6 ms·

"The price at the pump was more than $4 a gallon in Vista, Calif., when Scott Hissem recently embarked on a trip to Texas [...] Gasoline cost just $2 and change

by burfog 7y ago

"The price at the pump was more than $4 a gallon in Vista, Calif., when Scott Hissem recently embarked on a trip to Texas [...] Gasoline cost just $2 and change. The gap has Mr. Hissem considering a move to escape California's high cost of living." Texans have noticed that people arrive from California, and then start voting to turn Texas into California. There seems to be no awareness of the connection between policy and the cost of living.

lotsofpulp 7y ago
Perhaps there is more to life than consumption.
- ALittleLight 7y ago
  Then stay in California and enjoy it.
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    Unfortunately, the effects of consumption aren’t contained to where (and when) one consumes.
    - turtlecloud 7y ago
      That’s why we need to enforce borders.
      - Fricken 7y ago
        How do you keep emissions within borders?
        beisner 7y ago
        I mean, if the wall is high enough....
        Supermancho 7y ago
        That's a derail from the discussion topic. Not that it isn't an important topic, just not relevant.
        Johnny555 7y ago
        It seems very on topic and relevant to the discussion. The preceding posts were: Unfortunately, the effects of consumption aren’t contained to where (and when) one consumes That’s why we need to enforce borders So pointing out that the emissions (one side effect of unlimited consumption) aren't stopped by border control or a wall seems to be completely on topic.
      - hootbootscoot 7y ago
        ...says a guy from a country that basically created the Mexican cartels out of thin air via the War on (some) Drugs. Which "most lucrative market on earth" do you suppose they service? You should really do a bit of additional research on: The Monroe Doctrine. Henry Kissinger, Salvador Allende & Pinochet. United Fruit & Guatemala, and the list goes on... We are ONE singular species and the climate crisis ain't the elephants or squirrels fault my friend. Then there's this thing called a global market, but I defer to your urge to hide under the covers and suck your thumb instead of engaging with the real world.
        dmix 7y ago
        > ...says a guy from a country that basically created the Mexican cartels out of thin air via the War on (some) Drugs. Drugs are illegal in far more countries than the US.
        dang 7y ago
        Would you please stop posting in the flamewar style to HN? You've been doing it repeatedly and it's not what this site is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - knolax 7y ago
        Between Texas and California?
- flyinglizard 7y ago
  Consumption drives a lot of valuable things. Like tax revenue, or research of semiconductor lithography processes which are later used to build medical devices and most other things. If someone consumes, someone on the other hand necessarily produces. The other large driver to many of those things is war. I’d rather have consumption.
thanhhaimai 7y ago
This is California gas price break down for August 2019 [1]: ======================== Aug 26 Branded Unbranded Distribution Costs, Marketing Costs and Profits $0.410 $0.650 Crude Oil Costs $1.430 $1.430 Refinery Cost and Profit $0.850 $0.610 State Underground Storage Tank Fee $0.020 $0.020 State and Local Tax $0.076 $0.076 State Excise Tax $0.473 $0.473 Federal Excise Tax $0.184 $0.184 Retail Prices $3.440 $3.440 ======================== Total State tax: 0.02 + 0.076 + 0.473 = 0.569 California high gas price might have more things to do with location, affordability, and demand than what people are willing to attribute to it. The breakdown shows that California does have high gas tax, but it's not $2 high. Even within the Bay Area, I can see $1 price swing between the rich neighborhoods and other neighborhoods. Driving from SF to LA, and you can also see the price swing through different town. Some parts in LA county often have higher than $5/gallon. I'm guilty on multiple occasions when I just pull up to the closest gas stations and fill up without checking if I can save a bit more somewhere else. When half of your town earns at least $250K a year, the gas stations can jack up the price without being afraid of losing customers. [1] https://ww2.energy.ca.gov/almanac/transportation_data/gasoline/margins/index_cms.php https://ww2.energy.ca.gov/almanac/transportation_data/gasoli...
- dmix 7y ago
  Rent and real estate prices influencing gas prices are also a large part due to the CA/SF gov... Texas builds way more buildings and makes much better use of space. Not to mention the additional costs of running the business and employing people, which are also added to all of their supply chains. It adds up. I remember moving to SF and being shocked I was getting taxed the same rate as living in Toronto, but that doesnt include health care or nearly as much benefits as Canada. Canada gets a lot of heat from Americans for being 'socialist' but there's plenty of counter examples, Toronto builds 100x more buildings than SF, our corporate tax is way lower than US, our ratio of economic immigrants:family migration is significantly higher, our banks/governments have been more fiscally conservative, etc. Plus Canada ranks higher on economic freedom index than America (8th vs 17th): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom I hope this perception that the US is a market economy starts to change. A state-by-state distinction is much better. California is always the leading example of this change and the best signal of where the US is heading, as other US states seem to copy California for some reason.
IvyMike 7y ago
> Texans have noticed that people arrive from California, and then start voting to turn Texas into California. There seems to be no awareness of the connection between policy and the cost of living. Is that actually true? They are a self selecting group, not a random sample, and probably conservative if they hold views that would cause them to leave a liberal state. The one piece of data I've seen is that had native Texans been the only ones to vote, Beto would have won. https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2018/11/09/native-texans-voted-for-native-texan-beto-o-rourke-transplants-went-for-ted-cruz-exit-poll-shows/ https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2018/11/09/native-t...
- mmmeff 7y ago
  I lived in LA for a while and knew a few very liberal friends that moved to Austin because of the cheaper cost of living, for what its worth.
- masonic 7y ago
  Is that actually true? Absolutely. California was the same way 50 years ago. It didn't turn blue for most statewide candidates until 1992. A popular bumper sticker in the 1980s was, "Welcome to California. Now, go home."
- masonic 7y ago
  had native Texans been the only ones to vote, Beto would have won I don't believe that for a second. First of all it's a poll, not an analysis of actual turnout, and neither methodology nor numbers of pollees are given. Secondly, no way do 99% of native Texans even respond to a media pollster.
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > and probably conservative if they hold views that would cause them to leave a liberal state. People move out of California because of affordability more than ideology, just like people move to California more for economic opportunity than ideology. (It's true that the realization of ideology through policy affects both affordability and economic opportunity, but people moving because of the conditions on either of those dimensions are often not motivated by ideology.
dmix 7y ago
This is why I want to move to TX and help support the reason why Texas is good. All of these stories about CA people moving there worries me though. Not sure what a good plan B is that's not in a southern state with a backwards economy.
rolltiide 7y ago
> Texans have noticed that people arrive from California, and then start voting to turn Texas into California Its only a matter of time before people just ignore the idea from 13 east coast colonies trying to avoid population centers driving policy unilaterally and continent wide. One ideology lives in sparsely populated counties and only barely has consensus in even those counties (usually just slightly more than 50%). Whereas the other ideology simply does have the numbers and if a tiny fraction of them could stand living in the middle of nowhere for 18 months they could vote the entire country their way forever.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

by burfog 7y ago

lotsofpulp 7y ago

Perhaps there is more to life than consumption.

ALittleLight 7y ago
Then stay in California and enjoy it.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  Unfortunately, the effects of consumption aren’t contained to where (and when) one consumes.
  - turtlecloud 7y ago
    That’s why we need to enforce borders.
    - Fricken 7y ago
      How do you keep emissions within borders?
      - beisner 7y ago
        I mean, if the wall is high enough....
      - Supermancho 7y ago
        That's a derail from the discussion topic. Not that it isn't an important topic, just not relevant.
        Johnny555 7y ago
        It seems very on topic and relevant to the discussion. The preceding posts were: Unfortunately, the effects of consumption aren’t contained to where (and when) one consumes That’s why we need to enforce borders So pointing out that the emissions (one side effect of unlimited consumption) aren't stopped by border control or a wall seems to be completely on topic.
    - hootbootscoot 7y ago
      ...says a guy from a country that basically created the Mexican cartels out of thin air via the War on (some) Drugs. Which "most lucrative market on earth" do you suppose they service? You should really do a bit of additional research on: The Monroe Doctrine. Henry Kissinger, Salvador Allende & Pinochet. United Fruit & Guatemala, and the list goes on... We are ONE singular species and the climate crisis ain't the elephants or squirrels fault my friend. Then there's this thing called a global market, but I defer to your urge to hide under the covers and suck your thumb instead of engaging with the real world.
      - dmix 7y ago
        > ...says a guy from a country that basically created the Mexican cartels out of thin air via the War on (some) Drugs. Drugs are illegal in far more countries than the US.
      - dang 7y ago
        Would you please stop posting in the flamewar style to HN? You've been doing it repeatedly and it's not what this site is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - knolax 7y ago
      Between Texas and California?
flyinglizard 7y ago
Consumption drives a lot of valuable things. Like tax revenue, or research of semiconductor lithography processes which are later used to build medical devices and most other things. If someone consumes, someone on the other hand necessarily produces. The other large driver to many of those things is war. I’d rather have consumption.

thanhhaimai 7y ago

This is California gas price break down for August 2019 [1]: ======================== Aug 26 Branded Unbranded Distribution Costs, Marketing Costs and Profits $0.410 $0.650 Crude Oil Costs $1.430 $1.430 Refinery Cost and Profit $0.850 $0.610 State Underground Storage Tank Fee $0.020 $0.020 State and Local Tax $0.076 $0.076 State Excise Tax $0.473 $0.473 Federal Excise Tax $0.184 $0.184 Retail Prices $3.440 $3.440 ======================== Total State tax: 0.02 + 0.076 + 0.473 = 0.569 California high gas price might have more things to do with location, affordability, and demand than what people are willing to attribute to it. The breakdown shows that California does have high gas tax, but it's not $2 high. Even within the Bay Area, I can see $1 price swing between the rich neighborhoods and other neighborhoods. Driving from SF to LA, and you can also see the price swing through different town. Some parts in LA county often have higher than $5/gallon. I'm guilty on multiple occasions when I just pull up to the closest gas stations and fill up without checking if I can save a bit more somewhere else. When half of your town earns at least $250K a year, the gas stations can jack up the price without being afraid of losing customers. [1] https://ww2.energy.ca.gov/almanac/transportation_data/gasoline/margins/index_cms.php https://ww2.energy.ca.gov/almanac/transportation_data/gasoli...

dmix 7y ago
Rent and real estate prices influencing gas prices are also a large part due to the CA/SF gov... Texas builds way more buildings and makes much better use of space. Not to mention the additional costs of running the business and employing people, which are also added to all of their supply chains. It adds up. I remember moving to SF and being shocked I was getting taxed the same rate as living in Toronto, but that doesnt include health care or nearly as much benefits as Canada. Canada gets a lot of heat from Americans for being 'socialist' but there's plenty of counter examples, Toronto builds 100x more buildings than SF, our corporate tax is way lower than US, our ratio of economic immigrants:family migration is significantly higher, our banks/governments have been more fiscally conservative, etc. Plus Canada ranks higher on economic freedom index than America (8th vs 17th): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom I hope this perception that the US is a market economy starts to change. A state-by-state distinction is much better. California is always the leading example of this change and the best signal of where the US is heading, as other US states seem to copy California for some reason.

IvyMike 7y ago

> Texans have noticed that people arrive from California, and then start voting to turn Texas into California. There seems to be no awareness of the connection between policy and the cost of living. Is that actually true? They are a self selecting group, not a random sample, and probably conservative if they hold views that would cause them to leave a liberal state. The one piece of data I've seen is that had native Texans been the only ones to vote, Beto would have won. https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2018/11/09/native-texans-voted-for-native-texan-beto-o-rourke-transplants-went-for-ted-cruz-exit-poll-shows/ https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2018/11/09/native-t...

mmmeff 7y ago
I lived in LA for a while and knew a few very liberal friends that moved to Austin because of the cheaper cost of living, for what its worth.
masonic 7y ago
Is that actually true? Absolutely. California was the same way 50 years ago. It didn't turn blue for most statewide candidates until 1992. A popular bumper sticker in the 1980s was, "Welcome to California. Now, go home."
masonic 7y ago
had native Texans been the only ones to vote, Beto would have won I don't believe that for a second. First of all it's a poll, not an analysis of actual turnout, and neither methodology nor numbers of pollees are given. Secondly, no way do 99% of native Texans even respond to a media pollster.
dragonwriter 7y ago
> and probably conservative if they hold views that would cause them to leave a liberal state. People move out of California because of affordability more than ideology, just like people move to California more for economic opportunity than ideology. (It's true that the realization of ideology through policy affects both affordability and economic opportunity, but people moving because of the conditions on either of those dimensions are often not motivated by ideology.

dmix 7y ago

This is why I want to move to TX and help support the reason why Texas is good. All of these stories about CA people moving there worries me though. Not sure what a good plan B is that's not in a southern state with a backwards economy.

rolltiide 7y ago

> Texans have noticed that people arrive from California, and then start voting to turn Texas into California Its only a matter of time before people just ignore the idea from 13 east coast colonies trying to avoid population centers driving policy unilaterally and continent wide. One ideology lives in sparsely populated counties and only barely has consensus in even those counties (usually just slightly more than 50%). Whereas the other ideology simply does have the numbers and if a tiny fraction of them could stand living in the middle of nowhere for 18 months they could vote the entire country their way forever.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]