7 ms·

Also, pedestrians are walking without caution (staring at their phones) at the highest rate in history. Yes, drivers should be accountable for pedestrian safet

Also, pedestrians are walking without caution (staring at their phones) at the highest rate in history. Yes, drivers should be accountable for pedestrian safety, but no law can absolve the common sense personal accountability of looking before leaping, ahem crossing

bobthepanda 7y ago
The penalty for being distracted should not be death.
- briandear 7y ago
  That’s true with anything though right? Distracted when walking across train tracks? Distracted when on a high cliff hiking? There comes a point where people should be responsible for themselves. Someone walking off a curb doesn’t deserve to die, but that’s the consequence for walking off a curb.
  - bobthepanda 7y ago
    The difference is that train tracks and high cliffs are not generally ubiquitous obstacles to get from A to B, whereas crossing the street is needed to get pretty much anywhere. Pedestrians being restricted to curbs is a blip in the timeline of humanity, it's a very recent development.
ahbyb 7y ago
You'd be surprised (or perhaps not) at the amount of drivers who use their mobiles too while they drive.
- kian 7y ago
  I think what the parent is suggesting is that unless those drivers are driving onto the sidewalk, it wouldn't matter if the pedestrians chose to cross only when a driver was incapable of hitting them, regardless of whether that driver is looking or not. While it is incredibly irresponsible to use a phone and drive (and they should rightly be elevated in sentence should an accident occur), it's also very important to take responsibility for your own safety and not put yourself in life-threatening danger in the first place.
  - my_usernam3 7y ago
    Yeah, I'm curious on what percentage of accidents could have been avoided by the pedestrian. I've always compared car vs pedestrian similar to unarmed person vs gun holder. The unarmed person has the right away ... but he or she is still unarmed and needs to remember that. That being said, I do know of streets that have sidewalks only marked by paint, so unless you're acutely watching each car from each direction, there are definitely accidents that are unavoidable for the pedestrian.
  - AlexandrB 7y ago
    I've seen drivers blindly turn right or left without checking for pedestrians so many times I've lost count. How am I, as a pedestrian, supposed to cross only when such a driver is incapable of hitting me? Only walk at night when there's no traffic?
    - catalogia 7y ago
      There is no such thing as perfect mathematically provable safety. However that's not to say there aren't ways you can improve your odds. Looking both ways before crossing the street, although not perfect, is a pretty good technique. Being wary of cars that aren't pointed directly at you but which are coming in your general direction is a good idea. To this end, doing things like walking on the left sidewalk (or the right sidewalk in the UK or Japan) can help you to be aware of cars that shouldn't be on a collision course with you, but might be anyway. When at a crosswalk with a walk signal active and cars applying their brakes to stop, do you step out in front of those cars with the assumption that they will successfully stop, or do you wait for the cars to make a complete stop before stepping out in front of them? Assuming they'll successfully stop might be reasonable in some scenarios, but an unsafe assumption in others. It's the sort of context-dependent thing you need to be aware of regardless of what any laws written by people say. Be more wary of cars coming down hills than cars going up them. Be more wary of cars when the road is wet or icy. Be more wary of trucks than cars, particularly those that look to have heavy loads, and be more wary of cars whose brakes are squealing. Respecting the laws of man is generally a good idea, but you must also always respect the laws of nature. The laws of man won't save you when you get on the wrong side of nature.
gruglife 7y ago
Totally agree. The amount of times I see pedestrians just go into a crosswalk with zero regard of their personal safety. 9/10 times, they are zoned into their phone.
- quotha 7y ago
  Doesn't give you the right to kill them.
  - gruglife 7y ago
    I am not saying to kill them. Just take a bit more caution with oneself. Obviously, drivers still need to pay attention as well.
catalogia 7y ago
Basically, ensuring that you have the right of way is not the same thing as ensuring that what you're doing is safe. Some people seem to struggle with this concept though. I once heard a limerick about it: Here lies the body of Henry Clay, who died maintaining his right of way. He was right, so right, as he drove along. But he's just as dead as if he were wrong.
triceratops 7y ago
Drivers are also staring at their phones. In fact I see far more drivers using their phones than pedestrians. And it's even more important for a driver to not use a phone.
robbyking 7y ago
Is there any data to support the theory that a rise in distracted walked has directly resulted in an increase in pedestrian fatalities?
taway1234567 7y ago
Please keep in mind that vision impaired pedestrians do exist. It is up to the driver to obey the law and properly yield to pedestrians.
ufo 7y ago
This explanation always shows up when there is a discussion on car safety on HN. However, it doesn't explain why pedestrian deaths have risen more sharply in the US than other countries
the_gastropod 7y ago
The fact that we've collectively been lead to believe it's reasonable for multi-ton metal and glass racing living rooms to be operated at speeds that kill in our neighborhoods—where we live—is pretty nuts.
Johnny555 7y ago
It's interesting to watch this video of San Francisco's Market street from 1906: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q5Nur642BU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q5Nur642BU Cars travel at walking pace, and cars, streetcars, horses, etc all coexist -- pedestrians seem to cross the street at will, not following any signals or staying in crosswalks. I think the reason this chaotic system works (aside from the lower speeds) is because street users expect the chaos, no one relies on a traffic signal to tell them when it's safe to cross, they know that they have to pay attention or they'll be run over (or will run over someone else).
- briandear 7y ago
  Those photos don’t show the death and accident rates. It was chaos. People got ran over by wagons all the time.
- matthewfelgate 7y ago
  Sorry but that is completely wrong. The rate of injuries and deaths on the roads were far worse in 1906 than today.

bobthepanda 7y ago

The penalty for being distracted should not be death.

briandear 7y ago
That’s true with anything though right? Distracted when walking across train tracks? Distracted when on a high cliff hiking? There comes a point where people should be responsible for themselves. Someone walking off a curb doesn’t deserve to die, but that’s the consequence for walking off a curb.
- bobthepanda 7y ago
  The difference is that train tracks and high cliffs are not generally ubiquitous obstacles to get from A to B, whereas crossing the street is needed to get pretty much anywhere. Pedestrians being restricted to curbs is a blip in the timeline of humanity, it's a very recent development.

ahbyb 7y ago

You'd be surprised (or perhaps not) at the amount of drivers who use their mobiles too while they drive.

kian 7y ago
I think what the parent is suggesting is that unless those drivers are driving onto the sidewalk, it wouldn't matter if the pedestrians chose to cross only when a driver was incapable of hitting them, regardless of whether that driver is looking or not. While it is incredibly irresponsible to use a phone and drive (and they should rightly be elevated in sentence should an accident occur), it's also very important to take responsibility for your own safety and not put yourself in life-threatening danger in the first place.
- my_usernam3 7y ago
  Yeah, I'm curious on what percentage of accidents could have been avoided by the pedestrian. I've always compared car vs pedestrian similar to unarmed person vs gun holder. The unarmed person has the right away ... but he or she is still unarmed and needs to remember that. That being said, I do know of streets that have sidewalks only marked by paint, so unless you're acutely watching each car from each direction, there are definitely accidents that are unavoidable for the pedestrian.
- AlexandrB 7y ago
  I've seen drivers blindly turn right or left without checking for pedestrians so many times I've lost count. How am I, as a pedestrian, supposed to cross only when such a driver is incapable of hitting me? Only walk at night when there's no traffic?
  - catalogia 7y ago
    There is no such thing as perfect mathematically provable safety. However that's not to say there aren't ways you can improve your odds. Looking both ways before crossing the street, although not perfect, is a pretty good technique. Being wary of cars that aren't pointed directly at you but which are coming in your general direction is a good idea. To this end, doing things like walking on the left sidewalk (or the right sidewalk in the UK or Japan) can help you to be aware of cars that shouldn't be on a collision course with you, but might be anyway. When at a crosswalk with a walk signal active and cars applying their brakes to stop, do you step out in front of those cars with the assumption that they will successfully stop, or do you wait for the cars to make a complete stop before stepping out in front of them? Assuming they'll successfully stop might be reasonable in some scenarios, but an unsafe assumption in others. It's the sort of context-dependent thing you need to be aware of regardless of what any laws written by people say. Be more wary of cars coming down hills than cars going up them. Be more wary of cars when the road is wet or icy. Be more wary of trucks than cars, particularly those that look to have heavy loads, and be more wary of cars whose brakes are squealing. Respecting the laws of man is generally a good idea, but you must also always respect the laws of nature. The laws of man won't save you when you get on the wrong side of nature.

gruglife 7y ago

Totally agree. The amount of times I see pedestrians just go into a crosswalk with zero regard of their personal safety. 9/10 times, they are zoned into their phone.

quotha 7y ago
Doesn't give you the right to kill them.
- gruglife 7y ago
  I am not saying to kill them. Just take a bit more caution with oneself. Obviously, drivers still need to pay attention as well.

catalogia 7y ago

Basically, ensuring that you have the right of way is not the same thing as ensuring that what you're doing is safe. Some people seem to struggle with this concept though. I once heard a limerick about it: Here lies the body of Henry Clay, who died maintaining his right of way. He was right, so right, as he drove along. But he's just as dead as if he were wrong.

triceratops 7y ago

Drivers are also staring at their phones. In fact I see far more drivers using their phones than pedestrians. And it's even more important for a driver to not use a phone.

robbyking 7y ago

Is there any data to support the theory that a rise in distracted walked has directly resulted in an increase in pedestrian fatalities?

taway1234567 7y ago

Please keep in mind that vision impaired pedestrians do exist. It is up to the driver to obey the law and properly yield to pedestrians.

ufo 7y ago

This explanation always shows up when there is a discussion on car safety on HN. However, it doesn't explain why pedestrian deaths have risen more sharply in the US than other countries

the_gastropod 7y ago

The fact that we've collectively been lead to believe it's reasonable for multi-ton metal and glass racing living rooms to be operated at speeds that kill in our neighborhoods—where we live—is pretty nuts.

Johnny555 7y ago

It's interesting to watch this video of San Francisco's Market street from 1906: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q5Nur642BU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q5Nur642BU Cars travel at walking pace, and cars, streetcars, horses, etc all coexist -- pedestrians seem to cross the street at will, not following any signals or staying in crosswalks. I think the reason this chaotic system works (aside from the lower speeds) is because street users expect the chaos, no one relies on a traffic signal to tell them when it's safe to cross, they know that they have to pay attention or they'll be run over (or will run over someone else).

briandear 7y ago
Those photos don’t show the death and accident rates. It was chaos. People got ran over by wagons all the time.
matthewfelgate 7y ago
Sorry but that is completely wrong. The rate of injuries and deaths on the roads were far worse in 1906 than today.