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The Shanghai Gigafactory going from breaking ground to production ready in 10 months is staggering. Has anything like that been accomplished in NA in the last 1

The Shanghai Gigafactory going from breaking ground to production ready in 10 months is staggering. Has anything like that been accomplished in NA in the last 10 years?

dmix 7y ago
The Foxconn Wisconsin plant had the full support of the executive branch + billions in welfare from the local/state governments and even then they haven't started to working on it primarily due to the significant business risks and high costs of employing labour in America and general uncertainty around manufacturing anything state-side: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn%27s_Wisconsin_plant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn%27s_Wisconsin_plant Even the Chinese can't build anything in America.
- ur-whale 7y ago
  US is slowly turning into Europe. And all the disadvantages without any of the perks.
- newnewpdro 7y ago
  The Foxconn story is far more nuanced than that. There's been substantial uncertainty in Foxconn's genuine commitment to the project. It's been heavily reported on that Foxconn is notorious for failing to follow through on its promises. e.g. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/27/heres-whats-worrisome-about-foxconns-plan-to-build-a-plant-in-the-us-commentary.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/27/heres-whats-worrisome-about-... There's been some great podcasts on the topic. Last I heard Foxconn kept changing their plans of what would actually be manufactured in WI. Initially it was high-tech state of the art stuff, last I heard their plans had shifted to manufacturing somewhat legacy flat panel display technology. I stopped following the story sometime last year though, at the time it sounded like Foxconn was really shafting WI. It benefits Foxconn to drag their feet in executing on what amounts to nothing more than a handshake deal. The more WI invests in that project the stronger Foxconn's position becomes.
  - zdragnar 7y ago
    Foxconn has purchased a number of buildings, but hasn't quite figured out what it wants to do with them. Simply put, it's a huge, multi-billion dollar global company with many, many more things going on that just Wisconsin, and as such a combination of things- most likely internal politics and / or misaligned management- have slowed down, but not stopped, their plans to expand. For example, they're in the process of purchasing a property in Eau Claire, have delayed their plans for madison and green bay, and have a stated goal of a 2020 opening for the data center portion for the mount pleasant office building: https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/north-america/foxconn-s-shifting-wisconsin-plans-now-include-data-center-and-glass-dome https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/north-america/foxconn-s-... Of course, they're getting a lot more in tax breaks per job created in WI than the original plan was (along with fewer total jobs expected), and it's taking longer, so people are understandably upset. I'm wondering if the new plans- datacenter, plus "innovation centers" and basically white collar service jobs- aren't a better long term deal for WI anyway. We tend to lose a lot of those types to Chicago and Minneapolis / St. Paul, and if they actually pan out might slow that drain. The 13k manufacturing jobs certainly would have been nice, nonetheless.
    - newnewpdro 7y ago
      This related article is on HN currently https://reason.com/2019/10/24/wisconsins-massive-foxconn-boondoggle-is-getting-worse/ https://reason.com/2019/10/24/wisconsins-massive-foxconn-boo... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21350837 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21350837
buboard 7y ago
They can always build factories in china and transport them to US
rland 7y ago
That's my first thought. It seems that the US did things like that a long time ago in an era that has passed us by, replaced by gridlock and petty politics. Or it might just be that most of our growth isn't in things we build, and instead in intangible services. Probably both.
- adventured 7y ago
  You can still do some extraordinary things in the physical space at warp speed in the US. SpaceX is doing exactly that right now with their new Starship rocket. An entire automobile manufacturing plant of that size, in a major economy? Today that can only be accomplished in China, it can't be done in the US or Europe any longer.
Ancalagon 7y ago
maybe not but how many people in china were displaced and what was the human cost and environmental cost?
- manigandham 7y ago
  Human cost? As in deaths?
  - CydeWeys 7y ago
    It wouldn't be that unusual for there to be deaths during a big construction project, especially in a place lacking good safety protections. So it is a reasonable question to ask.
- erikpukinskis 7y ago
  Judging by the photos of the site before construction... maybe 10? There were a couple of rustic structures and an open field.
woodpanel 7y ago
China is full of these stories and it's indeed impressive. But I also often come to think: It's just the power of never ending supply of cheap, un-unionizable labor [1], with no political self-determination and thus close to zero binding building restrictions nor environmental ones. [1] of course, in a socialist state there is a union. One, and only one, that is working for the government.
manacit 7y ago
When we want to, I think it's possible. It's not apples to oranges, but the incidents that come to mind are usually when critical transportation infrastructure fails and is too important to let sit. An example is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-35W_Saint_Anthony_Falls_Bridge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-35W_Saint_Anthony_Falls_Brid..., in which they were able to skip the typical three year timeframe and condense it down to a bit over one year from collapse to opening. For a 10 lane, 1,200 foot bridge with a 500 foot main span, that's not bad! When https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_85_bridge_collapse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_85_bridge_collapse happened, six sections of road were replaced in 43 days, likely a lot shorter than it would have been otherwie. In normal circumstances (e.g. when it's not an emergency), no, and that's by design. If we needed to, it could absolutely be done.
- orasis 7y ago
  Funny, the I-35 bridge also came to mind for me. I used to work right at St Anthony Main and often drove that bridge around the time it collapsed.
xkjkls 7y ago
Have they really hired staff yet? I'm very skeptical anytime Elon places a date on something to be ready.
kmlx 7y ago
"The Shanghai Gigafactory going from breaking ground to production ready in 10 months is staggering." it is. 1. how many died during construction? 2. how many slaves were used?
- pinkfoot 7y ago
  As in actual 'whipped-to-death, sold-as-commodities, separated-from-their-children, paid-not-a-single-cent, worked-to-death' slaves? Zero. But you knew this. So one can only wonder what the point of your hyperbole is.

The Shanghai Gigafactory going from breaking ground to production ready in 10 months is staggering. Has anything like that been accomplished in NA in the last 10 years?

dmix 7y ago

The Foxconn Wisconsin plant had the full support of the executive branch + billions in welfare from the local/state governments and even then they haven't started to working on it primarily due to the significant business risks and high costs of employing labour in America and general uncertainty around manufacturing anything state-side: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn%27s_Wisconsin_plant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn%27s_Wisconsin_plant Even the Chinese can't build anything in America.

ur-whale 7y ago
US is slowly turning into Europe. And all the disadvantages without any of the perks.
newnewpdro 7y ago
The Foxconn story is far more nuanced than that. There's been substantial uncertainty in Foxconn's genuine commitment to the project. It's been heavily reported on that Foxconn is notorious for failing to follow through on its promises. e.g. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/27/heres-whats-worrisome-about-foxconns-plan-to-build-a-plant-in-the-us-commentary.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/27/heres-whats-worrisome-about-... There's been some great podcasts on the topic. Last I heard Foxconn kept changing their plans of what would actually be manufactured in WI. Initially it was high-tech state of the art stuff, last I heard their plans had shifted to manufacturing somewhat legacy flat panel display technology. I stopped following the story sometime last year though, at the time it sounded like Foxconn was really shafting WI. It benefits Foxconn to drag their feet in executing on what amounts to nothing more than a handshake deal. The more WI invests in that project the stronger Foxconn's position becomes.
- zdragnar 7y ago
  Foxconn has purchased a number of buildings, but hasn't quite figured out what it wants to do with them. Simply put, it's a huge, multi-billion dollar global company with many, many more things going on that just Wisconsin, and as such a combination of things- most likely internal politics and / or misaligned management- have slowed down, but not stopped, their plans to expand. For example, they're in the process of purchasing a property in Eau Claire, have delayed their plans for madison and green bay, and have a stated goal of a 2020 opening for the data center portion for the mount pleasant office building: https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/north-america/foxconn-s-shifting-wisconsin-plans-now-include-data-center-and-glass-dome https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/north-america/foxconn-s-... Of course, they're getting a lot more in tax breaks per job created in WI than the original plan was (along with fewer total jobs expected), and it's taking longer, so people are understandably upset. I'm wondering if the new plans- datacenter, plus "innovation centers" and basically white collar service jobs- aren't a better long term deal for WI anyway. We tend to lose a lot of those types to Chicago and Minneapolis / St. Paul, and if they actually pan out might slow that drain. The 13k manufacturing jobs certainly would have been nice, nonetheless.
  - newnewpdro 7y ago
    This related article is on HN currently https://reason.com/2019/10/24/wisconsins-massive-foxconn-boondoggle-is-getting-worse/ https://reason.com/2019/10/24/wisconsins-massive-foxconn-boo... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21350837 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21350837

buboard 7y ago

They can always build factories in china and transport them to US

rland 7y ago

That's my first thought. It seems that the US did things like that a long time ago in an era that has passed us by, replaced by gridlock and petty politics. Or it might just be that most of our growth isn't in things we build, and instead in intangible services. Probably both.

adventured 7y ago
You can still do some extraordinary things in the physical space at warp speed in the US. SpaceX is doing exactly that right now with their new Starship rocket. An entire automobile manufacturing plant of that size, in a major economy? Today that can only be accomplished in China, it can't be done in the US or Europe any longer.

Ancalagon 7y ago

maybe not but how many people in china were displaced and what was the human cost and environmental cost?

manigandham 7y ago
Human cost? As in deaths?
- CydeWeys 7y ago
  It wouldn't be that unusual for there to be deaths during a big construction project, especially in a place lacking good safety protections. So it is a reasonable question to ask.
erikpukinskis 7y ago
Judging by the photos of the site before construction... maybe 10? There were a couple of rustic structures and an open field.

woodpanel 7y ago

China is full of these stories and it's indeed impressive. But I also often come to think: It's just the power of never ending supply of cheap, un-unionizable labor [1], with no political self-determination and thus close to zero binding building restrictions nor environmental ones. [1] of course, in a socialist state there is a union. One, and only one, that is working for the government.

manacit 7y ago

When we want to, I think it's possible. It's not apples to oranges, but the incidents that come to mind are usually when critical transportation infrastructure fails and is too important to let sit. An example is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-35W_Saint_Anthony_Falls_Bridge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-35W_Saint_Anthony_Falls_Brid..., in which they were able to skip the typical three year timeframe and condense it down to a bit over one year from collapse to opening. For a 10 lane, 1,200 foot bridge with a 500 foot main span, that's not bad! When https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_85_bridge_collapse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_85_bridge_collapse happened, six sections of road were replaced in 43 days, likely a lot shorter than it would have been otherwie. In normal circumstances (e.g. when it's not an emergency), no, and that's by design. If we needed to, it could absolutely be done.

orasis 7y ago
Funny, the I-35 bridge also came to mind for me. I used to work right at St Anthony Main and often drove that bridge around the time it collapsed.

xkjkls 7y ago

Have they really hired staff yet? I'm very skeptical anytime Elon places a date on something to be ready.

kmlx 7y ago

"The Shanghai Gigafactory going from breaking ground to production ready in 10 months is staggering." it is. 1. how many died during construction? 2. how many slaves were used?

pinkfoot 7y ago
As in actual 'whipped-to-death, sold-as-commodities, separated-from-their-children, paid-not-a-single-cent, worked-to-death' slaves? Zero. But you knew this. So one can only wonder what the point of your hyperbole is.