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This is something that I've struggled with for my daughter. I want her to walk into my job and feel like she belongs. However, given the current state of dick

This is something that I've struggled with for my daughter. I want her to walk into my job and feel like she belongs. However, given the current state of dickheads in IT, that's going to be a tall ask. Her mother is a doctor, so its not like she doesn't have role models. We made a conscious effort not to make her "lady like", that is, like a boy we encourage her to be arrogant (self belief), not to take any crap (fight if she has to), make jokes, and to stand up for her opinion. The problem, is that she's not with us at school (otherwise that would be weird) So we are at the mercy of those people's opinion of what a woman/man should be. Her first nursery was very good, run by exceptionally tough londoners. (I don't care if he's a boy, he's going to have to learn how to hold a baby, best start now & Of course she's playing with the drill, she can't wait for some bloke to put up a shelf now can she?) The second nursery was less useful: Staff: "Your daughter acted up today, it was very unusual" Me: "oh? what did she do?" Staff: "well she got into an argument with another child, You daughter said that her dad did her lovely plaits this morning. The other child said dads don't do hair. We saw that something was going on, and once they told us, we said [daughter's name] you know your dad didn't do your hair(looks at me with a "oh kids" face). She got very angry after that, we're not sure why" Me: "I did do her hair." Staff: "oh" There was another time when a kid said that girls can't be doctors. This sort of shit is easy to pick up, and it becomes ingrained.

im3w1l 7y ago
> the current state of dickheads in IT, This is needless and hurtful
- krapp 7y ago
  But not untrue.
- happytoexplain 7y ago
  I'm in IT, and don't feel hurt by it. I have a hard time imagining who would feel hurt by a throwaway line that's so very non-specific, especially when it's referring to a phenomenon that's so real and important. I have an easy time imagining who would feel angered by this line, however.
  - im3w1l 7y ago
    Oh so now we are playing the insinuation game? Classy
- KaiserPro 7y ago
  so is a mountain unsolicited dick picks, and constant questioning of skill because someone's got a vagina. but you know, your hurt is more real.
jes5199 7y ago
not all companies have the same culture, maybe you should ask yourself why you’re willing to work with people who you aren’t willing to expose your daughter to
- KaiserPro 7y ago
  I work at a very nice company. We make sure that people aren't bullied, its a core principle. But I am just one devop in one small company. I have a great many friends from all over IT, and the female ones all have the same problem: dickheads. On github,/hackernews/other change your name to something feminine, stick a profile pick up from https://thispersondoesnotexist.com/ https://thispersondoesnotexist.com/ and experience the dick forcing it's way into your PRs DMs and email.
lordnacho 7y ago
> There was another time when a kid said that girls can't be doctors. This sort of shit is easy to pick up, and it becomes ingrained. Nearly half of doctors in the UK are women. I remember going to see my friend who'd joined med school in Scandinavia and being amazed by the proportion of young women in his year. I don't get where people are picking up the stereotypes from though. There's plenty of female empowerment stuff in kid's books, and schools are pretty keen to push equality in educational opportunities as well. > IT The thing about IT though is that it's like an unofficial freemason society. You recognize each other by certain rituals and values. It's not just your daughter who'd feel outside, grown men who aren't in the club will also feel a bit foreign. And in fact this is the case with a lot of skilled professions. Say you took her to a lawyer's chambers? Why would she feel any more at home there?
mjfl 7y ago
> We made a conscious effort not to make her "lady like", that is, like a boy we encourage her to be arrogant (self belief), not to take any crap (fight if she has to), make jokes, and to stand up for her opinion. This is incredibly stupid parenting. You want your daughter getting in fights with boys? Making terrible jokes? This could end so poorly.
- LyndsySimon 7y ago
  I disagree. My daughters are “lady-like”, in that they are feminine. That has different definitions to different people, obviously, but to us that means that she is capable of carrying herself with grace, dignity, and class. They’re also stubborn, strong-willed, and capable. They get the same advice from me as I got from my father: don’t start a fight, avoid a fight if you can, but if you have no other choice, fight. Fight hard and win, so there won’t be a second one. We live in a fairly rural area in a very “Red” state, and my 11-year-old is currently saving her money for a new machete. She loves knives and carries at least a good pocket knife everywhere. If she’s wearing jeans, she has a Ka-Bar hunter’s knife. One of my favorite photo sequences of my oldest daughter is a day that began with her winning the “Peach Princess” pageant, followed by the two of us spending all afternoon driving backroads and trails in my Jeep, and ending with her sitting in a booth at a local Mexican restaurant wearing a Spider-Man tee. She had messy sun-bleached hair, wind-burn on her cheeks, and a big smile on her face.
- KaiserPro 7y ago
  > You want your daughter getting in fights with boys? If a boy touches her in a way that she doesn't like, or if someone corners her, I want her to do what any boy is encouraged to do. Fight her way out. (if one boy pushes another, it is expected that the pushee stands his ground. Why should a girl be any different?) I want my daughter to be pragmatic, not passive. Leadership is mostly pragmatic arrogance. (I can make these people achieve more, etc. I don't want her to believe that shes the only person to lead. ) In retrospect, arrogance is the wrong word. > This could end so poorly You wouldn't be saying this if she was a boy. The insinuation that a girl is not as strong as a boy is bollocks. The only thing that is different is expectation. I expect my girl to fucking lay bullies out. Not sit there an take it, because "girls can't punch" or some shit. > Making terrible jokes? not until she's a parent. I want her to make funny jokes
robbrown451 7y ago
You encourage her to be arrogant? Arrogant is not a positive quality. Maybe you are looking for a different word? Definition of arrogant 1: exaggerating or disposed to exaggerate one's own worth or importance often by an overbearing manner 2: showing an offensive attitude of superiority

im3w1l 7y ago

> the current state of dickheads in IT, This is needless and hurtful

krapp 7y ago
But not untrue.
happytoexplain 7y ago
I'm in IT, and don't feel hurt by it. I have a hard time imagining who would feel hurt by a throwaway line that's so very non-specific, especially when it's referring to a phenomenon that's so real and important. I have an easy time imagining who would feel angered by this line, however.
- im3w1l 7y ago
  Oh so now we are playing the insinuation game? Classy
KaiserPro 7y ago
so is a mountain unsolicited dick picks, and constant questioning of skill because someone's got a vagina. but you know, your hurt is more real.

jes5199 7y ago

not all companies have the same culture, maybe you should ask yourself why you’re willing to work with people who you aren’t willing to expose your daughter to

KaiserPro 7y ago
I work at a very nice company. We make sure that people aren't bullied, its a core principle. But I am just one devop in one small company. I have a great many friends from all over IT, and the female ones all have the same problem: dickheads. On github,/hackernews/other change your name to something feminine, stick a profile pick up from https://thispersondoesnotexist.com/ https://thispersondoesnotexist.com/ and experience the dick forcing it's way into your PRs DMs and email.

lordnacho 7y ago

> There was another time when a kid said that girls can't be doctors. This sort of shit is easy to pick up, and it becomes ingrained. Nearly half of doctors in the UK are women. I remember going to see my friend who'd joined med school in Scandinavia and being amazed by the proportion of young women in his year. I don't get where people are picking up the stereotypes from though. There's plenty of female empowerment stuff in kid's books, and schools are pretty keen to push equality in educational opportunities as well. > IT The thing about IT though is that it's like an unofficial freemason society. You recognize each other by certain rituals and values. It's not just your daughter who'd feel outside, grown men who aren't in the club will also feel a bit foreign. And in fact this is the case with a lot of skilled professions. Say you took her to a lawyer's chambers? Why would she feel any more at home there?

mjfl 7y ago

> We made a conscious effort not to make her "lady like", that is, like a boy we encourage her to be arrogant (self belief), not to take any crap (fight if she has to), make jokes, and to stand up for her opinion. This is incredibly stupid parenting. You want your daughter getting in fights with boys? Making terrible jokes? This could end so poorly.

LyndsySimon 7y ago
I disagree. My daughters are “lady-like”, in that they are feminine. That has different definitions to different people, obviously, but to us that means that she is capable of carrying herself with grace, dignity, and class. They’re also stubborn, strong-willed, and capable. They get the same advice from me as I got from my father: don’t start a fight, avoid a fight if you can, but if you have no other choice, fight. Fight hard and win, so there won’t be a second one. We live in a fairly rural area in a very “Red” state, and my 11-year-old is currently saving her money for a new machete. She loves knives and carries at least a good pocket knife everywhere. If she’s wearing jeans, she has a Ka-Bar hunter’s knife. One of my favorite photo sequences of my oldest daughter is a day that began with her winning the “Peach Princess” pageant, followed by the two of us spending all afternoon driving backroads and trails in my Jeep, and ending with her sitting in a booth at a local Mexican restaurant wearing a Spider-Man tee. She had messy sun-bleached hair, wind-burn on her cheeks, and a big smile on her face.
KaiserPro 7y ago
> You want your daughter getting in fights with boys? If a boy touches her in a way that she doesn't like, or if someone corners her, I want her to do what any boy is encouraged to do. Fight her way out. (if one boy pushes another, it is expected that the pushee stands his ground. Why should a girl be any different?) I want my daughter to be pragmatic, not passive. Leadership is mostly pragmatic arrogance. (I can make these people achieve more, etc. I don't want her to believe that shes the only person to lead. ) In retrospect, arrogance is the wrong word. > This could end so poorly You wouldn't be saying this if she was a boy. The insinuation that a girl is not as strong as a boy is bollocks. The only thing that is different is expectation. I expect my girl to fucking lay bullies out. Not sit there an take it, because "girls can't punch" or some shit. > Making terrible jokes? not until she's a parent. I want her to make funny jokes

robbrown451 7y ago

You encourage her to be arrogant? Arrogant is not a positive quality. Maybe you are looking for a different word? Definition of arrogant 1: exaggerating or disposed to exaggerate one's own worth or importance often by an overbearing manner 2: showing an offensive attitude of superiority