7 ms·

Hundreds shot and beaten as Chile takes to the streets

96 points by AndrewBissell 7y ago

wallflower 7y ago
I think at this point we can agree that a subway price hike leading to tanks in the street a mere week later is not the true issue. Something about privatized pension companies taking way more than what would be their fair share is the likely culprit. https://protectpensions.org/2016/08/23/chile-failure-privatized-pension-system/ https://protectpensions.org/2016/08/23/chile-failure-privati...
- chrisco255 7y ago
  It's supposed to be about cost of living, increase in energy prices, etc. Not sure if the pension system is related. But pension systems have always been dubious in my mind. 401Ks + social security have seemed to be the best of both worlds.
- primroot 7y ago
  No+AFP (No more AFP) is a common graffiti in Chile, and also a common protest banner during the past week. Measures regarding an increase in pensions were also among the promises of the president on Monday 10/21.
- rayiner 7y ago
  You’re linking to a left-wing organization. But you’re ignoring the fact that, just two years ago, a decisive majority of Chilean voters (55-45) voted in the center-right, pro-market party and Presidential candidate: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/17/chileans-cast-their-ballot-in-decisive-presidential-runoff https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/17/chileans-cast-... > Months of campaigning exposed deepening rifts among the country’s once bedrock centre left, an opening former president Piñera leveraged to rally more centrist voters around his proposals to cut corporate taxes, double economic growth and eliminate poverty in the world’s top copper producer. The current President ran on corporate tax cuts and won. The majority obviously did not do so under the belief that Piñera was going to nationalize the pension system. The protestors evidently are mad about that.
  - mtgx 7y ago
    I wonder if most people vote on policy or because they don't like the previous party in power anymore and think it's corrupt and/or they like the personality of the new party candidate.
  - danharaj 7y ago
    Voter participation was 50%. Decisive indeed.
    - rayiner 7y ago
      That’s not atypical for elections in Switzerland, Japan, or the US. That doesn’t invalidate the outcome of elections.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
  - rasz 7y ago
    > just two years ago, a decisive majority of Chilean voters (55-45) voted in the center-right, pro-market party and Presidential candidate Sounds similar to Frances Emmanuel Macron. Yellow vests are still at it, almost full year of riots in the heart of Europe and nothing changed.
- millettjon 7y ago
  The culprit is unequal distribution of wealth. The working class is affected by low minimum wage, limited access to healthcare, cost of education, and broken social security (AFP).
Zenst 7y ago
Interesting how a story is told can influence perspective: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-50197673 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-50197673 Equally, you can read one side from one perspective and ends up fueling it in that direction or read it from another perspective and be more focused upon the resolution and maybe fuel that tangent. Just interesting how news is portrayed and how it can emotionally drive social media ,which can only fuel the angst over solving it. At least, that is one aspect I've become more mindful of over time.
croissants 7y ago
I read this article and got the impression that the "19 dead" figure would be military killing protesters. So I thought that this was another heavy-handed putdown of relatively peaceful protests. But Wikipedia's breakdown [1] is quite different. By my count, 15 deaths don't involve the military at all. These deaths are from protest-related fires, looting-related shootings, and a citizen? who drove into a crowd of protesters and killed two people. 5 more deaths were direct results of military activity, so the apparent number is 20. However, I can't judge the Wikipedia sources because many of them come from Spanish-language news sources. And, as the original article says, the government is actively impeding accurate statistics. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Chilean_protests#Deaths https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Chilean_protests#Deaths
- vcanales 7y ago
  This is pretty much it, as we’ve seen and heard from the media and the INDH (National Institute of Human Rights)
cuchoi 7y ago
Chilean here, AMA.
- holografix 7y ago
  From your perspective, is the Guardian’s article accurate? Is there any bias? What are the main issues?
- croissants 7y ago
  The Wikipedia article on the protests [1] makes the run-up to the huge march on October 25 seem pretty chaotic. In particular, the deaths and fires from looting, as well as the destruction of public transit stations, makes the declaration of emergency look like a reasonable response, even if the subsequent shooting of protesters looks less reasonable. So my question is, just how much chaos has there been, and where do you think the situation lies on the spectrum between "peaceful protests receive disproportionately violate suppression" and "military does its best to control chaos"? And if I can ask one more, what do you think the general reason is? The claimed main reason, a ~5% increase in public transit fares, seems implausible. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Chilean_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Chilean_protests
  - lemonpan 7y ago
    As someone living in a middle/lower class neighbourhood, I would say that there's been some chaos. I myself saw two train stations being burned and a supermarket being looted in front of me. However, as someone who's been to these peaceful protests since October 18, I think that the treatment the government and police have given to these protests is one of the big catalysts for the chaos and violence. Peaceful payment evasion protests started on October 14 and the government just decided to treat protestors as criminals, sending police's special forces units to train stations, where violent encounters between officers and protestors (at this point most protestors were 13-17 years old as the movement started with secondary students) which would infuriate people and on Thursday of that same week protestors started to destroy charging devices and opened gates to closed stations. From that point violence only would escalate. I think that both police and military forces have shown a disproportionately violent response. Last INDH (National Institute of Human Rights) report [1] says there have been 3193 detainees, 1092 injured in hospitals, and 88 lawsuits, of which 17 are for sexual harassment (including rape). It might sound "reasonable" for some to declare emergency state and send military forces to the streets, but it's the first time that something like this happened since the dictatorship. Police officers are throwing teargas to kids and the elderly in the protests. There's also a big number of injuries that will never get to be informed. About the reasons, I would say inequality. The increase in train fares is nothing more than a detonator. There's no organization leading the movement, so the demands are scattered (pensions, health, social contract, neoliberalism, concessioned highways, etc). [1] https://twitter.com/inddhh/status/1188525375577645057 https://twitter.com/inddhh/status/1188525375577645057
vector_spaces 7y ago
"The latest protests follow grievances over the cost of living, specifically the costs of healthcare, education and public services. Unsatisfied by partial reforms following widespread education protests in 2011, the metro fare rise has proved the spark that has awoken Chile’s formidable student body, according to psychiatrist and writer Marco Antonio de la Parra. “Over the past decade, the Chilean state has lost touch with these problems,” he said. “The places that have been targeted tonight are deeply symbolic: transport and energy represent the success of the state and the model it upholds.” On top of social discontent, anger has also been directed at the Carabineros national police force, once one of the country’s most respected institutions but whose reputation has been eroded by corruption scandals and a reputation for brutality, whose heavy-handed repression of protests has also come under the spotlight." https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/19/chile-protests-state-of-emergency-declared-in-santiago-as-violence-escalates https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/19/chile-protests...
- ahbyb 7y ago
  "over the past decade"... don't they have elections to solve these issues instead of acting like monkeys? Or is this the usual case of a minority making a mess because they don't like what the majority of the country has chosen?
  - meerita 7y ago
    Because it's an organized strike by the extremist-left wing in order to take over the goverment. They never win elections, so they organize chaos.
    - ahbyb 7y ago
      I see. I was suspecting something like this. I hope the government can resist this and democracy is preserved.
      - meerita 7y ago
        We will get downvoted to hell, but it is the truth: those people don't believe, don't like democracy, since they cannot convince the entire country to change or respect institutions, the minority riots. Chile was one of the best countries, with a very low gini (0,466 (Chile), 0,447 (VE)) https://twitter.com/juanrallo/status/1188070855387029504 https://twitter.com/juanrallo/status/1188070855387029504
mikece 7y ago
How typical: we Americans have to learn about this from foreign media because our media is obsessed about Trump.
- adventured 7y ago
  It has been very widely covered in US news since the protests / riots began. CNN, CNBC, Bloomberg, CNN, WSJ, ABC News, CBS News, NBC News, Fox News, NY Times, Washington Post, USA Today. All have had regular coverage of it. 6 days ago, USA Today: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/10/21/chile-protests-violence-looting-and-canceled-flights-santiago/4051262002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/10/21/chile-p... 6 days ago, NY Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/20/world/americas/chile-protests-riots.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/20/world/americas/chile-prot... 6 days ago, Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/10/21/chile-protests-santiago-dead-state-emergency/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/10/21/chile-prote... 6 days ago, CNBC: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/21/chile-protests-president-extends-state-of-emergency-after-riots.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/21/chile-protests-president-ext... 6 days ago, WSJ: https://www.wsj.com/articles/protests-in-chile-leave-three-dead-five-provinces-under-state-of-emergency-11571617543 https://www.wsj.com/articles/protests-in-chile-leave-three-d... And so on.
  - WillPostForFood 7y ago
    Nothing on the homepage of the NY Times today, above or below the fold. NY Times and other outlets did report on it, as you show in your links, but attention has lapsed. It feels like it deserves more focus as it could be a harbinger of more widespread unrest.
    - nostrademons 7y ago
      Says a lot about the NYTimes. I usually use aggregators like Google News, Reddit, HN, etc, and heard about this over a week ago. The "more widespread unrest" is already here - there's ongoing civil disorder in Chile, Hong Kong, Lebanon, Iraq, Venezuela, Zimbabwe, Kurdistan, Palestine, and Catalonia; ongoing civil wars in Syria, Yemen, Iraq, Libya, Mali, DRC, Sudan; and endemic violence and state failure in Mexico and Central America. India is a potential flashpoint that could go up in smoke at any time (they have a demographic bulge that usually results in civil unrest, and I've read many young people there believe Gandhi "should've been more violent"), while the U.S. and U.K. both face potentially destabilizing internal conflicts. If the U.S. goes up in flames the whole world likely will, as we've been a deterring force for many regional conflicts.
undefined3840 7y ago
It seems like there are dozens of massive anti-government protests all over the world right now.
- dgellow 7y ago
  Was there a time where that wasn’t the case? It’s a genuine question. It could be that such situation has always been relatively common but that nowadays it is way easier to learn about it without explicitly looking for it. because of speed of information and the fact that everybody has a camera and platforms where to share their voice.
  - undefined3840 7y ago
    I mean social media is not new and don’t recall a time in the last 15 years or so when it seemed like there were so many happening simultaneously
    - dgellow 7y ago
      Events I personally remember from the past ~10 years: - arabic spring, ~2011, ~6 countries (from memory: morocco, egypt, tunisia, yemen, lybia, syria), all in the same year - major greek protests (I believe 2009 or 2010, may be earlier) - ukranian revolution (~2014 IIRC) - major protests in Turkey around 2013 - big protests in the US (Ferguson was around 2014 I think?) - massive protests in Spain in 2017 - protests in Thailand before and after the military coup of 2014 A quick google search gives me a list of "crisis situations in Europe since 2000" with some dates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_situations_and_unrest_in_Europe_since_2000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_situations_and_unrest_i... . That's only for the small part of the world I'm the more familiar with.
      - undefined3840 7y ago
        Key word is simultaneously.
rayiner 7y ago
There is important context about Chile that people need to understand. Chile is by far the freest economy in Latin America: https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking. Chile also has the highest per capita income: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_South_American_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_South_American_count.... And it has the highest human development index: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latin_American_countries_by_Human_Development_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latin_American_countri... Unsurprisingly, many people don’t want to rock that boat. The current center-right government was elected in 2017 by a decisive majority. (The President won 55-45 in the run off election). The protests in Chile are largely socialists and labor movement that are trying to get policies passed they couldn’t get through the democratic process.
- lemonpan 7y ago
  About 33% of that GDP is controlled by the richest 1% according to The World Bank [1]. Yes, Chile's HDI is quite high for a Latin American country. The problem is, in the same city (Santiago) you've got communes with HDIs above Norway's (Vitacura, Las Condes, and Providencia got HDIs above 0.953) and then there are communes less than an hour away that got an HDI lower than Panama's (San Ramón HDI is 0.786) [2][3][4]. By OECD's data, Chile is the third country with the highest income inequality amongst OECD members [5]. [1] http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/496131468228282235/Chile-Efectos-distributivos-de-la-reforma-tributaria-2014 http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/496131468228282235... [2] Calculated with INE's data (2017) https://imgur.com/GKMcGw9 https://imgur.com/GKMcGw9 [3] http://reportescomunales.bcn.cl/2012/index.php/Categor%C3%ADa:Comunas http://reportescomunales.bcn.cl/2012/index.php/Categor%C3%AD... [4] http://www.desarrollosocialyfamilia.gob.cl/informacion-social/informes-de-desarrollo-social http://www.desarrollosocialyfamilia.gob.cl/informacion-socia... [5] https://data.oecd.org/inequality/income-inequality.htm https://data.oecd.org/inequality/income-inequality.htm
  - rayiner 7y ago
    Panama has the fifth highest HDI in Latin America. And you can bet that the HDI in poorer regions of Panama are much lower than that of poorer regions in Chile. But besides that, these trade offs are for Chile’s voters to resolve. Those voters decided that sticking with markets, even in the face of higher inequality, was the way to go.
knolax 7y ago
When I see articles like this I ask myself some questions: Have I ever been to Chile? No. Do I know any Chileans? One. Do I know Spanish? Probably less than the average Chilean gradeschooler. Have I ever read any form of media, even entertainment, coming out of Chile? No. Given the above, how can I ever verify that the media reports I see on HN and elsewhere are anywhere close to reality? Chances are the actual reality there is completely different from what I'm reading in ways I can't even imagine. I think before we make comments on Chile's or any other distant country's situation we should all consider that maybe we do not have sufficient information to have a valid opinion. Otherwise you're probably just regurgitating the narrative your media is pushing.

96 points by AndrewBissell 7y ago

I think at this point we can agree that a subway price hike leading to tanks in the street a mere week later is not the true issue. Something about privatized pension companies taking way more than what would be their fair share is the likely culprit. https://protectpensions.org/2016/08/23/chile-failure-privatized-pension-system/ https://protectpensions.org/2016/08/23/chile-failure-privati...

chrisco255 7y ago
It's supposed to be about cost of living, increase in energy prices, etc. Not sure if the pension system is related. But pension systems have always been dubious in my mind. 401Ks + social security have seemed to be the best of both worlds.
primroot 7y ago
No+AFP (No more AFP) is a common graffiti in Chile, and also a common protest banner during the past week. Measures regarding an increase in pensions were also among the promises of the president on Monday 10/21.
rayiner 7y ago
You’re linking to a left-wing organization. But you’re ignoring the fact that, just two years ago, a decisive majority of Chilean voters (55-45) voted in the center-right, pro-market party and Presidential candidate: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/17/chileans-cast-their-ballot-in-decisive-presidential-runoff https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/17/chileans-cast-... > Months of campaigning exposed deepening rifts among the country’s once bedrock centre left, an opening former president Piñera leveraged to rally more centrist voters around his proposals to cut corporate taxes, double economic growth and eliminate poverty in the world’s top copper producer. The current President ran on corporate tax cuts and won. The majority obviously did not do so under the belief that Piñera was going to nationalize the pension system. The protestors evidently are mad about that.
- mtgx 7y ago
  I wonder if most people vote on policy or because they don't like the previous party in power anymore and think it's corrupt and/or they like the personality of the new party candidate.
- danharaj 7y ago
  Voter participation was 50%. Decisive indeed.
  - rayiner 7y ago
    That’s not atypical for elections in Switzerland, Japan, or the US. That doesn’t invalidate the outcome of elections.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- rasz 7y ago
  > just two years ago, a decisive majority of Chilean voters (55-45) voted in the center-right, pro-market party and Presidential candidate Sounds similar to Frances Emmanuel Macron. Yellow vests are still at it, almost full year of riots in the heart of Europe and nothing changed.
millettjon 7y ago
The culprit is unequal distribution of wealth. The working class is affected by low minimum wage, limited access to healthcare, cost of education, and broken social security (AFP).

Zenst 7y ago

Interesting how a story is told can influence perspective: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-50197673 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-50197673 Equally, you can read one side from one perspective and ends up fueling it in that direction or read it from another perspective and be more focused upon the resolution and maybe fuel that tangent. Just interesting how news is portrayed and how it can emotionally drive social media ,which can only fuel the angst over solving it. At least, that is one aspect I've become more mindful of over time.

croissants 7y ago

I read this article and got the impression that the "19 dead" figure would be military killing protesters. So I thought that this was another heavy-handed putdown of relatively peaceful protests. But Wikipedia's breakdown [1] is quite different. By my count, 15 deaths don't involve the military at all. These deaths are from protest-related fires, looting-related shootings, and a citizen? who drove into a crowd of protesters and killed two people. 5 more deaths were direct results of military activity, so the apparent number is 20. However, I can't judge the Wikipedia sources because many of them come from Spanish-language news sources. And, as the original article says, the government is actively impeding accurate statistics. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Chilean_protests#Deaths https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Chilean_protests#Deaths

vcanales 7y ago
This is pretty much it, as we’ve seen and heard from the media and the INDH (National Institute of Human Rights)

cuchoi 7y ago

Chilean here, AMA.

holografix 7y ago
From your perspective, is the Guardian’s article accurate? Is there any bias? What are the main issues?
croissants 7y ago
The Wikipedia article on the protests [1] makes the run-up to the huge march on October 25 seem pretty chaotic. In particular, the deaths and fires from looting, as well as the destruction of public transit stations, makes the declaration of emergency look like a reasonable response, even if the subsequent shooting of protesters looks less reasonable. So my question is, just how much chaos has there been, and where do you think the situation lies on the spectrum between "peaceful protests receive disproportionately violate suppression" and "military does its best to control chaos"? And if I can ask one more, what do you think the general reason is? The claimed main reason, a ~5% increase in public transit fares, seems implausible. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Chilean_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Chilean_protests
- lemonpan 7y ago
  As someone living in a middle/lower class neighbourhood, I would say that there's been some chaos. I myself saw two train stations being burned and a supermarket being looted in front of me. However, as someone who's been to these peaceful protests since October 18, I think that the treatment the government and police have given to these protests is one of the big catalysts for the chaos and violence. Peaceful payment evasion protests started on October 14 and the government just decided to treat protestors as criminals, sending police's special forces units to train stations, where violent encounters between officers and protestors (at this point most protestors were 13-17 years old as the movement started with secondary students) which would infuriate people and on Thursday of that same week protestors started to destroy charging devices and opened gates to closed stations. From that point violence only would escalate. I think that both police and military forces have shown a disproportionately violent response. Last INDH (National Institute of Human Rights) report [1] says there have been 3193 detainees, 1092 injured in hospitals, and 88 lawsuits, of which 17 are for sexual harassment (including rape). It might sound "reasonable" for some to declare emergency state and send military forces to the streets, but it's the first time that something like this happened since the dictatorship. Police officers are throwing teargas to kids and the elderly in the protests. There's also a big number of injuries that will never get to be informed. About the reasons, I would say inequality. The increase in train fares is nothing more than a detonator. There's no organization leading the movement, so the demands are scattered (pensions, health, social contract, neoliberalism, concessioned highways, etc). [1] https://twitter.com/inddhh/status/1188525375577645057 https://twitter.com/inddhh/status/1188525375577645057

vector_spaces 7y ago

"The latest protests follow grievances over the cost of living, specifically the costs of healthcare, education and public services. Unsatisfied by partial reforms following widespread education protests in 2011, the metro fare rise has proved the spark that has awoken Chile’s formidable student body, according to psychiatrist and writer Marco Antonio de la Parra. “Over the past decade, the Chilean state has lost touch with these problems,” he said. “The places that have been targeted tonight are deeply symbolic: transport and energy represent the success of the state and the model it upholds.” On top of social discontent, anger has also been directed at the Carabineros national police force, once one of the country’s most respected institutions but whose reputation has been eroded by corruption scandals and a reputation for brutality, whose heavy-handed repression of protests has also come under the spotlight." https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/19/chile-protests-state-of-emergency-declared-in-santiago-as-violence-escalates https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/19/chile-protests...

ahbyb 7y ago
"over the past decade"... don't they have elections to solve these issues instead of acting like monkeys? Or is this the usual case of a minority making a mess because they don't like what the majority of the country has chosen?
- meerita 7y ago
  Because it's an organized strike by the extremist-left wing in order to take over the goverment. They never win elections, so they organize chaos.
  - ahbyb 7y ago
    I see. I was suspecting something like this. I hope the government can resist this and democracy is preserved.
    - meerita 7y ago
      We will get downvoted to hell, but it is the truth: those people don't believe, don't like democracy, since they cannot convince the entire country to change or respect institutions, the minority riots. Chile was one of the best countries, with a very low gini (0,466 (Chile), 0,447 (VE)) https://twitter.com/juanrallo/status/1188070855387029504 https://twitter.com/juanrallo/status/1188070855387029504

mikece 7y ago

How typical: we Americans have to learn about this from foreign media because our media is obsessed about Trump.

adventured 7y ago
It has been very widely covered in US news since the protests / riots began. CNN, CNBC, Bloomberg, CNN, WSJ, ABC News, CBS News, NBC News, Fox News, NY Times, Washington Post, USA Today. All have had regular coverage of it. 6 days ago, USA Today: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/10/21/chile-protests-violence-looting-and-canceled-flights-santiago/4051262002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/10/21/chile-p... 6 days ago, NY Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/20/world/americas/chile-protests-riots.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/20/world/americas/chile-prot... 6 days ago, Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/10/21/chile-protests-santiago-dead-state-emergency/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/10/21/chile-prote... 6 days ago, CNBC: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/21/chile-protests-president-extends-state-of-emergency-after-riots.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/21/chile-protests-president-ext... 6 days ago, WSJ: https://www.wsj.com/articles/protests-in-chile-leave-three-dead-five-provinces-under-state-of-emergency-11571617543 https://www.wsj.com/articles/protests-in-chile-leave-three-d... And so on.
- WillPostForFood 7y ago
  Nothing on the homepage of the NY Times today, above or below the fold. NY Times and other outlets did report on it, as you show in your links, but attention has lapsed. It feels like it deserves more focus as it could be a harbinger of more widespread unrest.
  - nostrademons 7y ago
    Says a lot about the NYTimes. I usually use aggregators like Google News, Reddit, HN, etc, and heard about this over a week ago. The "more widespread unrest" is already here - there's ongoing civil disorder in Chile, Hong Kong, Lebanon, Iraq, Venezuela, Zimbabwe, Kurdistan, Palestine, and Catalonia; ongoing civil wars in Syria, Yemen, Iraq, Libya, Mali, DRC, Sudan; and endemic violence and state failure in Mexico and Central America. India is a potential flashpoint that could go up in smoke at any time (they have a demographic bulge that usually results in civil unrest, and I've read many young people there believe Gandhi "should've been more violent"), while the U.S. and U.K. both face potentially destabilizing internal conflicts. If the U.S. goes up in flames the whole world likely will, as we've been a deterring force for many regional conflicts.

undefined3840 7y ago

It seems like there are dozens of massive anti-government protests all over the world right now.

dgellow 7y ago
Was there a time where that wasn’t the case? It’s a genuine question. It could be that such situation has always been relatively common but that nowadays it is way easier to learn about it without explicitly looking for it. because of speed of information and the fact that everybody has a camera and platforms where to share their voice.
- undefined3840 7y ago
  I mean social media is not new and don’t recall a time in the last 15 years or so when it seemed like there were so many happening simultaneously
  - dgellow 7y ago
    Events I personally remember from the past ~10 years: - arabic spring, ~2011, ~6 countries (from memory: morocco, egypt, tunisia, yemen, lybia, syria), all in the same year - major greek protests (I believe 2009 or 2010, may be earlier) - ukranian revolution (~2014 IIRC) - major protests in Turkey around 2013 - big protests in the US (Ferguson was around 2014 I think?) - massive protests in Spain in 2017 - protests in Thailand before and after the military coup of 2014 A quick google search gives me a list of "crisis situations in Europe since 2000" with some dates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_situations_and_unrest_in_Europe_since_2000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_situations_and_unrest_i... . That's only for the small part of the world I'm the more familiar with.
    - undefined3840 7y ago
      Key word is simultaneously.

rayiner 7y ago

There is important context about Chile that people need to understand. Chile is by far the freest economy in Latin America: https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking. Chile also has the highest per capita income: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_South_American_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_South_American_count.... And it has the highest human development index: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latin_American_countries_by_Human_Development_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latin_American_countri... Unsurprisingly, many people don’t want to rock that boat. The current center-right government was elected in 2017 by a decisive majority. (The President won 55-45 in the run off election). The protests in Chile are largely socialists and labor movement that are trying to get policies passed they couldn’t get through the democratic process.

lemonpan 7y ago
About 33% of that GDP is controlled by the richest 1% according to The World Bank [1]. Yes, Chile's HDI is quite high for a Latin American country. The problem is, in the same city (Santiago) you've got communes with HDIs above Norway's (Vitacura, Las Condes, and Providencia got HDIs above 0.953) and then there are communes less than an hour away that got an HDI lower than Panama's (San Ramón HDI is 0.786) [2][3][4]. By OECD's data, Chile is the third country with the highest income inequality amongst OECD members [5]. [1] http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/496131468228282235/Chile-Efectos-distributivos-de-la-reforma-tributaria-2014 http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/496131468228282235... [2] Calculated with INE's data (2017) https://imgur.com/GKMcGw9 https://imgur.com/GKMcGw9 [3] http://reportescomunales.bcn.cl/2012/index.php/Categor%C3%ADa:Comunas http://reportescomunales.bcn.cl/2012/index.php/Categor%C3%AD... [4] http://www.desarrollosocialyfamilia.gob.cl/informacion-social/informes-de-desarrollo-social http://www.desarrollosocialyfamilia.gob.cl/informacion-socia... [5] https://data.oecd.org/inequality/income-inequality.htm https://data.oecd.org/inequality/income-inequality.htm
- rayiner 7y ago
  Panama has the fifth highest HDI in Latin America. And you can bet that the HDI in poorer regions of Panama are much lower than that of poorer regions in Chile. But besides that, these trade offs are for Chile’s voters to resolve. Those voters decided that sticking with markets, even in the face of higher inequality, was the way to go.

knolax 7y ago

When I see articles like this I ask myself some questions: Have I ever been to Chile? No. Do I know any Chileans? One. Do I know Spanish? Probably less than the average Chilean gradeschooler. Have I ever read any form of media, even entertainment, coming out of Chile? No. Given the above, how can I ever verify that the media reports I see on HN and elsewhere are anywhere close to reality? Chances are the actual reality there is completely different from what I'm reading in ways I can't even imagine. I think before we make comments on Chile's or any other distant country's situation we should all consider that maybe we do not have sufficient information to have a valid opinion. Otherwise you're probably just regurgitating the narrative your media is pushing.