of the less extreme cases, by recognizing it incoming and developing tools to keep yourself from spiraling. I’ve dealt with depression, and have had plenty of external things start a spiral. After many years of dealing with it, I have learned how to prevent it from getting overwhelming. I really don’t see the end of an indefinitely life occurring via suicide, assuming you’re not in isolation or alienated, or some crazy circumstance.
- nitrogen 7y ago
  assuming you’re not in isolation or alienated That seems like a big assumption over centuries.
- ggggtez 7y ago
  This argument doesn't hold water. This assumes that depression is purely something you must be born with, and you can't get it from environmental factors. The thing is, if you really lived for hundreds of years, society would be radically different. Imagine... You can't get promoted because no one above you ever retires. You can't get an entry level job, because everyone has 200+ years experience! People struggle to work the grind until they are 65 already. But you can't retire, because your death is so far away. You need to keep grinding another 500+ years... That kind of world would likely have a lot of systemic issues with depression.
  - mixmastamyk 7y ago
    It’d be tough to survive on only 100 years savings.
  - pferde 7y ago
rolltiide 7y ago
We can make our minds feel whatever we want. If you never want to feel lonely or unhappy we can do that. We currently cant keep our minds from becoming dependent on an external source of what it can naturally generate.

tempestn 7y ago

It depends; if you could hypothetically buy yourself a few hundred years, that might be long enough for other techniques to preserve consciousness. Brain state backups, say. Not saying that will happen, but it's not inconceivable.

kiba 7y ago
I don't really think brain state backup as extending your life.
- tempestn 7y ago
  Not on its own, but it would be the final piece in living effectively forever, since it could protect against accidents that would eventually take out even people who never aged or got sick. Unless you mean that a copy of your brain would not longer be 'you'. In that case I just disagree. We don't know the level of fidelity required, but it seems extremely likely to me that if my brain were copied to a sufficient level of precision, whatever that level might be, the copy would continue my subjective experience.
  - markyc 7y ago
    > the copy would continue my subjective experience. it may, but it wouldn't be "you". "You"'d experience death, and something else will exist independent of "you", but with most of the same features and memories.
    - tempestn 7y ago
      "I" am my thought patterns and memories. It would be me as much as I'm still me when I wake up each morning.
      - codeisawesome 7y ago
        I agree with this - but Altered Carbon had this interesting couple scenes where more than one copy of a dude exists. What’s “you” in that event? If we can guarantee teamwork of the clones, we have a new status symbol - else we have created some severe ego/identity problems.
        AmericanChopper 7y ago
        Yeah I agree with this. As soon as two copies of you exist, your life experiences immediately diverge, and I wouldn’t say you could reasonably be considered the same person. I also think that copying your conscious state from one body to another creates a new person in any case. Everybody except you (including the copy) may consider the new person to be exactly the same as you, but you will now be dead.
      - hexaga 7y ago
        [citation needed] Somewhat tongue in cheek, but the point remains. What leads you to believe this? As another reply touches on, there's a straightforward way to verify whether that is the case (for oneself, and not an external observer): Given a perfect clone, uploaded copy, etc, are you as aware of the clone's experience as you are of your own? If the answer is no, why would that change if the original ceases to exist? If the answer is yes, the first thing I'd want to know is _how_ exactly the information (of awareness) is possibly synchronized between hosts (presumably in realtime, at that!).
      - saiya-jin 7y ago
        I think we have different perspective on this than you. To me, having my clone doesn't make it "me", no matter how perfect copy he would be. Him having joy doesn't make me having joy. Same with kids - they are basically our clones with genes mixed from both parents. They go on their own path and experiences. Although it it supremely rewarding to see them succeed in life, they are not "me", they are "they". My clones living forever ain't any more rewarding/fulfilling than seeing my kids spread my genes and... live "forever". And we already have that.
- earthboundkid 7y ago
  It's really bizarre that people who don't believe in "souls" somehow think that they would be alive if a sufficiently similar mind existed somewhere. Like, okay cool, nice to know a similar mind will be out there in some computer, but that's not me, so why does that help me?
jakeogh 7y ago
Maybe our state can survive reboot... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21374458 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21374458

ricree 7y ago

The wood in houses is dead and no longer able to repair wear and decay. There are known trees whose ages easily exceed a thousand years: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_trees#Individual_trees_with_verified_ages https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_trees#Individ...

hamandcheese 7y ago
Also, humans have a tendency to remove themselves from harms way. Trees, alive or dead, don’t enjoy such an advantage.
earthboundkid 7y ago
Interesting. The clonal trees aren't much like humans (disconnected, mostly in suspended animation), but other trees make a good point of comparison.

GarrisonPrime 7y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

meddlepal 7y ago

Is to be human to be a fleshy meat bag? If the only thing that is actually human about us is our consciousness and we can figure out how to extract that into a digital device then I don't see why there's theoretically any time limit to our existence other than the ability to procure materials. I think this is generally where our species is heading..., we are going to continue to further blend ourselves with technology.

monkeycantype 7y ago
I like the idea of a fleet of nanobots that transparently and progressively replace defective neurons with API endpoints, until ultimately I get a chat message, "Hi MonkeyCanType, just wanted to let you know you've been 100% software for two years now. Would you like to chat about your options for printing a new body? We currently have specials on fire engines and triceratops."

nscalf 7y ago

I can buy the accident thing on a long enough time scale, even though I would imagine that emergency medicine would improve over time so it would have to be increasingly more severe of a problem. However, the “get depressed and kill yourself” argument holds no weight to me. Depression is a common thing, but such severe depression that you have suicidal tendencies is not in the cards for most humans. Humans are extremely flexible, and it really seems like some people don’t have naturally severe depressive episodes even with strong external tendencies. Beyond that, I can say that depression is often combated, in some of the less extreme cases, by recognizing it incoming and developing tools to keep yourself from spiraling. I’ve dealt with depression, and have had plenty of external things start a spiral. After many years of dealing with it, I have learned how to prevent it from getting overwhelming. I really don’t see the end of an indefinitely life occurring via suicide, assuming you’re not in isolation or alienated, or some crazy circumstance.

nitrogen 7y ago
assuming you’re not in isolation or alienated That seems like a big assumption over centuries.
ggggtez 7y ago
This argument doesn't hold water. This assumes that depression is purely something you must be born with, and you can't get it from environmental factors. The thing is, if you really lived for hundreds of years, society would be radically different. Imagine... You can't get promoted because no one above you ever retires. You can't get an entry level job, because everyone has 200+ years experience! People struggle to work the grind until they are 65 already. But you can't retire, because your death is so far away. You need to keep grinding another 500+ years... That kind of world would likely have a lot of systemic issues with depression.
- mixmastamyk 7y ago
  It’d be tough to survive on only 100 years savings.
- pferde 7y ago

rolltiide 7y ago

We can make our minds feel whatever we want. If you never want to feel lonely or unhappy we can do that. We currently cant keep our minds from becoming dependent on an external source of what it can naturally generate.