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Compared to most European countries, US doesn't really feel like a first world country anymore. As a lower class member, your life would be drastically worse in

Compared to most European countries, US doesn't really feel like a first world country anymore. As a lower class member, your life would be drastically worse in US than Europe. As a middle class member it would also be much easier to lose your position, just have some health issue and you'll see how fast it takes to burn your life savings.

_iyig 7y ago
>As a middle class member it would also be much easier to lose your position, just have some health issue and you'll see how fast it takes to burn your life savings. I am currently in that exact position. I have very bad RSI and can no longer write software full-time. On better days, I can drive and do errands. I've spend roughly $40k out of pocket on treatment so far, and my COBRA health insurance runs out in a year. I had looked into speech-to-text, but now I have bad TMJ syndrome and talking is difficult. I'm honestly very afraid for my future.
- skinnymuch 7y ago
  Damn I know someone in SV who never types on a keyboard. Everything is speech to text. However if you’re getting issues with your mouth too. I’m really sorry.
- yardie 7y ago
  I’m a developer with mild RSI. I moved from pure software dev to devops. There is still some coding but most of it is automated. Now I’m mostly point and click.
seibelj 7y ago
> At the end of 2016, the rate of unemployment among young people was 42.91% [in Spain] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youth_unemployment_in_Spain#Current_statistics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youth_unemployment_in_Spain#... Not everything is unicorns and roses in Europe. They have massive structural issues.
- point78 7y ago
  Those are ages 15 - 24 and the numbers are a little better now. Cost of living is so low where unemployment is highest that it's not the end of the world. Still free health care and education.
  - suaveybloke 7y ago
    Pedantic point I know - but it's only 'free' at the point of access, it still has to be paid for by the taxpayer.
    - marcosdumay 7y ago
      Well, it isn't paid by the unemployed, and it doesn't impose exorbitant costs to unlucky people.
      - TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
        Or bankrupt anyone.
    - dijit 7y ago
      Heh, Ben Shapiro likes to make a point of "liberals" expecting his wife to work for free. Yes, in the majority of societies "free" healthcare is free at point of access and subsidised by taxes. Much like trash collection or road renovations. It's underlying infrastructure for a healthy society. FWIW the US actually pays more taxes towards healthcare than europe, but that's because your medical industry is price fixing and gauging.[0] [0]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/10/16/americans-already-pay-gigantic-hidden-health-care-tax-economists-say/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/10/16/americans...
    - sdwa 7y ago
      You're right, it is pedantic, it goes without saying that nobody is suggesting that Europeans have figured out how to bypass the laws of thermodynamics to generate free healthcare in the most literal sense.
helpPeople 7y ago
I felt the opposite when I visited Europe. Everything is small in Europe, people seem to have bare minimums. I suppose it's all about perception. Edit- it seems like it depends on which quality metrics you use. I used "Stuff", other users choose life expectancy, and vacation time.
- ilikehurdles 7y ago
  The amount of vacation time one receives and the amount of money one spends on health care and education isn’t something that can be chalked up to perception.
- tjr225 7y ago
  And yet most European countries have a greater life expectancy than the United States: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expe... If you consider "life" as a bare minimum, we are worse off.
- Sharlin 7y ago
  Indeed. My perception is that well-off Americans have ridiculously excessive unsustainable lifestyles, with superfluously large cars, houses, whatever. And at the same time your poor have much less than those bare minimums that you mention.
  - weberc2 7y ago
    It’s not just the very wealthy. The middle class in America also enjoy a much nicer standard of living than in Europe. Have a gander at the cost of living indices and there are very few categories where the US doesn’t fare better (and often dramatically better). Not to mention the takehome pay (post-pension, post-healthcare) are quite often 30-40% larger for working professionals. I think we still need a stronger social safety net, but Europe is not so dramatically better than the US as this thread makes it out to be.
    - Sharlin 7y ago
pjc50 7y ago
Someone else on HN made the same comment recently about the California power shutoffs. To me it seems that the US is becoming a Latin American country, driven by the same forces that apply south of the border. The reasons that created the endless drug war and the original "banana republics" ruled by the United Fruit Company.
hestipod 7y ago
This is me. Bad surgery and a failure of all the supposed support systems to help has ruined my life. Burned nearly everything I earned for my future. I've tried to get out of the US back to Europe where I lived before but the very losses I incurred here in health and financial security keep me from immigrating. The usual responses are victim blaming by nationalists, suggestions to pray from the religious, and "get a job" (ignoring all the health limitations I have explained as if I am making them up) from about everyone else as they deconstruct what THEY would do in their imagination. As if I would choose this life if I had better choices. I'll die in mid 40s because of this and if I was born in an actual first world nation with social systems I wouldn't have to. So add me too the statistics. You cant take away someone's health, career, life, and leave them in constant pain for years and years, deny them assistance, and then expect them to live like any young/healthy person fighting in the grind for the "right" to pay for life, and then act shocked when they are forced to opt out of life. But if you bring this up to people all they have is the idea of locking you up in a mental hospital and adding more 6-7 figure bills. I want to live. America isn't going to let me. Most days anymore I am resigned to it and glad it will be over...but some I am angry af. The only thing I will miss of this miserable place is my cat, the only good thing in my life, and I cannot even assure her future here as the people I live with aren't responsible and nobody adopts around here. Maybe I will win the lotto before end of year and can move us both abroad.
- arethuza 7y ago
  Did you realise that risk when you emigrated to the United States?
  - hestipod 7y ago
    I was born in the USA...lived abroad for a time...had to return to the USA as my health deteriorated as a result of the American surgeries, which resulted in work aspect of European immigration failing, and then fiancee abandoned me right before our marriage so I had no legal way to stay. I never wanted to return to America. My life would never be amazing because of what was done to my health, but it was much better there. Here it's a dead end for sure.

_iyig 7y ago

>As a middle class member it would also be much easier to lose your position, just have some health issue and you'll see how fast it takes to burn your life savings. I am currently in that exact position. I have very bad RSI and can no longer write software full-time. On better days, I can drive and do errands. I've spend roughly $40k out of pocket on treatment so far, and my COBRA health insurance runs out in a year. I had looked into speech-to-text, but now I have bad TMJ syndrome and talking is difficult. I'm honestly very afraid for my future.

skinnymuch 7y ago
Damn I know someone in SV who never types on a keyboard. Everything is speech to text. However if you’re getting issues with your mouth too. I’m really sorry.
yardie 7y ago
I’m a developer with mild RSI. I moved from pure software dev to devops. There is still some coding but most of it is automated. Now I’m mostly point and click.

seibelj 7y ago

> At the end of 2016, the rate of unemployment among young people was 42.91% [in Spain] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youth_unemployment_in_Spain#Current_statistics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youth_unemployment_in_Spain#... Not everything is unicorns and roses in Europe. They have massive structural issues.

point78 7y ago
Those are ages 15 - 24 and the numbers are a little better now. Cost of living is so low where unemployment is highest that it's not the end of the world. Still free health care and education.
- suaveybloke 7y ago
  Pedantic point I know - but it's only 'free' at the point of access, it still has to be paid for by the taxpayer.
  - marcosdumay 7y ago
    Well, it isn't paid by the unemployed, and it doesn't impose exorbitant costs to unlucky people.
    - TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
      Or bankrupt anyone.
  - dijit 7y ago
    Heh, Ben Shapiro likes to make a point of "liberals" expecting his wife to work for free. Yes, in the majority of societies "free" healthcare is free at point of access and subsidised by taxes. Much like trash collection or road renovations. It's underlying infrastructure for a healthy society. FWIW the US actually pays more taxes towards healthcare than europe, but that's because your medical industry is price fixing and gauging.[0] [0]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/10/16/americans-already-pay-gigantic-hidden-health-care-tax-economists-say/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/10/16/americans...
  - sdwa 7y ago
    You're right, it is pedantic, it goes without saying that nobody is suggesting that Europeans have figured out how to bypass the laws of thermodynamics to generate free healthcare in the most literal sense.

helpPeople 7y ago

I felt the opposite when I visited Europe. Everything is small in Europe, people seem to have bare minimums. I suppose it's all about perception. Edit- it seems like it depends on which quality metrics you use. I used "Stuff", other users choose life expectancy, and vacation time.

ilikehurdles 7y ago
The amount of vacation time one receives and the amount of money one spends on health care and education isn’t something that can be chalked up to perception.
tjr225 7y ago
And yet most European countries have a greater life expectancy than the United States: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expe... If you consider "life" as a bare minimum, we are worse off.
Sharlin 7y ago
Indeed. My perception is that well-off Americans have ridiculously excessive unsustainable lifestyles, with superfluously large cars, houses, whatever. And at the same time your poor have much less than those bare minimums that you mention.
- weberc2 7y ago
  It’s not just the very wealthy. The middle class in America also enjoy a much nicer standard of living than in Europe. Have a gander at the cost of living indices and there are very few categories where the US doesn’t fare better (and often dramatically better). Not to mention the takehome pay (post-pension, post-healthcare) are quite often 30-40% larger for working professionals. I think we still need a stronger social safety net, but Europe is not so dramatically better than the US as this thread makes it out to be.
  - Sharlin 7y ago

pjc50 7y ago

Someone else on HN made the same comment recently about the California power shutoffs. To me it seems that the US is becoming a Latin American country, driven by the same forces that apply south of the border. The reasons that created the endless drug war and the original "banana republics" ruled by the United Fruit Company.

hestipod 7y ago

This is me. Bad surgery and a failure of all the supposed support systems to help has ruined my life. Burned nearly everything I earned for my future. I've tried to get out of the US back to Europe where I lived before but the very losses I incurred here in health and financial security keep me from immigrating. The usual responses are victim blaming by nationalists, suggestions to pray from the religious, and "get a job" (ignoring all the health limitations I have explained as if I am making them up) from about everyone else as they deconstruct what THEY would do in their imagination. As if I would choose this life if I had better choices. I'll die in mid 40s because of this and if I was born in an actual first world nation with social systems I wouldn't have to. So add me too the statistics. You cant take away someone's health, career, life, and leave them in constant pain for years and years, deny them assistance, and then expect them to live like any young/healthy person fighting in the grind for the "right" to pay for life, and then act shocked when they are forced to opt out of life. But if you bring this up to people all they have is the idea of locking you up in a mental hospital and adding more 6-7 figure bills. I want to live. America isn't going to let me. Most days anymore I am resigned to it and glad it will be over...but some I am angry af. The only thing I will miss of this miserable place is my cat, the only good thing in my life, and I cannot even assure her future here as the people I live with aren't responsible and nobody adopts around here. Maybe I will win the lotto before end of year and can move us both abroad.

arethuza 7y ago
Did you realise that risk when you emigrated to the United States?
- hestipod 7y ago
  I was born in the USA...lived abroad for a time...had to return to the USA as my health deteriorated as a result of the American surgeries, which resulted in work aspect of European immigration failing, and then fiancee abandoned me right before our marriage so I had no legal way to stay. I never wanted to return to America. My life would never be amazing because of what was done to my health, but it was much better there. Here it's a dead end for sure.