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I know people like to rag on Electron, but without it, I wouldn’t be using something else, my apps just wouldn’t exist. Cool. With Electron your app will onl

I know people like to rag on Electron, but without it, I wouldn’t be using something else, my apps just wouldn’t exist. Cool. With Electron your app will only work on Linux/Windows/MacOS. There are other cross-platform solutions.

CDSlice 7y ago
What other PC OSs are there that actually gets used? BSDs?
- inferiorhuman 7y ago
  What other PC OSs are there that actually gets used? BSDs? Yes. Or Linux on non-x86 platforms.
  - CDSlice 7y ago
    Electron not supporting ARM or other non-x86 platforms is a big problem that I was not aware of. I wonder if that will change with Microsoft starting to make ARM laptops and Apple being rumored to switch to ARM sometime in the future.
    - sroussey 7y ago
      The announcement this whole discussion links to talks about the new ARM support, so I am confused as to what you are talking about.
    - nereye 7y ago
      From https://electronjs.org/docs/tutorial/support https://electronjs.org/docs/tutorial/support: Linux The prebuilt ia32 (i686) and x64 (amd64) binaries of Electron are built on Ubuntu 12.04, the armv7l binary is built against ARM v7 with hard-float ABI and NEON for Debian Wheezy.
      - inferiorhuman 7y ago
        Oh hey, they finally added vestigial Arm support looks at site for Linux. Running Electron apps on Windows for ARM devices is possible by using the ia32 binary. lol Portability is not Electron's strong suit despite all the marketing hype to the contrary.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
  If you're bothering to include Linux in your list of Desktop platforms at all you may as well include the BSDs. Besides, Java works fine on BSDs. Why is it that when modern developers reinvent the wheel they so often manage to do it worse than the last time?
  - hollerith 7y ago
    I doubt that the frameworks (e.g., JavaFX) for creating a GUI in Java work fine on the BSDs. Portable GUI code is harder than portable code without a GUI.
  - CDSlice 7y ago
    > If you're bothering to include Linux in your list of Desktop platforms at all you may as well include the BSDs. I guess, but the amount of people I know that use BSDs are even fewer than the amount that use Linux. Given that Linux is a hard enough sell to support for most apps I doubt that BSD support would be offered even if the framework supports it. > Besides, Java works fine on BSDs. Why is it that when modern developers reinvent the wheel they so often manage to do it worse than the last time? Speak for yourself, I would MUCH rather use an Electron app than a Java app. No need to make sure you have a proper JVM installed AND the apps don't look hideous like 99% of the Java apps I've ever used do.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
      You can quite easily bundle the Java runtime with your application. Many Java applications do this. As a bonus, it will still be smaller than the equivalent Electron application.
      - shrimp_emoji 7y ago
        Except Java applets are a thing of the past while seamless browser/browser-based software is a convenient thing of the present (and probably future[0]) and prioritizing size more than availability and usability is fighting the last war harder than a stranded Imperial Japanese soldier. 0: http://wasm.continuation-labs.com/d3demo/ http://wasm.continuation-labs.com/d3demo/
bluesroo 7y ago
As a solo founder, I doubt there are any other platforms that make economic sense to support, especially if it pulls effort away from the real money makers. Depending on the market, Linux wouldn't even make sense to support for most companies and it's only supported because Electron supports it out of the box.
- inferiorhuman 7y ago
  As a solo founder, I doubt there are any other platforms that make economic sense to support, especially if it pulls effort away from the real money makers. Depending on the market, Linux wouldn't even make sense to support for most companies and it's only supported because Electron supports it out of the box. Well as a user I've already dismissed your app out of hand. Congrats.
  - bitwize 7y ago
    If you have hungry mouths to feed, and whether or not they get fed depends on whether your app makes enough to justify the time and expense it takes to develop it, tell me you would have made a different decision. When development is your livelihood, you target the platforms that make money and only the platforms that make money. That pretty much means Windows and maybe Mac. Anything else is throwing money away.
    - inferiorhuman 7y ago
      tell me you would have made a different decision Sure. As a developer I would've used Qt (or Gtk) because even on the platforms that Electron provides, both provide a much higher quality user experience. You may not care about Linux on non-x86 or QNX or BSDs now, but you've ruled out ever caring enough to consider them. As a user I loathe Electron apps. They're slow, don't respect native mannerisms (e.g. VS Code for ages didn't put titles on windows you minimized), and horrifically bloated. I try not to use free Electron apps (Discord and Slack get used in a browser), and I would never pay for one. So there's that.
      - 7y ago
nindalf 7y ago
I'm perfectly happy supporting 99.99% of desktop users out there using Linux/Windows/MacOS. Users of BSD, Haiku, Redox and TempleOS are sadly not numerous enough to support. It's the same reason any app developer nowadays only supports iOS and Android and not say, KaiOS (honestly, hands up if you've even heard of KaiOS). Don't rag on software teams for making trade-offs based on the resources they have.
- inferiorhuman 7y ago
  Don't rag on software teams for making trade-offs based on the resources they have. It's not just that app devs aren't making non Linux/x86 apps, the problems are that those devs now cannot make non Linux apps. Period. In spite of this lack of portability they're now crowing about how portable and awesome their "cross-platform" app is. All of this to provide the consistently mediocre Electron experience.
  - cweagans 7y ago
    Alternatively, you could roll up your sleeves and add support for whatever obscure OS you want to Electron and then have an entire world of apps available to you. Mediocre and working > not existing
    - inferiorhuman 7y ago
      Alternatively, you could roll up your sleeves and add support for whatever obscure OS you want to Electron and then have an entire world of apps available to you. To what end? The Electron devs have explicitly stated they will reject patches adding support for other platforms. Node is just as bad (letting trivial patches that would fix compilation on FreeBSD just fester). I've already looked at the folks trying to port Electron to FreeBSD and honestly the build system on its own is absolutely horrifying. Qt (even Gtk) is far superior in this regard.
      - cweagans 7y ago
        shrug So maintain it as a third party set of patches. It's not unheard of. For instance, there's a set of Linux patches that improve font rendering. Just because upstream wouldn't accept it doesn't mean that it can't exist. If Qt works for you, use it. Electron works for many people. I don't like Electron apps very much either, but I definitely prefer working Electron apps on Linux than just not having that app available in the first place.

CDSlice 7y ago

What other PC OSs are there that actually gets used? BSDs?

inferiorhuman 7y ago
What other PC OSs are there that actually gets used? BSDs? Yes. Or Linux on non-x86 platforms.
- CDSlice 7y ago
  Electron not supporting ARM or other non-x86 platforms is a big problem that I was not aware of. I wonder if that will change with Microsoft starting to make ARM laptops and Apple being rumored to switch to ARM sometime in the future.
  - sroussey 7y ago
    The announcement this whole discussion links to talks about the new ARM support, so I am confused as to what you are talking about.
  - nereye 7y ago
    From https://electronjs.org/docs/tutorial/support https://electronjs.org/docs/tutorial/support: Linux The prebuilt ia32 (i686) and x64 (amd64) binaries of Electron are built on Ubuntu 12.04, the armv7l binary is built against ARM v7 with hard-float ABI and NEON for Debian Wheezy.
    - inferiorhuman 7y ago
      Oh hey, they finally added vestigial Arm support looks at site for Linux. Running Electron apps on Windows for ARM devices is possible by using the ia32 binary. lol Portability is not Electron's strong suit despite all the marketing hype to the contrary.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
If you're bothering to include Linux in your list of Desktop platforms at all you may as well include the BSDs. Besides, Java works fine on BSDs. Why is it that when modern developers reinvent the wheel they so often manage to do it worse than the last time?
- hollerith 7y ago
  I doubt that the frameworks (e.g., JavaFX) for creating a GUI in Java work fine on the BSDs. Portable GUI code is harder than portable code without a GUI.
- CDSlice 7y ago
  > If you're bothering to include Linux in your list of Desktop platforms at all you may as well include the BSDs. I guess, but the amount of people I know that use BSDs are even fewer than the amount that use Linux. Given that Linux is a hard enough sell to support for most apps I doubt that BSD support would be offered even if the framework supports it. > Besides, Java works fine on BSDs. Why is it that when modern developers reinvent the wheel they so often manage to do it worse than the last time? Speak for yourself, I would MUCH rather use an Electron app than a Java app. No need to make sure you have a proper JVM installed AND the apps don't look hideous like 99% of the Java apps I've ever used do.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
    You can quite easily bundle the Java runtime with your application. Many Java applications do this. As a bonus, it will still be smaller than the equivalent Electron application.
    - shrimp_emoji 7y ago
      Except Java applets are a thing of the past while seamless browser/browser-based software is a convenient thing of the present (and probably future[0]) and prioritizing size more than availability and usability is fighting the last war harder than a stranded Imperial Japanese soldier. 0: http://wasm.continuation-labs.com/d3demo/ http://wasm.continuation-labs.com/d3demo/

bluesroo 7y ago

As a solo founder, I doubt there are any other platforms that make economic sense to support, especially if it pulls effort away from the real money makers. Depending on the market, Linux wouldn't even make sense to support for most companies and it's only supported because Electron supports it out of the box.

inferiorhuman 7y ago
As a solo founder, I doubt there are any other platforms that make economic sense to support, especially if it pulls effort away from the real money makers. Depending on the market, Linux wouldn't even make sense to support for most companies and it's only supported because Electron supports it out of the box. Well as a user I've already dismissed your app out of hand. Congrats.
- bitwize 7y ago
  If you have hungry mouths to feed, and whether or not they get fed depends on whether your app makes enough to justify the time and expense it takes to develop it, tell me you would have made a different decision. When development is your livelihood, you target the platforms that make money and only the platforms that make money. That pretty much means Windows and maybe Mac. Anything else is throwing money away.
  - inferiorhuman 7y ago
    tell me you would have made a different decision Sure. As a developer I would've used Qt (or Gtk) because even on the platforms that Electron provides, both provide a much higher quality user experience. You may not care about Linux on non-x86 or QNX or BSDs now, but you've ruled out ever caring enough to consider them. As a user I loathe Electron apps. They're slow, don't respect native mannerisms (e.g. VS Code for ages didn't put titles on windows you minimized), and horrifically bloated. I try not to use free Electron apps (Discord and Slack get used in a browser), and I would never pay for one. So there's that.
    - 7y ago

nindalf 7y ago

I'm perfectly happy supporting 99.99% of desktop users out there using Linux/Windows/MacOS. Users of BSD, Haiku, Redox and TempleOS are sadly not numerous enough to support. It's the same reason any app developer nowadays only supports iOS and Android and not say, KaiOS (honestly, hands up if you've even heard of KaiOS). Don't rag on software teams for making trade-offs based on the resources they have.

inferiorhuman 7y ago
Don't rag on software teams for making trade-offs based on the resources they have. It's not just that app devs aren't making non Linux/x86 apps, the problems are that those devs now cannot make non Linux apps. Period. In spite of this lack of portability they're now crowing about how portable and awesome their "cross-platform" app is. All of this to provide the consistently mediocre Electron experience.
- cweagans 7y ago
  Alternatively, you could roll up your sleeves and add support for whatever obscure OS you want to Electron and then have an entire world of apps available to you. Mediocre and working > not existing
  - inferiorhuman 7y ago
    Alternatively, you could roll up your sleeves and add support for whatever obscure OS you want to Electron and then have an entire world of apps available to you. To what end? The Electron devs have explicitly stated they will reject patches adding support for other platforms. Node is just as bad (letting trivial patches that would fix compilation on FreeBSD just fester). I've already looked at the folks trying to port Electron to FreeBSD and honestly the build system on its own is absolutely horrifying. Qt (even Gtk) is far superior in this regard.
    - cweagans 7y ago
      shrug So maintain it as a third party set of patches. It's not unheard of. For instance, there's a set of Linux patches that improve font rendering. Just because upstream wouldn't accept it doesn't mean that it can't exist. If Qt works for you, use it. Electron works for many people. I don't like Electron apps very much either, but I definitely prefer working Electron apps on Linux than just not having that app available in the first place.