6 ms·

Rising California Gasoline Prices Highlight Growing Divide in U.S.

27 points by spking 7y ago

burfog 7y ago
"The price at the pump was more than $4 a gallon in Vista, Calif., when Scott Hissem recently embarked on a trip to Texas [...] Gasoline cost just $2 and change. The gap has Mr. Hissem considering a move to escape California's high cost of living." Texans have noticed that people arrive from California, and then start voting to turn Texas into California. There seems to be no awareness of the connection between policy and the cost of living.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  Perhaps there is more to life than consumption.
  - ALittleLight 7y ago
    Then stay in California and enjoy it.
    - lotsofpulp 7y ago
      Unfortunately, the effects of consumption aren’t contained to where (and when) one consumes.
      - turtlecloud 7y ago
        That’s why we need to enforce borders.
        Fricken 7y ago
        How do you keep emissions within borders?
        beisner 7y ago
        I mean, if the wall is high enough....
        Supermancho 7y ago
        That's a derail from the discussion topic. Not that it isn't an important topic, just not relevant.
        Johnny555 7y ago
        It seems very on topic and relevant to the discussion. The preceding posts were: Unfortunately, the effects of consumption aren’t contained to where (and when) one consumes That’s why we need to enforce borders So pointing out that the emissions (one side effect of unlimited consumption) aren't stopped by border control or a wall seems to be completely on topic.
        hootbootscoot 7y ago
        ...says a guy from a country that basically created the Mexican cartels out of thin air via the War on (some) Drugs. Which "most lucrative market on earth" do you suppose they service? You should really do a bit of additional research on: The Monroe Doctrine. Henry Kissinger, Salvador Allende & Pinochet. United Fruit & Guatemala, and the list goes on... We are ONE singular species and the climate crisis ain't the elephants or squirrels fault my friend. Then there's this thing called a global market, but I defer to your urge to hide under the covers and suck your thumb instead of engaging with the real world.
        dmix 7y ago
        > ...says a guy from a country that basically created the Mexican cartels out of thin air via the War on (some) Drugs. Drugs are illegal in far more countries than the US.
        dang 7y ago
        Would you please stop posting in the flamewar style to HN? You've been doing it repeatedly and it's not what this site is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        knolax 7y ago
        Between Texas and California?
  - flyinglizard 7y ago
    Consumption drives a lot of valuable things. Like tax revenue, or research of semiconductor lithography processes which are later used to build medical devices and most other things. If someone consumes, someone on the other hand necessarily produces. The other large driver to many of those things is war. I’d rather have consumption.
- thanhhaimai 7y ago
  This is California gas price break down for August 2019 [1]: ======================== Aug 26 Branded Unbranded Distribution Costs, Marketing Costs and Profits $0.410 $0.650 Crude Oil Costs $1.430 $1.430 Refinery Cost and Profit $0.850 $0.610 State Underground Storage Tank Fee $0.020 $0.020 State and Local Tax $0.076 $0.076 State Excise Tax $0.473 $0.473 Federal Excise Tax $0.184 $0.184 Retail Prices $3.440 $3.440 ======================== Total State tax: 0.02 + 0.076 + 0.473 = 0.569 California high gas price might have more things to do with location, affordability, and demand than what people are willing to attribute to it. The breakdown shows that California does have high gas tax, but it's not $2 high. Even within the Bay Area, I can see $1 price swing between the rich neighborhoods and other neighborhoods. Driving from SF to LA, and you can also see the price swing through different town. Some parts in LA county often have higher than $5/gallon. I'm guilty on multiple occasions when I just pull up to the closest gas stations and fill up without checking if I can save a bit more somewhere else. When half of your town earns at least $250K a year, the gas stations can jack up the price without being afraid of losing customers. [1] https://ww2.energy.ca.gov/almanac/transportation_data/gasoline/margins/index_cms.php https://ww2.energy.ca.gov/almanac/transportation_data/gasoli...
  - dmix 7y ago
    Rent and real estate prices influencing gas prices are also a large part due to the CA/SF gov... Texas builds way more buildings and makes much better use of space. Not to mention the additional costs of running the business and employing people, which are also added to all of their supply chains. It adds up. I remember moving to SF and being shocked I was getting taxed the same rate as living in Toronto, but that doesnt include health care or nearly as much benefits as Canada. Canada gets a lot of heat from Americans for being 'socialist' but there's plenty of counter examples, Toronto builds 100x more buildings than SF, our corporate tax is way lower than US, our ratio of economic immigrants:family migration is significantly higher, our banks/governments have been more fiscally conservative, etc. Plus Canada ranks higher on economic freedom index than America (8th vs 17th): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom I hope this perception that the US is a market economy starts to change. A state-by-state distinction is much better. California is always the leading example of this change and the best signal of where the US is heading, as other US states seem to copy California for some reason.
- IvyMike 7y ago
  > Texans have noticed that people arrive from California, and then start voting to turn Texas into California. There seems to be no awareness of the connection between policy and the cost of living. Is that actually true? They are a self selecting group, not a random sample, and probably conservative if they hold views that would cause them to leave a liberal state. The one piece of data I've seen is that had native Texans been the only ones to vote, Beto would have won. https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2018/11/09/native-texans-voted-for-native-texan-beto-o-rourke-transplants-went-for-ted-cruz-exit-poll-shows/ https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2018/11/09/native-t...
  - mmmeff 7y ago
    I lived in LA for a while and knew a few very liberal friends that moved to Austin because of the cheaper cost of living, for what its worth.
  - masonic 7y ago
    Is that actually true? Absolutely. California was the same way 50 years ago. It didn't turn blue for most statewide candidates until 1992. A popular bumper sticker in the 1980s was, "Welcome to California. Now, go home."
  - masonic 7y ago
    had native Texans been the only ones to vote, Beto would have won I don't believe that for a second. First of all it's a poll, not an analysis of actual turnout, and neither methodology nor numbers of pollees are given. Secondly, no way do 99% of native Texans even respond to a media pollster.
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    > and probably conservative if they hold views that would cause them to leave a liberal state. People move out of California because of affordability more than ideology, just like people move to California more for economic opportunity than ideology. (It's true that the realization of ideology through policy affects both affordability and economic opportunity, but people moving because of the conditions on either of those dimensions are often not motivated by ideology.
- dmix 7y ago
  This is why I want to move to TX and help support the reason why Texas is good. All of these stories about CA people moving there worries me though. Not sure what a good plan B is that's not in a southern state with a backwards economy.
- rolltiide 7y ago
  > Texans have noticed that people arrive from California, and then start voting to turn Texas into California Its only a matter of time before people just ignore the idea from 13 east coast colonies trying to avoid population centers driving policy unilaterally and continent wide. One ideology lives in sparsely populated counties and only barely has consensus in even those counties (usually just slightly more than 50%). Whereas the other ideology simply does have the numbers and if a tiny fraction of them could stand living in the middle of nowhere for 18 months they could vote the entire country their way forever.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
drak0n1c 7y ago
Newsom tweeting in outrage at rising gas prices soon after signing gas tax hikes is interesting. Aren’t higher gas prices good for the environment and one of the reasons voters wanted him?
- option 7y ago
  I am a CA voter and I do think gas prices should be twice what they are now (e.g. more like western europe). Of course, a change like that should be gradual but steady
- bsder 7y ago
  Well, it's not clear that California isn't getting gouged right now. Saudi oil production is down, and the California refiners have jacked the price out of proportion, IMHO. Personally, I'm quite happy that gas is expensive and hope it gets even moreso. Anything which accelerates California getting off of oil is a good thing. I just wish the increases were gradual and continuous so that they are expenses that can be planned for rather than sudden surprise shocks.
- saboot 7y ago
  No, the outrage is that accounting for gas taxes, the price of gas is still higher than what market analysis would predict. Newsom is studying why (eg price coordination). Most voters supportive of the gas tax, including myself, voted because the revenue is improving road infrastructure and commutes. Until electric cars are available for low income people I don't really care much for statements implying we should actively looking to increase gas prices for the sake of doing so.
  - Gibbon1 7y ago
    California has programs provide grants and financing for low income drivers to by new and used EV's (and hybrids as well). https://cleanvehiclegrants.org/ https://cleanvehiclegrants.org/
hellisothers 7y ago
Non-paywall version via MSN: https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/rising-california-gasoline-prices-highlight-growing-divide-in-us/ar-AAJdUPz?ocid=spartanntp https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/rising-california-ga...
senectus1 7y ago
the current price of petrol in the use equates to about .98c a liter Australian. We currently pay about $1.46 a liter.... so cry me a river US... you get it cheap.
- nuclear_eclipse 7y ago
  The point of the article isn't about how expensive gas is, but how much the price of gas varies between different states in the US. It would be like paying $1.46/l in Sydney, while the folks in Adelaide are only paying $0.70/l.
- Symbiote 7y ago
  Since this story is primarily interesting to Americans, the price abroad per gallon is more helpful. In Germany, the average price is $5.87/gal. The price varies in the EU, but mostly reflecting average income. No one is surprised that it's more expensive in Finland ($6.38) and cheaper in Romania ($4.32). https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/Germany/gasoline_prices/ https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/Germany/gasoline_prices/
  - xyzzyz 7y ago
    Worth noting that with what people make in Romania on average, $4.5 feels like $10-$15/gallon would feel like to Americans.
    - fierarul 7y ago
      Yes, and that in absolute terms people in Romania pay more than people in the US. A comparable price in US would probably be closer to $15. I don't know how to compute this with some public purchasing power parity numbers but I would be curious.
    - cnst 7y ago
      I'd imagine most folks in Romania can also easily get away with never owning a car in their lifetime, without any perceivable negative connotations to their quality of life, whilst it's not really a possibility in most parts of the US, especially in California.
FreedomToCreate 7y ago
As bad as it is, the positive is that alternate methods of transportation are boosted when gas prices go up. The current trend of buying large SUVs to commute an hour or two a day is supported by the cost of gas. Gas prices go up, cars get smaller and public transport gets a boost, congestion goes down, air quality improves and people do more things in there local community. I do understand that the negative effects on people who rely on long commutes to work, but difficult positions can spur positive change if people work together.
- burfog 7y ago
  This is all about consequences of regulation. People buy large SUVs because the fuel efficiency law encourages it. Calculations for CAFE involve the vehicle mass and the area of pavement surrounded by the tires. Large SUVs have an advantage in the calculation. People commute an hour or two because of laws that make it unreasonable to move closer to work. Taxes would reset, fees would need to be paid, and so many people would get their cut of the sale.
  - Johnny555 7y ago
    Regulation is one way to force people to drive more fuel efficient cars (because the less efficient cars will either be priced out of reach or be unavailable completely). But so are fuel taxes as the parent poster pointed out -- make gas more expensive and people will demand more fuel efficiency. I think both have a place -- make less efficient cars more expensive to buy and operate. It's not just zoning laws that keep people from living close to work, some people just don't want to live in a city so they are happy to commute for an hour if it means they can have a 2400 sq foot house on an acre of land. No amount of zoning can provide large numbers of big single family houses on large lots that are also close to large urban work centers. Though I just wish those people would stop complaining when cites repurpose streets for transit and bikes for those that do live closer to work and can more easily use alternative transit.
millstone 7y ago
An interesting idea is a “gas ratchet”: set taxes as a dynamic floor so that the price of gas never decreases. This would increase predictability for businesses, and lead to economic pressures to switch off of fossil fuels.
cryptozeus 7y ago
Just filled up gas in San Mateo $4.39/ gl
- masonic 7y ago
  If people are downvoting you because they think you exaggerate, they should first go to an objective source like Gasbuddy.com.
jwr 7y ago
The elephant in the room, which nobody seems to mention, is that the real price after adjusting for externalities like the climate crisis (largely caused by the burning of fossil fuels), should probably be closer to $10/gallon or even more. I find it strange that we still have articles which discuss the new interesting arrangements for chairs on the deck of our Titanic.
- hootbootscoot 7y ago
  the first sentient lifeform I have seen here today! yay! thank you. you bring me hope.
- chrisco255 7y ago
  The climate crisis being what exactly, other than hyperbole? It's 2019. Not one month this year has been higher than the highs of 1998. Over 30 years have passed since the global warming hypothesis was presented and we have yet to see runaway global warming. Northern hemisphere snowfall totals are more than one standard deviation above average, presently. https://globalcryospherewatch.org/satellites/trackers.html https://globalcryospherewatch.org/satellites/trackers.html There was exceptional amounts of snow in 2018 across the northern hemisphere: https://m.phys.org/news/2018-03-exceptionally-large-amount-winter-northern.html https://m.phys.org/news/2018-03-exceptionally-large-amount-w... We are on track for similar if not higher levels of snow this year. That being said, you should worry more about cold temperatures than warm temperatures, because cold temps destroy crops.
  - pintxo 7y ago
    Guess you did not read the linked articles? From the second (the first is purely about the technical measurements): > „... Examination over a longer period (1980-2017) shows that the total amount of snow in all winter periods has decreased on average. The ice cover on the Arctic Ocean has grown thinner and the amount and expanse of perennial ice has decreased. [...] Extreme weather phenomena including winters in which snowfall is quite heavy, and periods of little snow, will increase in the future. The Arctic area is warming at twice the speed as the rest of the world, and the impact of climate change can already be seen in the Arctic regions. And the changes are affecting the rest of the Earth.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

27 points by spking 7y ago

"The price at the pump was more than $4 a gallon in Vista, Calif., when Scott Hissem recently embarked on a trip to Texas [...] Gasoline cost just $2 and change. The gap has Mr. Hissem considering a move to escape California's high cost of living." Texans have noticed that people arrive from California, and then start voting to turn Texas into California. There seems to be no awareness of the connection between policy and the cost of living.

lotsofpulp 7y ago
Perhaps there is more to life than consumption.
- ALittleLight 7y ago
  Then stay in California and enjoy it.
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    Unfortunately, the effects of consumption aren’t contained to where (and when) one consumes.
    - turtlecloud 7y ago
      That’s why we need to enforce borders.
      - Fricken 7y ago
        How do you keep emissions within borders?
        beisner 7y ago
        I mean, if the wall is high enough....
        Supermancho 7y ago
        That's a derail from the discussion topic. Not that it isn't an important topic, just not relevant.
        Johnny555 7y ago
        It seems very on topic and relevant to the discussion. The preceding posts were: Unfortunately, the effects of consumption aren’t contained to where (and when) one consumes That’s why we need to enforce borders So pointing out that the emissions (one side effect of unlimited consumption) aren't stopped by border control or a wall seems to be completely on topic.
      - hootbootscoot 7y ago
        ...says a guy from a country that basically created the Mexican cartels out of thin air via the War on (some) Drugs. Which "most lucrative market on earth" do you suppose they service? You should really do a bit of additional research on: The Monroe Doctrine. Henry Kissinger, Salvador Allende & Pinochet. United Fruit & Guatemala, and the list goes on... We are ONE singular species and the climate crisis ain't the elephants or squirrels fault my friend. Then there's this thing called a global market, but I defer to your urge to hide under the covers and suck your thumb instead of engaging with the real world.
        dmix 7y ago
        > ...says a guy from a country that basically created the Mexican cartels out of thin air via the War on (some) Drugs. Drugs are illegal in far more countries than the US.
        dang 7y ago
        Would you please stop posting in the flamewar style to HN? You've been doing it repeatedly and it's not what this site is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - knolax 7y ago
        Between Texas and California?
- flyinglizard 7y ago
  Consumption drives a lot of valuable things. Like tax revenue, or research of semiconductor lithography processes which are later used to build medical devices and most other things. If someone consumes, someone on the other hand necessarily produces. The other large driver to many of those things is war. I’d rather have consumption.
thanhhaimai 7y ago
This is California gas price break down for August 2019 [1]: ======================== Aug 26 Branded Unbranded Distribution Costs, Marketing Costs and Profits $0.410 $0.650 Crude Oil Costs $1.430 $1.430 Refinery Cost and Profit $0.850 $0.610 State Underground Storage Tank Fee $0.020 $0.020 State and Local Tax $0.076 $0.076 State Excise Tax $0.473 $0.473 Federal Excise Tax $0.184 $0.184 Retail Prices $3.440 $3.440 ======================== Total State tax: 0.02 + 0.076 + 0.473 = 0.569 California high gas price might have more things to do with location, affordability, and demand than what people are willing to attribute to it. The breakdown shows that California does have high gas tax, but it's not $2 high. Even within the Bay Area, I can see $1 price swing between the rich neighborhoods and other neighborhoods. Driving from SF to LA, and you can also see the price swing through different town. Some parts in LA county often have higher than $5/gallon. I'm guilty on multiple occasions when I just pull up to the closest gas stations and fill up without checking if I can save a bit more somewhere else. When half of your town earns at least $250K a year, the gas stations can jack up the price without being afraid of losing customers. [1] https://ww2.energy.ca.gov/almanac/transportation_data/gasoline/margins/index_cms.php https://ww2.energy.ca.gov/almanac/transportation_data/gasoli...
- dmix 7y ago
  Rent and real estate prices influencing gas prices are also a large part due to the CA/SF gov... Texas builds way more buildings and makes much better use of space. Not to mention the additional costs of running the business and employing people, which are also added to all of their supply chains. It adds up. I remember moving to SF and being shocked I was getting taxed the same rate as living in Toronto, but that doesnt include health care or nearly as much benefits as Canada. Canada gets a lot of heat from Americans for being 'socialist' but there's plenty of counter examples, Toronto builds 100x more buildings than SF, our corporate tax is way lower than US, our ratio of economic immigrants:family migration is significantly higher, our banks/governments have been more fiscally conservative, etc. Plus Canada ranks higher on economic freedom index than America (8th vs 17th): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom I hope this perception that the US is a market economy starts to change. A state-by-state distinction is much better. California is always the leading example of this change and the best signal of where the US is heading, as other US states seem to copy California for some reason.
IvyMike 7y ago
> Texans have noticed that people arrive from California, and then start voting to turn Texas into California. There seems to be no awareness of the connection between policy and the cost of living. Is that actually true? They are a self selecting group, not a random sample, and probably conservative if they hold views that would cause them to leave a liberal state. The one piece of data I've seen is that had native Texans been the only ones to vote, Beto would have won. https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2018/11/09/native-texans-voted-for-native-texan-beto-o-rourke-transplants-went-for-ted-cruz-exit-poll-shows/ https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2018/11/09/native-t...
- mmmeff 7y ago
  I lived in LA for a while and knew a few very liberal friends that moved to Austin because of the cheaper cost of living, for what its worth.
- masonic 7y ago
  Is that actually true? Absolutely. California was the same way 50 years ago. It didn't turn blue for most statewide candidates until 1992. A popular bumper sticker in the 1980s was, "Welcome to California. Now, go home."
- masonic 7y ago
  had native Texans been the only ones to vote, Beto would have won I don't believe that for a second. First of all it's a poll, not an analysis of actual turnout, and neither methodology nor numbers of pollees are given. Secondly, no way do 99% of native Texans even respond to a media pollster.
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > and probably conservative if they hold views that would cause them to leave a liberal state. People move out of California because of affordability more than ideology, just like people move to California more for economic opportunity than ideology. (It's true that the realization of ideology through policy affects both affordability and economic opportunity, but people moving because of the conditions on either of those dimensions are often not motivated by ideology.
dmix 7y ago
This is why I want to move to TX and help support the reason why Texas is good. All of these stories about CA people moving there worries me though. Not sure what a good plan B is that's not in a southern state with a backwards economy.
rolltiide 7y ago
> Texans have noticed that people arrive from California, and then start voting to turn Texas into California Its only a matter of time before people just ignore the idea from 13 east coast colonies trying to avoid population centers driving policy unilaterally and continent wide. One ideology lives in sparsely populated counties and only barely has consensus in even those counties (usually just slightly more than 50%). Whereas the other ideology simply does have the numbers and if a tiny fraction of them could stand living in the middle of nowhere for 18 months they could vote the entire country their way forever.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

drak0n1c 7y ago

Newsom tweeting in outrage at rising gas prices soon after signing gas tax hikes is interesting. Aren’t higher gas prices good for the environment and one of the reasons voters wanted him?

option 7y ago
I am a CA voter and I do think gas prices should be twice what they are now (e.g. more like western europe). Of course, a change like that should be gradual but steady
bsder 7y ago
Well, it's not clear that California isn't getting gouged right now. Saudi oil production is down, and the California refiners have jacked the price out of proportion, IMHO. Personally, I'm quite happy that gas is expensive and hope it gets even moreso. Anything which accelerates California getting off of oil is a good thing. I just wish the increases were gradual and continuous so that they are expenses that can be planned for rather than sudden surprise shocks.
saboot 7y ago
No, the outrage is that accounting for gas taxes, the price of gas is still higher than what market analysis would predict. Newsom is studying why (eg price coordination). Most voters supportive of the gas tax, including myself, voted because the revenue is improving road infrastructure and commutes. Until electric cars are available for low income people I don't really care much for statements implying we should actively looking to increase gas prices for the sake of doing so.
- Gibbon1 7y ago
  California has programs provide grants and financing for low income drivers to by new and used EV's (and hybrids as well). https://cleanvehiclegrants.org/ https://cleanvehiclegrants.org/

hellisothers 7y ago

Non-paywall version via MSN: https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/rising-california-gasoline-prices-highlight-growing-divide-in-us/ar-AAJdUPz?ocid=spartanntp https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/rising-california-ga...

senectus1 7y ago

the current price of petrol in the use equates to about .98c a liter Australian. We currently pay about $1.46 a liter.... so cry me a river US... you get it cheap.

nuclear_eclipse 7y ago
The point of the article isn't about how expensive gas is, but how much the price of gas varies between different states in the US. It would be like paying $1.46/l in Sydney, while the folks in Adelaide are only paying $0.70/l.
Symbiote 7y ago
Since this story is primarily interesting to Americans, the price abroad per gallon is more helpful. In Germany, the average price is $5.87/gal. The price varies in the EU, but mostly reflecting average income. No one is surprised that it's more expensive in Finland ($6.38) and cheaper in Romania ($4.32). https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/Germany/gasoline_prices/ https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/Germany/gasoline_prices/
- xyzzyz 7y ago
  Worth noting that with what people make in Romania on average, $4.5 feels like $10-$15/gallon would feel like to Americans.
  - fierarul 7y ago
    Yes, and that in absolute terms people in Romania pay more than people in the US. A comparable price in US would probably be closer to $15. I don't know how to compute this with some public purchasing power parity numbers but I would be curious.
  - cnst 7y ago
    I'd imagine most folks in Romania can also easily get away with never owning a car in their lifetime, without any perceivable negative connotations to their quality of life, whilst it's not really a possibility in most parts of the US, especially in California.

FreedomToCreate 7y ago

As bad as it is, the positive is that alternate methods of transportation are boosted when gas prices go up. The current trend of buying large SUVs to commute an hour or two a day is supported by the cost of gas. Gas prices go up, cars get smaller and public transport gets a boost, congestion goes down, air quality improves and people do more things in there local community. I do understand that the negative effects on people who rely on long commutes to work, but difficult positions can spur positive change if people work together.

burfog 7y ago
This is all about consequences of regulation. People buy large SUVs because the fuel efficiency law encourages it. Calculations for CAFE involve the vehicle mass and the area of pavement surrounded by the tires. Large SUVs have an advantage in the calculation. People commute an hour or two because of laws that make it unreasonable to move closer to work. Taxes would reset, fees would need to be paid, and so many people would get their cut of the sale.
- Johnny555 7y ago
  Regulation is one way to force people to drive more fuel efficient cars (because the less efficient cars will either be priced out of reach or be unavailable completely). But so are fuel taxes as the parent poster pointed out -- make gas more expensive and people will demand more fuel efficiency. I think both have a place -- make less efficient cars more expensive to buy and operate. It's not just zoning laws that keep people from living close to work, some people just don't want to live in a city so they are happy to commute for an hour if it means they can have a 2400 sq foot house on an acre of land. No amount of zoning can provide large numbers of big single family houses on large lots that are also close to large urban work centers. Though I just wish those people would stop complaining when cites repurpose streets for transit and bikes for those that do live closer to work and can more easily use alternative transit.

millstone 7y ago

An interesting idea is a “gas ratchet”: set taxes as a dynamic floor so that the price of gas never decreases. This would increase predictability for businesses, and lead to economic pressures to switch off of fossil fuels.

cryptozeus 7y ago

Just filled up gas in San Mateo $4.39/ gl

masonic 7y ago
If people are downvoting you because they think you exaggerate, they should first go to an objective source like Gasbuddy.com.

jwr 7y ago

The elephant in the room, which nobody seems to mention, is that the real price after adjusting for externalities like the climate crisis (largely caused by the burning of fossil fuels), should probably be closer to $10/gallon or even more. I find it strange that we still have articles which discuss the new interesting arrangements for chairs on the deck of our Titanic.

hootbootscoot 7y ago
the first sentient lifeform I have seen here today! yay! thank you. you bring me hope.
chrisco255 7y ago
The climate crisis being what exactly, other than hyperbole? It's 2019. Not one month this year has been higher than the highs of 1998. Over 30 years have passed since the global warming hypothesis was presented and we have yet to see runaway global warming. Northern hemisphere snowfall totals are more than one standard deviation above average, presently. https://globalcryospherewatch.org/satellites/trackers.html https://globalcryospherewatch.org/satellites/trackers.html There was exceptional amounts of snow in 2018 across the northern hemisphere: https://m.phys.org/news/2018-03-exceptionally-large-amount-winter-northern.html https://m.phys.org/news/2018-03-exceptionally-large-amount-w... We are on track for similar if not higher levels of snow this year. That being said, you should worry more about cold temperatures than warm temperatures, because cold temps destroy crops.
- pintxo 7y ago
  Guess you did not read the linked articles? From the second (the first is purely about the technical measurements): > „... Examination over a longer period (1980-2017) shows that the total amount of snow in all winter periods has decreased on average. The ice cover on the Arctic Ocean has grown thinner and the amount and expanse of perennial ice has decreased. [...] Extreme weather phenomena including winters in which snowfall is quite heavy, and periods of little snow, will increase in the future. The Arctic area is warming at twice the speed as the rest of the world, and the impact of climate change can already be seen in the Arctic regions. And the changes are affecting the rest of the Earth.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]