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>Our designers seem more interested in coolness than usability. I think a lot of designers are big on artistry but low on understanding how to help people actua

by achow 7y ago

>Our designers seem more interested in coolness than usability. I think a lot of designers are big on artistry but low on understanding how to help people actually use things. This stereotyping of a profession is becoming a cliché and is being rude towards a profession who has contributed so much to make technology accessible. The example in the blog would not have been intention of the design spec, it looks like more of a failure of test pass when a new device (with different form factor) got slapped with bits designed and tested for another one. This is perhaps a good example of how 'fragmentation devil' is coming back to bite iOS now - which probably is not factored in Apple's product development process.

dreamcompiler 7y ago
Designers deserve every bit of this stereotyping. There was a time when designers were taught to value fitness for use. Now "design" seems to be exclusively about aesthetics. This may be rooted in how designers are taught or simply in how they now practice. Or it could be that managers insist on aesthetics-only, in which case designers need to push back hard. Whatever the cause it's a failure on the part of designers and their profession, and they deserve criticism for it.
- achow 7y ago
  > This may be rooted in how designers are taught or simply in how they now practice No course or degree on interaction design - free online to ivy leagues across the world - teaches 'design for aesthetics' and neither do designers in design departments of startups or of big corporates have design sprints where designs are shortlisted because one is more beautiful than others. Infact 'Design Sprint' [0] 'Design Thinking' [1] are things because design is about problem solving. I understand majority in HN are engineers/developers but that is no reason to make this is a tech echo chamber. [0] https://www.gv.com/sprint/ https://www.gv.com/sprint/ [1] https://www.ideou.com/blogs/inspiration/what-is-design-thinking https://www.ideou.com/blogs/inspiration/what-is-design-think...
  - dreamcompiler 7y ago
    I'll take your word for that, and I'm also encouraged by your comments. Nevertheless it's clear from their products that Apple in recent years became infected with an "aesthetics is all that matters" approach to design. So maybe my general complaint should be narrowed from "modern designers" to simply "Jony Ive and those who emulate him" while still admiring designers who carry on the traditions exemplified by e.g. Raymond Loewy, Ray Eames, and Herman Miller.
- com2kid 7y ago
  > There was a time when designers were taught to value fitness for use. I've worked with designers who I saw specifically laying elements out so as to avoid the issue the article author's wife ran into. There is a problem though. Phone screens are of variable height, and user's can change their font settings. While this issue shouldn't happen with default settings with OEM apps or UX elements, it is not possible to avoid it completely given the exact wrong set of circumstances lining up. Of course, not hiding the scroll bar would be best, and ideal is having multiple affordances, such as partially clipped content and a scroll bar.
nradov 7y ago
If that's true then how did we end up with garbage like "Material Design" and similar flat UI themes?
wool_gather 7y ago
> The example in the blog would not have been intention of the design spec, it looks like more of a failure of test pass when a new device (with different form factor) got slapped with bits designed and tested for another one. Strong disagree with this point. The device from the example is an older one (iPhone 8), and this is a brand-new OS. This was not existing software that's being applied to a new screen size -- it's the other way around. The design spec should have taken the older device into account -- there are still millions of devices with this screen size out there* -- and noted exceptions or adjustments from the iPhone X/11 size. --- *And still being sold. And never mind the SE, another screen size which was still being sold just 12 months ago.
- muddi900 7y ago
  iPhone 8's were one of the highest selling devices the year they came out, outselling the X some quarters. There are millions of iPhone 8 and 7 devices actively being used.
kccqzy 7y ago
I don't understand your point. Shouldn't designers design the interfaces for all devices and screen sizes? If a designer fails to account for the specific sizes of an actually supported device then it is the designer's fault; perhaps just an oversight but nevertheless a fault. If the designer thinks it is fine to only design for iPhone X and above and let older devices suffer from inattention, it is most definitely the designer's fault that has made technology inaccessible to users that might not be affluent enough to afford newer devices.

by achow 7y ago

dreamcompiler 7y ago

Designers deserve every bit of this stereotyping. There was a time when designers were taught to value fitness for use. Now "design" seems to be exclusively about aesthetics. This may be rooted in how designers are taught or simply in how they now practice. Or it could be that managers insist on aesthetics-only, in which case designers need to push back hard. Whatever the cause it's a failure on the part of designers and their profession, and they deserve criticism for it.

achow 7y ago
> This may be rooted in how designers are taught or simply in how they now practice No course or degree on interaction design - free online to ivy leagues across the world - teaches 'design for aesthetics' and neither do designers in design departments of startups or of big corporates have design sprints where designs are shortlisted because one is more beautiful than others. Infact 'Design Sprint' [0] 'Design Thinking' [1] are things because design is about problem solving. I understand majority in HN are engineers/developers but that is no reason to make this is a tech echo chamber. [0] https://www.gv.com/sprint/ https://www.gv.com/sprint/ [1] https://www.ideou.com/blogs/inspiration/what-is-design-thinking https://www.ideou.com/blogs/inspiration/what-is-design-think...
- dreamcompiler 7y ago
  I'll take your word for that, and I'm also encouraged by your comments. Nevertheless it's clear from their products that Apple in recent years became infected with an "aesthetics is all that matters" approach to design. So maybe my general complaint should be narrowed from "modern designers" to simply "Jony Ive and those who emulate him" while still admiring designers who carry on the traditions exemplified by e.g. Raymond Loewy, Ray Eames, and Herman Miller.
com2kid 7y ago
> There was a time when designers were taught to value fitness for use. I've worked with designers who I saw specifically laying elements out so as to avoid the issue the article author's wife ran into. There is a problem though. Phone screens are of variable height, and user's can change their font settings. While this issue shouldn't happen with default settings with OEM apps or UX elements, it is not possible to avoid it completely given the exact wrong set of circumstances lining up. Of course, not hiding the scroll bar would be best, and ideal is having multiple affordances, such as partially clipped content and a scroll bar.

nradov 7y ago

If that's true then how did we end up with garbage like "Material Design" and similar flat UI themes?

wool_gather 7y ago

> The example in the blog would not have been intention of the design spec, it looks like more of a failure of test pass when a new device (with different form factor) got slapped with bits designed and tested for another one. Strong disagree with this point. The device from the example is an older one (iPhone 8), and this is a brand-new OS. This was not existing software that's being applied to a new screen size -- it's the other way around. The design spec should have taken the older device into account -- there are still millions of devices with this screen size out there* -- and noted exceptions or adjustments from the iPhone X/11 size. --- *And still being sold. And never mind the SE, another screen size which was still being sold just 12 months ago.

muddi900 7y ago
iPhone 8's were one of the highest selling devices the year they came out, outselling the X some quarters. There are millions of iPhone 8 and 7 devices actively being used.

kccqzy 7y ago

I don't understand your point. Shouldn't designers design the interfaces for all devices and screen sizes? If a designer fails to account for the specific sizes of an actually supported device then it is the designer's fault; perhaps just an oversight but nevertheless a fault. If the designer thinks it is fine to only design for iPhone X and above and let older devices suffer from inattention, it is most definitely the designer's fault that has made technology inaccessible to users that might not be affluent enough to afford newer devices.