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This is stark reminder that we should not take our privileges for granted. We don't think about continuous stream of power through our plugs as a privilege (or

by harel 7y ago

This is stark reminder that we should not take our privileges for granted. We don't think about continuous stream of power through our plugs as a privilege (or at all) but it's not trivial, considering so many might have the latest macbook but not always the power to run it (and to even more people the idea of owning a computer is on the same level as flying to Jupiter).

tonyedgecombe 7y ago
I sometimes wonder if this will become the norm when we green the grid and if so what people will do to mitigate it.
- insomniacity 7y ago
  I wonder if we'll end up with individual home storage, eg Tesla Powerwall or similar. Then you fill it up when there's grid, you use it when there isn't, and you just have to manage the charge level.
  - rubbingalcohol 7y ago
    Or maybe people will move to states that aren't so badly managed that critical infrastructure is unavailable as a matter of course.
    - tonyedgecombe 7y ago
      Most critical infrastructure has its own backup system already.
    - toomuchtodo 7y ago
      Not likely. California has too much to offer most ($3 trillion economy). People will get solar (mandatory on new construction residential roofs now after Jan 2020) and Powerwalls and carry on.
      - rubbingalcohol 7y ago
        Yea RICH people will do that. Everyone else will be living in third world conditions, and that's apparently okay.
        toomuchtodo 7y ago
        It's not okay. PG&E should be nationalized and the infrastructure properly managed and invested in (including burying distribution and high voltage transmission lines), instead of profits being syphoned off for shareholders while the electrical grid crumbles. But we're not there yet (political courage and whatnot), and these are the options available. If you have a better idea for those who want to remain in the state (disclaimer: not a CA resident, no judgement), propose and implement it.
        ColanR 7y ago
        > PG&E should be nationalized and the infrastructure properly managed and invested in (including burying distribution and high voltage transmission lines), instead of profits being syphoned off for shareholders while the electrical grid crumbles. Unfortunately, some of the other comments here make it clear that government corruption is a common cause of similar power shortages in other parts of the world. I don't think your claim that the government would be a better manager is tenable.
        toomuchtodo 7y ago
        US government bodies do not face the same lack of accountability, transparency, and governance faced by South African governments. > I don't think your claim that the government would be a better manager is tenable. I'm unsure how one can make that claim. I'm unaware of any other parts of the US or other developed nations that are experiencing rolling blackouts due to utility mismanagement.
  - PhasmaFelis 7y ago
    That'll just make things worse unless its supplemented with e.g. home solar. If they can't afford to produce enough power, trying to suck down extra power during the uptimes to hold for the downtimes won't help.
Torwald 7y ago
> We don't think about continuous stream of power through our plugs as a privilege It's wealth, not a privilege. And it doesn't stop there. Cell-phone connectivity, broad-band access, "always on". These things are prerequisite to make all those web apps work seemingness. I don't hear a lot of discussion about that. > but it's not trivial Yeah.
- kome 7y ago
  Very good point, let's not talk about "privilege" when in fact it is wealth and income inequality. And about the web is spot on: we should develop for the masses and stop using the last js technology for some silly and useless animation.
Cthulhu_ 7y ago
Walking the dog last night I did wonder, what would it be like if our street lights just stopped working? Not that unrealistic a scenario; I mean our electricity network is pretty solid, but a power outage is a matter of when, not if. Should double check my flashlights.
- reportgunner 7y ago
  This happens nightly in my home village at around 2 am. It's pitch black and very quiet, you can't see anything at all but the stars.
- uxp100 7y ago
  My street lights went out a few years ago. Really a beautiful night, great to experience true darkness in a city. OTOH, walking around was a bit treacherous, sidewalks are not as flat as you think.
- sneak 7y ago
  Street lights are pretty nonessential, tbh. Regardless, I have a small titanium 1xAAA LED flashlight on my keychain, an 18650 red (preserves night vision) LED flashlight in my shoulder bag, and a 4xD white LED maglite in the trunk. Do most people not do this? I can’t see needing them for a streetlight outage, though.
kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
It isn't a privilege. You've been paying for it along with the maintenance and future planning that should have been performed but wasn't. Being "grateful" for having electricity most of the time is just Stockholm syndrome.
- chipperyman573 7y ago
  I don't think they're arguing electricity is a privilege and can/should be taken away (like, for example, a drivers license), rather that we are very lucky to have this constant stream of power that many do not
- solarkraft 7y ago
  Yeah, we're paying for it, but not everyone has the chance to do so.
  - sneak 7y ago
    That’s true, but that isn’t the case in this thread, or with OP/TFA.

by harel 7y ago

tonyedgecombe 7y ago

I sometimes wonder if this will become the norm when we green the grid and if so what people will do to mitigate it.

insomniacity 7y ago
I wonder if we'll end up with individual home storage, eg Tesla Powerwall or similar. Then you fill it up when there's grid, you use it when there isn't, and you just have to manage the charge level.
- rubbingalcohol 7y ago
  Or maybe people will move to states that aren't so badly managed that critical infrastructure is unavailable as a matter of course.
  - tonyedgecombe 7y ago
    Most critical infrastructure has its own backup system already.
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    Not likely. California has too much to offer most ($3 trillion economy). People will get solar (mandatory on new construction residential roofs now after Jan 2020) and Powerwalls and carry on.
    - rubbingalcohol 7y ago
      Yea RICH people will do that. Everyone else will be living in third world conditions, and that's apparently okay.
      - toomuchtodo 7y ago
        It's not okay. PG&E should be nationalized and the infrastructure properly managed and invested in (including burying distribution and high voltage transmission lines), instead of profits being syphoned off for shareholders while the electrical grid crumbles. But we're not there yet (political courage and whatnot), and these are the options available. If you have a better idea for those who want to remain in the state (disclaimer: not a CA resident, no judgement), propose and implement it.
        ColanR 7y ago
        > PG&E should be nationalized and the infrastructure properly managed and invested in (including burying distribution and high voltage transmission lines), instead of profits being syphoned off for shareholders while the electrical grid crumbles. Unfortunately, some of the other comments here make it clear that government corruption is a common cause of similar power shortages in other parts of the world. I don't think your claim that the government would be a better manager is tenable.
        toomuchtodo 7y ago
        US government bodies do not face the same lack of accountability, transparency, and governance faced by South African governments. > I don't think your claim that the government would be a better manager is tenable. I'm unsure how one can make that claim. I'm unaware of any other parts of the US or other developed nations that are experiencing rolling blackouts due to utility mismanagement.
- PhasmaFelis 7y ago
  That'll just make things worse unless its supplemented with e.g. home solar. If they can't afford to produce enough power, trying to suck down extra power during the uptimes to hold for the downtimes won't help.

Torwald 7y ago

> We don't think about continuous stream of power through our plugs as a privilege It's wealth, not a privilege. And it doesn't stop there. Cell-phone connectivity, broad-band access, "always on". These things are prerequisite to make all those web apps work seemingness. I don't hear a lot of discussion about that. > but it's not trivial Yeah.

kome 7y ago
Very good point, let's not talk about "privilege" when in fact it is wealth and income inequality. And about the web is spot on: we should develop for the masses and stop using the last js technology for some silly and useless animation.

Cthulhu_ 7y ago

Walking the dog last night I did wonder, what would it be like if our street lights just stopped working? Not that unrealistic a scenario; I mean our electricity network is pretty solid, but a power outage is a matter of when, not if. Should double check my flashlights.

reportgunner 7y ago
This happens nightly in my home village at around 2 am. It's pitch black and very quiet, you can't see anything at all but the stars.
uxp100 7y ago
My street lights went out a few years ago. Really a beautiful night, great to experience true darkness in a city. OTOH, walking around was a bit treacherous, sidewalks are not as flat as you think.
sneak 7y ago
Street lights are pretty nonessential, tbh. Regardless, I have a small titanium 1xAAA LED flashlight on my keychain, an 18650 red (preserves night vision) LED flashlight in my shoulder bag, and a 4xD white LED maglite in the trunk. Do most people not do this? I can’t see needing them for a streetlight outage, though.

kevin_thibedeau 7y ago

It isn't a privilege. You've been paying for it along with the maintenance and future planning that should have been performed but wasn't. Being "grateful" for having electricity most of the time is just Stockholm syndrome.

chipperyman573 7y ago
I don't think they're arguing electricity is a privilege and can/should be taken away (like, for example, a drivers license), rather that we are very lucky to have this constant stream of power that many do not
solarkraft 7y ago
Yeah, we're paying for it, but not everyone has the chance to do so.
- sneak 7y ago
  That’s true, but that isn’t the case in this thread, or with OP/TFA.